Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[Frau Muller]

I saw him skating live a few times when I was very young if he is the one I think he is. The first time was at the first ever Junior Worlds in France (one more hint...)

Oh, now even I know.

 

[Judy]

I must be the only person who can’t find the name. Usually I’m awesome at finding info but when I google with the instructions posted above I’m not getting anything. Could someone just send me a dm?

 

[once_upon]

While I do believe I know who he is, I'm not certain posting additional details is a good idea.

I don't know.

 

[Judy]

I was dm’d the name. I had found the name but I have never heard of him since I’m Cdn. Along with his age.

 

[Judy]

While I do believe I know who he is, I'm not certain posting additional details is a good idea.

I don't know.

I don’t see the harm as long as victim’s names aren’t disclosed .. maybe locations where he worked etc. I couldn’t tell from what was previously posted here.

 

[Judy]

Looking at the bio, this person may have edited their own Wikipedia entry (though not recently).

Yes you can edit Wikipedia but - for me -it’s complicated. Well I’m also so not interested in editing Wikipedia too.

Wikipedia:Ten simple rules for editing Wikipedia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

I was dm’d the name. I had found the name but I have never heard of him being Cdn. Along with his age.

The accused person that many have been discussing recently is NOT Canadian - I don't know whose name you were DM'ed.

 

[Judy]

The accused person that many have been discussing recently is NOT Canadian - I don't know whose name you were DM'ed.

I meant that I was Canadian … not the accused. I went and edited my comment though for youu though. I think/ most people kinda got that though lol.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

I meant that I was Canadian … not the accused. I went and edited my comment though for youu though. I think/ most people kinda got that though lol.

I am, and have been for some time, quite aware that you are Canadian - you've mentioned it so many times before that I didn't bother to think that you were referring to yourself again with that phrase in that post. Apologies for misreading the intent of your post.

 

[made_in_canada]

Is the coach’s name held back because he specifically isn’t being sued? I feel like normally the name of the accused is public?

 

[Vagabond]

Is the coach’s name held back because he specifically isn’t being sued? I feel like normally the name of the accused is public?

According to the article linked in Post #1373, he is a defendant in the lawsuit.

South Carolina case law allows using "because of the sensitive nature of the issues involved" in the case.

Filing Pseudonymously: South Carolina | Without My Consent

withoutmyconsent.org

Filing Pseudonymously: Overview | Without My Consent

withoutmyconsent.org

The first link cites a South Carolina lawsuit brought by a woman against her former lover, also a woman. The names of both women were kept private.

As @once_upon mentioned upthread, it's probably a good idea for us to respect the plaintiffs' wish to keep the coach's name out of this discussion.

 

[MacMadame]

I don't think USFS will ever have a Larry Nassar situation. Not because they are better than US Gymnastics but because of the nature of the sport. We don't have these frequent training retreats in an isolated location, for example. We don't have a team leader who makes decisions about how participants train and train athletes themselves. Figure skating is much more of a distributed system than gymnastics. In many ways, figure skating is more like the Catholic Church where priests who molest are protected by the system and the culture.

As a result, IMO, focusing on this perpetrator or that one may be an outlet for our indignation, but it's a distraction from the systemic issues that and allow this behavior to exist for years in the shadows. To solve this problem, we need systemic solutions, not to gossip about one particular accused. Examining how he got away with it for so long is productive. Figuring out who edited his Wiki page is not. YMMV.

 

[Ena Grins]

I don't think USFS will ever have a Larry Nassar situation. Not because they are better than US Gymnastics but because of the nature of the sport. We don't have these frequent training retreats in an isolated location, for example. We don't have a team leader who makes decisions about how participants train and train athletes themselves. Figure skating is much more of a distributed system than gymnastics. In many ways, figure skating is more like the Catholic Church where priests who molest are protected by the system and the culture.

As a result, IMO, focusing on this perpetrator or that one may be an outlet for our indignation, but it's a distraction from the systemic issues that and allow this behavior to exist for years in the shadows. To solve this problem, we need systemic solutions, not to gossip about one particular accused. Examining how he got away with it for so long is productive. Figuring out who edited his Wiki page is not. YMMV.

I agree with this. I don't think they'll necessarily have a scandal around a single person, but I feel like at some point there's going to be something that reveals just how screwed up the system is. I hope we can get to real systemic solutions instead of USFS wringing their hands a couple times a year about how terrible a specific situation is, while not making any changes that would prevent it from happening in the future.

 

[Willin]

@Ena Grins ITA.

There will be no Nassar, but if the right journalist or program with a wide audience gets their hands on the story, there's enough to force change. They've protected a number of predators in their time.

The bigger issue is that more recently they can use SafeSport as a scapegoat.

 

[Trillian]

As a result, IMO, focusing on this perpetrator or that one may be an outlet for our indignation, but it's a distraction from the systemic issues that and allow this behavior to exist for years in the shadows. To solve this problem, we need systemic solutions, not to gossip about one particular accused. Examining how he got away with it for so long is productive. Figuring out who edited his Wiki page is not. YMMV.

Part of what makes me so angry about this particular situation is how much his publicly documented history over the last couple of decades in the sport is obviously lifted directly from the same playbook every single other sexual predator has been using forever. He may not have been an Olympic coach, but he had students at least at the sectional level and was certainly on the radar of every major skating organization in the U.S. And they did exactly what they’ve done whenever they can get away with it: pretended it wasn’t their problem.

You are absolutely right that this is not a story about this individual. The real story should be about how predictable and unremarkable any of this is. I have no doubt figure skating has just as many survivors of abuse and assault perpetrated by coaches and other authority figures as gymnastics does. As much as I’m glad the Nassar case brought attention to the issue, the problem was never how many victims could be harmed by one individual. It’s always been about how many victims the organizations in power are willing to ignore.

 

[rfisher]

Background checks and reference checks are really not effective to stop anything unless there were previous criminal charges. Several years ago there was a rad tech who worked for a traveling company. He was an addict and worked in cath labs. He'd steal narcotics intended for the patient, inject himself and refill the syringe with saline. Syringes and drug amounts are counted so the count was always accurate. He'd eventually be caught by the hospital and simply transferred to another. They never filed a complaint with the ARRT or any state agency or even his company. None of them wanted the potential liability or bad publicity. This went on for several years until a patient caught hepatitis from the contaminated needle and died. Unless a victim or their family actually file a formal complaint or criminal charges, there is almost no way for someone to be sanctioned or prosecuted. It's not so much a matter of protecting the perpetrator as protecting corporate/rinks from potential liability.

 

[overedge]

Also when a sport relies so much on volunteers with varying levels of knowledge to run clubs, with regular turnover in club/rink mgmt as parents' kids leave skating or board members get burned out - it's not surprising that coaches with questionable records usually don't have too much trouble getting a new job.

I'm not saying that volunteers don't care about keeping skaters safe from predatory or excessive coaching. But honestly, club volunteers are being expected to do things for free and with minimal training that are huge challenges for paid employees in organizations with a lot of resources.

ETA: and club volunteer positions often involve functions that carry legal responsibilities and liabilities, such as ensuring protection of vulnerable demographics (ie kids that are minors). If a kid is abused at a skating club, a minimally trained volunteer being responsible for children's safety is not going to help the club's or the federation's credibility.

 

[Willin]

@overedge Not to mention the club volunteers are often very separate from the coaches and skaters. Some are adult skaters that are mostly on adult sessions. Parent volunteers are usually focused on their own skater(s). Ultimately a lot of the volunteer work happens far from coach/skater interactions: board meetings may happen in a meeting room, a non-rink spot (restaurant/house), or a quiet table away from the ice. A lot of volunteer work for competitions/shows is in the set-up and takedown - and generally they can't go into dressing rooms due to SafeSport and won't be at the hotels. Financial and organizational stuff can happen away from the ice rink. And while they may hear about stuff, volunteers that are not coaches/skaters/parents themselves may not be empowered or know how to report stuff.

I'd add that there's no reporting system/background check for coaches. The community is small(ish) and reputation travels, but not everyone is in the right loops. In fact, depending on where you are, rinks are often managed by people with no skating connections/experience. Where I am hockey usually runs the show - and they sure as hell don't know anything about anyone in figure skating. There's also park district set-ups where the city runs the rink - and they may hire a parks and rec person or a skating/hockey person. And even if they are managed by a figure skating person they may be in the national loop or a local loop depending on who they know and how much they care. One skating director I know knows all gossip on a national level; another knows only what her friends are up to.

Currently what everyone has to rely on is a formal background check that only shows criminal cases and USFS/SafeSport's very, very short list - and even then parts of the SafeSport list are not able to be accessed (for instance if the investigation is pending). So there's no reliable way to screen your candidates unless someone bothered to report and follow through with a criminal case.

 

[overedge]

@Willin It blows my mind that people apparently don't even Google candidates. In the current case, if that coach offered to come to my club, and I Googled them and saw two different news stories from two years about how they had problems at previous clubs - that would be a huge red flag.

I know some people would be "Look at their competitive record, how often is an Olympian going to want to coach here" - but again, you have to know about how skating tends to work to know that Olympians don't usually pro-actively offer to be coaches at small lesser known clubs. But you also can't be too careful in vetting whoever is going to work directly with kids, Olympian or not.

 

[Sparks]

I would not put a lot of onus on volunteers. Management/Owners should do their jobs

 

[overedge]

I would not put a lot of onus on volunteers. Management/Owners should do their jobs

I completely agree. But this is a huge problem, that skating federations expect volunteers to do so much of the work, not only day to day admin but also to run events, test days, etc. It's exploitation IMO, and it also often comes with implicit guilt - "if we don't do this the kids won't have these opportunities".

 

[gkelly]

I completely agree. But this is a huge problem, that skating federations expect volunteers to do so much of the work, not only day to day admin but also to run events, test days, etc. It's exploitation IMO, and it also often comes with implicit guilt - "if we don't do this the kids won't have these opportunities".

So what's the alternative? Have all the work currently done by clubs transferred to paid employees of the federation? Whether at busy figure skating training centers or at local rinks with a few hours of figure skating ice time per week?

That would make an already expensive sport that much more expensive and would probably kill smaller local programs entirely.

The problem is how decentralized the training is, at least in the US and Canada. I don't know what the solution might be.

 

[Willin]

@overedge True, but I feel like google isn't considered standard. Even if it was, there are many more predators whose reputation is local gossip only - not headlines. Open secrets maybe, but not google-able.

@gkelly I think at least having a registry of coaches/officials with action against them and investigations would help. Maybe not publicly for those under investigation, but a database available to skating directors.

 

[Karen-W]

So what's the alternative? Have all the work currently done by clubs transferred to paid employees of the federation? Whether at busy figure skating training centers or at local rinks with a few hours of figure skating ice time per week?

That would make an already expensive sport that much more expensive and would probably kill smaller local programs entirely.

The problem is how decentralized the training is, at least in the US and Canada. I don't know what the solution might be.

Well, as noted above, if rink management/ownership did the job instead... Why are coaches mostly independent contractors? Because rinks don't want to take on the insurance liability of employing people who are potential predators. Ultimately, sports facilities in the USA (and Canada for that matter) need to function like schools and healthcare and eliminate the independent contractor employment model for coaches, trainers, and anyone who has direct contact with minors.

 

[overedge]

So what's the alternative? Have all the work currently done by clubs transferred to paid employees of the federation? Whether at busy figure skating training centers or at local rinks with a few hours of figure skating ice time per week?

That would make an already expensive sport that much more expensive and would probably kill smaller local programs entirely.

The problem is how decentralized the training is, at least in the US and Canada. I don't know what the solution might be.

It's a model that's built on completely outdated assumptions, like kids coming from a household that has two parents and that can afford to have at least one parent donate their time to running the club. It's also an elitist model that empowers parents with the resources to be able to volunteer - not the parents with the desirable qualifications or skills.

I don't know what the solution is, but a model that can't operate without large amounts of unpaid labour isn't sustainable or safe.

 

[MacMadame]

I know some people would be "Look at their competitive record, how often is an Olympian going to want to coach here"

An Olympian who almost no one remembers and finished 12th (?) in an Olympics so long ago many of the parents and all of the skaters weren't even born. I don't see the draw tbh.

I would not put a lot of onus on volunteers. Management/Owners should do their jobs

They need to care more about who teaches at their rink. I think the only way that will happen is if they get in legal trouble for allowing someone to coach there who commits SA.

The PSA and USFS should do more to vet the people they license as well. Other professions do it so it's not that hard IMO.

 

[Sparks]

They need to care more about who teaches at their rink.

Yes, That's management's job

 

[Debbie S]

As a (USFS) club volunteer and former board member who, in addition to everything else I did, was responsible for verifying coach compliance each year and hounding coaches who didn't (fun times), here is my perspective.

USFS likes to make a big deal about instituting rules and processes but then puts the burden on club vols to manage/enforce. This is true with coach compliance/SafeSport, EMS for comps, etc. (my club comp chair could go on and on about the lack of support for clubs with EMS and USFS 'figure it out' approach). When they instituted the coach compliance, they made it very clear it was up to club vols to enforce the rules and if a coach didn't want to comply...'oh well, that's your problem, read them the rules again'.

So the responsibility for protecting skaters was all in the hands of unpaid volunteers. Whose priority is their own/their kid's skating so who is going to potentially stand up to an errant coach (who could even be their/their kid's coach). I stood up to one particular coach who thought he was special and why should he have to get compliance stuff done and dealing with the backlash from his cult followers (adult students and parents of students) honestly wasn't worth it.

It shouldn't be surprising that if a rink/club kicks out a coach, the feeling is, they've washed their hands of the matter. It's enough of a lawsuit risk to kick out a coach, much less try to warn other rinks (and the same issue exists in 'regular' jobs....usually the only reference a company will give out is dates of employment and job title).

My time on the board pre-dated SafeSport. My impression is that USFS is now basically deferring to SafeSport...they require board members to take a course in SafeSport and members have to sign an acknowledgement of SafeSport rules, but it's all basically 'check the boxes', IMO...i.e. OK, we did this, now it's up to others to identify/manage/report.

In USFS' defense, it's a volunteer-run org and paid staff take their orders from them. And the volunteer leadership is composed mostly of longtime participants in the sport...as skaters, coaches, judges....who are more likely to protect/defend their peers accused of abuse than root them out of the sport. All you have to do is look at the number of skaters and coaches who supported Nik Sorenson on IG to see how skating culture protects the accused (and by extension, rejects the accuser). And the response to the accusations against Coughlin, Sappenfield, etc.

Bottom line is no one who has the authority to make substantive change is taking responsibility. I hope the next generation of coaches (MIDA, Knierims/LeDuc...) will do things differently and create a safer atmosphere but it can't be left entirely to coaches...culture change needs to come from those in power.

 

[Gris]

TW: rape, eating disorder, depression

https://www.wsj.com/sports/olympics/gracie-gold-figure-skating-memoir-outofshapeworthlessloser-8e70b876?st=rurq2spsgs8du35&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Gold’s memoir “Outofshapeworthlessloser,” which will be published Tuesday, includes her explosive allegation that at 21 she was raped by a fellow skater at an event after-party—and that five years after the incident was reported to the U.S. Center for SafeSport, she has no idea whether the case has been resolved.

...

Some time later she told a U.S. Figure Skating official about the rape, and he reported it to the U.S. Center for SafeSport, as required after the Center was launched in 2017 to respond to sexual abuse claims in the Olympic movement. Gold says it was another two years before someone from the Center contacted her to find out more, that she’s heard nothing since, and all she knows about the case now is that it has a different case manager.

 

[On My Own]

TW: rape, eating disorder, depression

https://www.wsj.com/sports/olympics/gracie-gold-figure-skating-memoir-outofshapeworthlessloser-8e70b876?st=rurq2spsgs8du35&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

21... that means the 2016-17 season. Goodness.