LA County Fires / Palisades Fire

[Karen-W]

There are many reasons why this is happening, but the most immediate one is high winds.

Los Angeles has a semi-arid climate and is in a drought, albeit a moderate one.

They're not in a drought. The last time they had measurable rain was last May. The rainy season for SoCal doesn't usually start until January and usually runs through April. The past two years LA actually had much higher rainfall than what they receive on average. Some in the media will mislead you into believing they are in a drought because it is the "driest start to our meteorological/rain year ever", but, again, the rainiest part of the season is only just now starting.

Usually the wildfires are more prominent during the fall, but they can happen during this time of the year also.

The increased rainfall the past two years led to an increase in the growth of vegetation, which then dries out during the summer & fall. If it isn't cleared out & properly managed then, by the time January comes around it is tinder dry and will catch fire easily. Then, if there is a major Santa Ana wind event like the one last week, you will get fires. Tuesday night's winds were historical for a Santa Ana wind event and probably won't be repeated for another 75-100 years.

The second super-scooper is back in the air, I believe. KTLA was just interviewing a homeowner in one of the threatened neighborhoods and he mentioned both of them were doing water drops to save their homes this morning.

I heard a little while ago on KTTV that the second super-scooper is still out of service, unfortunately. It sounds like the homeowner being interviewed misidentified one of the planes making a water drop as one of the super-scoopers.

 

[overedge]

I was surprised to see almost all houses raised to the ground.
I am assuming that is because they were not built with materials such as concrete that are more fire resistant.
Not that that would've helped much, as even concrete buildings would have such substantial interior damage, that it would probably be cheaper to pull them down and start again than try to restore what is left.

At those temperatures, concrete will disintegrate too. A few years ago, when there were wildfires in my region, the fires were so hot that even buildings specifically designed to be fire-resistant were destroyed along with everything else

 

[overedge]

Bob Clearmountain, who has mixed or mastered many, many excellent recoreds, lost his home and his studio. https://www.masslive.com/politics/2...rding-studio-destroyed-in-palisades-fire.html

 

[once_upon]

You know what? At this time I'm not interested in politics, whose fault it is or is not. I'm concerned about my brother.

He's lived in West LA since 1990 or so. I've never had him text me with as much concern and actual reporting he's is crying/afraid for his neighbors. I'm getting almost every 10 hours updates. This from a brother who sends me a text about every 6 -10 months.

My biggest request from everyone here to pray for the area.

 

[skatfan]

Usually the wildfires are more prominent during the fall, but they can happen during this time of the year also.

The increased rainfall the past two years led to an increase in the growth of vegetation, which then dries out during the summer & fall. If it isn't cleared out & properly managed then, by the time January comes around it is tinder dry and will catch fire easily. Then, if there is a major Santa Ana wind event like the one last week, you will get fires. Tuesday night's winds were historical for a Santa Ana wind event and probably won't be repeated for another 75-100 years.

This is the general pattern with winter fires much less common.

Even properties with excellent brush management were susceptible this time because the wind speeds overwhelmed everything else. It's possible we are in a new normal pattern which is scary.

 

[Karen-W]

This is the general pattern with winter fires much less common.

Even properties with excellent brush management were susceptible this time because the wind speeds overwhelmed everything else. It's possible we are in a new normal pattern which is scary.

It is certainly possible, though it is not unprecedented to have a wind event like this. There have been other major wind events recorded as far back as the 17th century that were very notable & caused massive fires. The main difference being that LA was far less populated at that time so the impact was not in the billions of dollars.

That's part of what aggravates and frustrates me about the 'climate change' narrative in general - historical weather records only go back, at best, 200 years and the 19th century is considered to have been a "Little Ice Age" with colder weather patterns in much of the northern hemisphere. Looking at the historical data for southern California, rainfall is something that fluctuates due to El Nino & La Nina every year and it's much better to look at 10-yr averages or the entire span of data rather than JUST this one year.

There were a lot of contributing factors and I do agree that excellent brush management likely would not have been enough to save many homes, but there were a lot of other things that are plain government/bureaucratic incompetence - like the fire hydrants being in disrepair for months or the Santa Ynez reservoir being empty since last spring to repair a tear in its cover & the lack of communication between the DWP and the City of LA FD. There was also the slow response by the Mayor/Acting Mayor in declaring a state of emergency until several hours after the fire had started & rapidly spread - the state of emergency wasn't declared until after parts of Pali HS had been destroyed - which prevented the federal government from deploying any military aid to assist (including their own fire response helicopters) until Wednesday.

As more information emerges about this tragedy, the less convinced I am of climate change playing much of a role in what happened. The lack of emergency preparedness & diversion of budget funds away from the most critical needs that any city or county government should have at the very top of the priority list made this far more possible than it ever should have been.

I have more thoughts but those are best left to PI and I have no interest in actively participating in PI these days.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Looking at the historical data for southern California, rainfall is something that fluctuates due to El Nino & La Nina every year and it's much better to look at 10-yr averages or the entire span of dat

It’s quite true, every year us Los Angelenos look to see if there will be a El Niño or La Niña and they said we were going to have a La Niña I thought this year, which seems we are as that is related to more dryness and fires in the southwest. When we have the El Niño, that means we usually have rain storms and the Palisades, Malibu and the Santa Monica mountains all experience mudslides.

Weather.gov- “In the United States, because La Nina is connected to more Atlantic storms and deeper droughts and wildfires in the West, La Ninas often are more damaging and expensive than their more famous flip side, El Nino, experts said and studies show. Generally, American agriculture is more damaged by La Nina than El Nino.”

 

[skatfan]

I'm well aware of El Nino/La Nina having grown up in the LA area. This event was clearly exceptional. There will be massive studies that go beyond cable news shows breathlessly finding those willing to assign blame before the fires are even contained. Personally, I don't find trying to do this right now to be the humane response when so many need to support those in crisis. I have family friends and minister colleagues affected and am focusing on how I can help.

 

[Cachoo]

I was waiting to hear from folks with relatives in Cali at our basketball fan site: 5 homes, 4 gone and the 5th is fine even though the tree right in front of the home is burned to a crisp. Sometimes you get lucky.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm well aware of El Nino/La Nina having grown up in the LA area. This event was clearly exceptional. There will be massive studies that go beyond cable news shows breathlessly finding those willing to assign blame before the fires are even contained. Personally, I don't find trying to do this right now to be the humane response when so many need to support those in crisis. I have family friends and minister colleagues affected and am focusing on how I can help.

I'm sorry, but I also have family who are affected down in Pasadena - and every single one of us knows that ANL has been directly impacted by this week's fires. Saying "oh, we should be focused on the people in crisis and not assigning blame before the fires are even contained" is a choice - a choice to allow the very government bureaucrats responsible for this catastrophe to write those studies that absolve them of their responsibility & blame. But, go ahead, 'climate change' away.

 

[skatfan]

I'm sorry, but I also have family who are affected down in Pasadena - and every single one of us knows that ANL has been directly impacted by this week's fires. Saying "oh, we should be focused on the people in crisis and not assigning blame before the fires are even contained" is a choice - a choice to allow the very government bureaucrats responsible for this catastrophe to write those studies that absolve them of their responsibility & blame. But, go ahead, 'climate change' away.

I stand by my choice. You stand by yours. I'm not sure what your beef is.

 

[Karen-W]

Wow...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1878294266876682571

 

[Cachoo]

Wow...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1878294266876682571

I wonder if this, in any way, fits the definition for terrorism, murder—something beyond arson.

 

[skatfan]

Here’s an instagram reel featuring some incarcerated firefighters in the LA fires. Good work by these guys!

Anti-Recidivism Coalition on Instagram: "These are a few of the nearly 800 incarcerated people currently battling the fires in LA. While this video was taken during the mountain fire, many of these same men are out there right now risking their live

259K likes, 5,461 comments - antirecidivismcoalition on January 10, 2025: "These are a few of the nearly 800 incarcerated people currently battling the fires in LA. While this video was taken during the mountain fire, many of these same men are out there right now risking their lives. We thank...

www.instagram.com

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Wow...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1878294266876682571

I’ve seen Justine speaking recently too, and she has said some very intelligent things. I just was asking the other day what is starting these. I understand how they are spread but as I said before it’s cold here, and the sun is not that strong in January, so I’ve been wondering what has been starting these.

 

[Garden Kitty]

I know there are countless stories of heroes helping others and people pitching in however they can, but I was very impressed by ESPN sportcaster Holly Rowe. I've admired her for being a trail blazer in sports reporting, but she posted on social media that she has room for up to 8 people at her house in SLC and that if anyone was displaced by the fires and wanted to stay, they should message her. She also offered to cover the cost of gas or flights to get to SLC.

 

[Karen-W]

I know there are countless stories of heroes helping others and people pitching in however they can, but I was very impressed by ESPN sportcaster Holly Rowe. I've admired her for being a trail blazer in sports reporting, but she posted on social media that she has room for up to 8 people at her house in SLC and that if anyone was displaced by the fires and wanted to stay, they should let her know. She also offered to cover the cost of gas or flights to get to SLC.

I saw that post too. Very classy.

There is this story as well that is absolutely amazing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877898568293581040

 

[skatfan]

The Pasadena Humane Society is doing everything they can to help care for animals affected by the Eaton Fire. Here’s the link if you would like to donate.

Thanks for this link, I made a donation. Here’s another update of what they’re up to:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02eS9npsqJWuQfnF1PV3HQrmLSYMMuLdUTRTmTSNLodPasDk7JZPz5DY6KGg2jAV6dl&id=100064710879117

 

[Buzz]

What do we know about the LA fires victims?

An amputee and his bedbound son, and a man trying to defend his home of 55 years are among the 11 victims of the Los Angeles fires.

www.bbc.com

 

[Orm Irian]

How is this happening? Even forest fires in the heat of August are controlled better than this.

Why doesn't it rain?

Um. Perhaps you remember the summer of 2019-20, when bushfires larger than some European countries were eating Australia alive for months?

Once a fire gets beyond a certain intensity, it can't be controlled. Some can't be contained. Some can barely even be fought. The firefighters on the ground are doing their best, but fires are unnatural disasters these days and this is what unnatural disasters look like.

 

[misskarne]

Here’s an instagram reel featuring some incarcerated firefighters in the LA fires. Good work by these guys!

Anti-Recidivism Coalition on Instagram: "These are a few of the nearly 800 incarcerated people currently battling the fires in LA. While this video was taken during the mountain fire, many of these same men are out there right now risking their live

259K likes, 5,461 comments - antirecidivismcoalition on January 10, 2025: "These are a few of the nearly 800 incarcerated people currently battling the fires in LA. While this video was taken during the mountain fire, many of these same men are out there right now risking their lives. We thank...

www.instagram.com

I hope that they are rewarded adequately and able to use the skills acquired when they get out of prison. I have heard that some fire departments won't accept them when they get out, which seems short-sighted to say the least.

 

[allezfred]

How is this happening? Even forest fires in the heat of August are controlled better than this.

Why doesn't it rain?

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[TOADS]

On the way home from the casino, I was listening to the news on the radio.

They were talking to an official with Cal fire and they were talking about reservoirs and lack of water.

He brought up that northern CA is at greater risk from future fires because they removed 4 dams that held back lakes because of the salmon. He said this means that there are four less sources of water for aircraft to get water to fight wildfires.

Can anyone out CA way verify that this is true or is this just more pig piling on government officials.

 

[Miezekatze]

My German friend read about a plane colliding with a privately flown drone and wanted to know, whether it isn't possible to block the signal of all privately/unauthorized flown drones in the L.A. region at the moment?

In Germany private drone usage has become pretty restricted, you have to register your drone to be able to fly it and it's very limited were it's allowed (
Her dads drone also got taken down when flying it in Croatia on vacation, cause he entered a forbidden area by accident.)

So she assumed a signal block should be possible to be activated quickly in theory?

Or are private drones not regulated much in the US/California?

 

[Karen-W]

On the way home from the casino, I was listening to the news on the radio.

They were talking to an official with Cal fire and they were talking about reservoirs and lack of water.

He brought up that northern CA is at greater risk from future fires because they removed 4 dams that held back lakes because of the salmon. He said this means that there are four less sources of water for aircraft to get water to fight wildfires.

Can anyone out CA way verify that this is true or is this just more pig piling on government officials.

This is entirely true. The dams removed were on the Klamath River wayyyyyy up in the northernmost part of the state near the Oregon border. Newsom & our then governor, Kate Brown, along with Native American officials from the Klamath Tribe held a special ceremony celebrating it.

Watch: Klamath River reemerges after the removal of four dams - OPB https://www.opb.org/article/2024/10...moval project,miles of newly reopened habitat.

We've had other dam removal projects here in Oregon for this same purpose.

It's not just the dam removal that is a potential problem, it's also the ongoing release of water in many reservoirs to sustain the ecology of the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta. Look up the stories about the Delta smelt.

My German friend read about a plane colliding with a privately flown drone and wanted to know, whether it isn't possible to block the signal of all privately/unauthorized flown drones in the L.A. region at the moment?

In Germany private drone usage has become pretty restricted, you have to register your drone to be able to fly it and it's very limited were it's allowed (
Her dads drone also got taken down when flying it in Croatia on vacation, cause he entered a forbidden area by accident.)

So she assumed a signal block should be possible to be activated quickly in theory?

Or are private drones not regulated much in the US/California?

I was listening to a news report about this yesterday and while I don't know the specifics about drone regulations, the reporters were saying that 1) yes, the drone owner would have been notified & aware of the flight restrictions because 2) the drone owner would have had to manually override the notice about the restrictions from the drone software itself & verified they had permission to fly despite the restrictions.

I have no idea what sort of signal blocking tech there is, but generally speaking here in the US, I don't think any government agency can force a drone down like that - wild guess here but it would be viewed as an infringement of the 4th Amendment's protection against unlawful searches & seizures. It may be something that hasn't been fully litigated yet if there isn't any or much state or federal law on drone usage, so it's possible in the future that signal blocking technology could be implemented, but right now, it does not seem to be in use to that extent here in the US.

 

[Reuven]

Or are private drones not regulated much in the US/California?

FAA answers drone questions

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Saving the salmon is the catchy reason for damn removal, but restoring the natural river ecosystem has much wider benefits. In regards to fires, allowing the water in a drainage basin to be more widely distributed, held in dispersed wetlands, soils, aquifers, and healthy vegetation, makes the landscape more resistant to wildfires.

The dams were also removed because the costs of maintaining them were catching up to the profits generated by their hydroelectric plants.

 

[Vagabond]

On the way home from the casino, I was listening to the news on the radio.

They were talking to an official with Cal fire and they were talking about reservoirs and lack of water.

He brought up that northern CA is at greater risk from future fires because they removed 4 dams that held back lakes because of the salmon. He said this means that there are four less sources of water for aircraft to get water to fight wildfires.

Can anyone out CA way verify that this is true or is this just more pig piling on government officials.

It's mostly more pig-piling, though it is true that it is somewhat more complicated to use the water to fight fires.

State Fire Agencies Endorse Fire Plan To Protect Local Communities After Klamath Dam Removal – Klamath River Renewal

The following highlights several of the firefighting resources KRRC has committed to providing:

• Installation of a “Monitored Detection System.” This new, state-of-the-art camera technology will improve early fire monitoring capabilities in the Basin using high-definition imagery and video transmitted from cameras strategically placed at fire lookouts. The system is monitored by fire personnel at a detection center. Use of this this technology elsewhere has already proven to increase early detection and reduce response times by firefighters.
• Installation of five permanent dry hydrants. Dry hydrants provide a simple and reliable water supply for ground-based firefighting crews to fill fire engines and water tenders and will be located at or near road crossings of large tributaries or boat launch locations to provide additional water sources.
• Staging of self-supporting tanks. These tanks will supplement aerial and ground-based water supplies. They hold up to 5,000 gallons of water and could be stored, erected, and filled rapidly for initial attack activities.
• Identification of aerial river access points (ARAP’s). These ARAP’s will be identified in the former reservoirs (two per reservoir) that meet specific suitability performance criteria to be used by Type 1 helicopters with snorkels. Although the reservoirs will no longer be available to firefighting aircraft, the river itself will provide multiple opportunities for firefighting helicopters.

There were additional reasons for removing the dams besides habitat restoration for salmon and steelhead.

Dam Removal on the Klamath River

“Dam removal is the best way to bring a river back to life. The Klamath is significant not only because it is the biggest dam removal and river restoration effort in history, but because it shows that we can right historic wrongs and make big, bold dreams a reality for our rivers and...

www.americanrivers.org

The four dams didn’t provide flood control or irrigation. They generate a small amount of hydropower, which will be replaced using renewables and efficiency measures. In 2008, the Public Utilities Commissions in Oregon and California concluded that removing the dams, (instead of spending more than $500 million to bring the dams up to modern standards), would save PacifiCorp customers more than $100 million. It will also improve water quality – toxic algae in the reservoirs behind the dams threatened the health of people as well as ecosystems.

 

[Karen-W]

Very good article -

Three Hard Truths About California’s Fire Crisis

Climate change makes fires more dangerous. Government competence matters. And preventing catastrophic fires requires expensive, unpopular measures.

quillette.com

 

[Cachoo]

I know there are countless stories of heroes helping others and people pitching in however they can, but I was very impressed by ESPN sportcaster Holly Rowe. I've admired her for being a trail blazer in sports reporting, but she posted on social media that she has room for up to 8 people at her house in SLC and that if anyone was displaced by the fires and wanted to stay, they should message her. She also offered to cover the cost of gas or flights to get to SLC.

Holly is loved by Kansas Jayhawk basketball fans. She took the time to attend basketball camps at KU to learn everything she could about the game and has fought off bouts with cancer for years. I hope she is in remission now. It keeps returning. I am not a bit surprised by her generosity.