Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[Lemonade20]

Wow, that's unbelievable! My heart breaks for her.

 

[Frau Muller]

Talk about a toxic environment. It's horrible.

Well, at least Aljona Savchenko got out as quickly as she went it to it.

 

[misskarne]

Well, at least Aljona Savchenko got out as quickly as she went it to it.

She went to it in full knowledge about this.

 

[Frau Muller]

She went to it in full knowledge about this.

If so, shame on her.

 

[Karen-W]

She went to it in full knowledge about this.

Really? You have the evidence to back that statement up?

What Aljona herself has said is that she didn't realize the extent of the allegations, that people told her it was nothing. I'm inclined to believe that, living on another continent, she didn't know just how awful it was. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't like what she saw out of Dalilah for the 1-2 months she was in Colorado Springs and that's part of what made her go back to Europe later in the summer.

 

[Lemonade20]

I don't know how much she really knew going into the partnership, but if she was smart, she would have done her homework or talked to others about them. It seemed like she put herself above everything else that's happening. It wasn't till after she started training that people were trashing her and she probably realized then what a dumb decision it was. I also wonder if she quit because she was getting the same abusive treatment.

 

[greenapple]

I also wonder if she quit because she was getting the same abusive treatment.

Or she saw it happening to others...

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

What I don't understand is why any skater would put up with Dalilah's disgusting abuse. Or any skaters' parents condoning it. If I as a parent am paying over $50K a year for my daughter's skating, and if a coach calls her a slut and to go fcuk the entire men's gymnastics team, well that coach would quickly get a termination letter effective immediately. Who the hell does she think she is, talking to people like that who are PAYING her to teach them? Why give her any kind of career in coaching? Let her teach learntoskate with the hockey players. She's garbage.

 

[Taso]

Let her teach learntoskate with the hockey players. She's garbage.

She doesn't deserve to do that even, IMO.

 

[MacMadame]

What I don't understand is why any skater would put up with Dalilah's disgusting abuse. Or any skaters' parents condoning it. If I as a parent am paying over $50K a year for my daughter's skating, and if a coach calls her a slut and to go fcuk the entire men's gymnastics team, well that coach would quickly get a termination letter effective immediately. Who the hell does she think she is, talking to people like that who are PAYING her to teach them? Why give her any kind of career in coaching?

Think of it like quitting a job where you need the money in the middle of doing an expensive project (say renovating your house) without something else lined up. Or quitting your job when that's how you get your health insurance when in the middle of being treated for cancer.

Most skaters will put up with stuff until the season is over because changing coaches mid-season is so disruptive.

This is also true of bad partnerships. You ride it out until the season is over if you can. Especially if USFS has given you training money that you'd have to pay back.

Let her teach learntoskate with the hockey players. She's garbage.

So it's okay for her to abuse hockey players?

 

[alj5]

A coach-athlete relationship is very close, much like a family or intimate partner relationship.

Many parents don't stay for every practice. And abusive coaches will treat their kids differently when the parent is present.

It's hard to see abuse from inside an abusive relationship. It's hard to leave something so familiar. They make it easy to stay by having periods of kindness.

I've been a foster parent on and off for about 5 years and every time I get a kid/kids, I have to tell them multiple times that we will only be mad if you hurt one of us or the dogs on purpose (and honestly mostly the dogs). Nothing else they can do will make me angry, and we will never yell at or hit you. It takes months or even a year for them to believe me. Because this is normal to them.

 

[Lemonade20]

A coach-athlete relationship is very close, much like a family or intimate partner relationship.

Many parents don't stay for every practice. And abusive coaches will treat their kids differently when the parent is present.

It's hard to see abuse from inside an abusive relationship. It's hard to leave something so familiar. They make it easy to stay by having periods of kindness.

I've been a foster parent on and off for about 5 years and every time I get a kid/kids, I have to tell them multiple times that we will only be mad if you hurt one of us or the dogs on purpose (and honestly mostly the dogs). Nothing else they can do will make me angry, and we will never yell at or hit you. It takes months or even a year for them to believe me. Because this is normal to them.

Completely agree, that's how people like her get away with it. Gaslighting, playing mind games, trying every possible way to break down someone's mental health. It makes me sick that people had to place their trust in someone like her.

 

[Vagabond]

What I don't understand is why any skater would put up with Dalilah's disgusting abuse. Or any skaters' parents condoning it.

Why do people stay in abusive relationships of any kind?

Here are some of the reasons:

• They are afraid of what will happen if they leave.
• Having been abused before, they are accustomed to abuse.
• They are too ashamed to move on.
• Their abuser has intimidated them.
• They have low self-esteem.
• Their abuser gives them something (praise, understanding, whatever) that makes them want to stay.

Why do parents condone abuse of any kind?

Here are some of the reasons:

• Their children don't tell them how bad it is.
• They see the signs but don't know what they mean.
• They see the signs but don't believe what they mean.
• They don't see it as a bad thing.

I expect that all of this holds true in skating just as much as in other situations.

 

[Sylvia]

"Vanessa James’ first public comments about the alleged sexual abuse of a 13-year-old girl by James’ former partner Morgan Cipres in Dec. 2017" as tweeted by Christine Brennan (J/R had a pre-Skate Canada International media call today): https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/status/1451273001287176209

 

[Sylvia]

Janusz McKinnon is a figure skating coach in Kent, WA who was listed in SafeSport's database on Oct. 19: https://uscenterforsafesport.org/response-and-resolution/centralized-disciplinary-database/

USFS' Grievances page has been updated wih the same info:

On October 15, 2021, U.S. Figure Skating suspended the membership of Janusz McKinnon. On October 19, 2021, the U.S. Center for SafeSport issued the following Sanction regarding U.S. Figure Skating member Janusz McKinnon:

Sanction: Temporary Suspension. Beginning on October 19, 2021, Janusz McKinnon is prohibited from participating, in any capacity, in any event, program, activity, or competition authorized by, organized by, or under the auspices of the United States Olympic & Paralympic Committee (USOPC), the National Governing Bodies recognized by the USOPC, a Local Affiliated Organization as defined by the Code, any High Performance Management Organization (HPMO), or at a facility under the jurisdiction of the same.

Pursuant to U.S. Figure Skating Bylaw Article XXV, Section 2, U.S. Figure Skating hereby adopts the Sanction imposed by the Center temporarily suspending Janusz McKinnon effective October 19, 2021.

 

[Orm Irian]

"Vanessa James’ first public comments about the alleged sexual abuse of a 13-year-old girl by James’ former partner Morgan Cipres in Dec. 2017" as tweeted by Christine Brennan (J/R had a pre-Skate Canada International media call today): https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/status/1451273001287176209

Oh dear. There's way too much 'I had nothing to do with it' and 'I think people know I'm a good person' in that response.

That's the language of someone who knows she did the wrong thing at more than one point, and feels bad about it, but is trying to tell herself she didn't in order to keep living with herself without having to confront her complicity and change anything about herself. Not uncommon, and certainly not unexpected based on James's behaviour, but deeply disappointing anyway.

 

[Vagabond]

Although I do have my criticisms if Christine Brennan, I am glad for the work she does.

 

[Frau Muller]

Nice try, Vanessa James. Too late now - bring the mop.

 

[Willin]

Lol at all the "Poor Alexa! So attacked! That question was uncalled for!" apparently not applying to Vanessa James' press conference.

But, yeah, if she was so concerned about the allegations and supported the victims, why did she also continue to work with and support Cipres after the allegations came out? And at such a small rink with such a large gossip circle that multiple people on this forum (with few insiders) have the details I can't believe for one second that Vanessa had heard nothing about this case until it came out publicly. I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have been part of the investigation (at the very least a question of "did you know anything about this?") given how closely she worked with those involved.

 

[Vagabond]

But, yeah, if she was so concerned about the allegations and supported the victims, why did she also continue to work with and support Cipres after the allegations came out?

To collaborate or not to collaborate, that is the question, and I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that Christine Brennan asked.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Lol at all the "Poor Alexa! So attacked! That question was uncalled for!" apparently not applying to Vanessa James' press conference.

You could probably give people a chance to read the thread but whatever...

I am still failing to see how this helps with going after the people who actually have power to change the organizations. Exactly what power does a person still competing in the system have? I would also appreciate it if the focus wasn't largely on the women close to the abusers. If Brennan wants to continue publicly questioning actively competing skaters she had better go after all of them. She has the perfect opportunity with Danny O'Shea.

 

[angi]

"Vanessa James’ first public comments about the alleged sexual abuse of a 13-year-old girl by James’ former partner Morgan Cipres in Dec. 2017" as tweeted by Christine Brennan (J/R had a pre-Skate Canada International media call today): https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/status/1451273001287176209

Who* would have thought that her making a public statement will be worse than her staying silent. Kudos to Vanessa for a self-centered and righteous statement that doesn't sound remotely like anything resembling the truth. I don't know if she had any media training about the topic but if she did it was a failure.

(*Everyone)

 

[overedge]

I have a very hard time believing that at a small gossipy rink, and with the amount of time that pairs skaters spend together every day, that James didn't know anything about what was going on. Maybe she didn't know all of it, but it's not plausible IMO that she didn't know any of it.

 

[angi]

I have a very hard time believing that at a small gossipy rink, and with the amount of time that pairs skaters spend together every day, that James didn't know anything about what was going on. Maybe she didn't know all of it, but it's not plausible IMO that she didn't know any of it.

It's more than that, she kept doing shows with Cipres after the allegations went public. If she did that because she was contractually obligated and couldn't get out of it then she's free to state that but to try and pretend she didn't know about the allegations when the timeline is visible to the public is equal to pretending everyone is stupid. The cover-up was all about allowing her and Cipres to go to the Olympics and keep skating for a full season after it all went down, in what world are we supposed to believe she didn't know anything and was not involved at all.

 

[Orm Irian]

in what world are we supposed to believe she didn't know anything and was not involved at all.

I'm pretty sure her 'I wasn't involved' can be translated as 'I wasn't a subject of the SafeSport investigation,' and that's it.

As for not knowing anything, I could accept that she wasn't aware Cipres had sent pornographic material to minors until the consequences of that act blew up at the rink, but that's all.

 

[okokok777]

Phil Hersh wrote an article about the press conference. It has a bit more information on some of her responses: http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/home/2021/10/21/pairs-skater-vanessa-james

Asked how it was possible she did not know what Cipres had done and of the alleged efforts to keep it quiet, James said, “I reiterate that I was not aware of these allegations or this cover up (prior to being told of it by authorities after it was reported.)

This section was particularly interesting to me. When I first saw her statements, I interpreted it as her claiming that she didn't know about the allegations until they were publicly reported on - which shocked me because she'd known about the allegations well before that.

However, the "prior to being told of it by authorities" part could be true because the police briefly investigated the allegations & interviewed potential witnesses in late December 2017/early January 2018. I suspect that she may have known about certain things earlier than that but that's a discussion for another day.

Personally, I still think the statement came off poorly.

 

[Lemonade20]

I'm disappointed in James too, I know she was very close with her ex partner but still. That's a slap to the minor. If that was her own kid, she would have spoken up.

 

[Orm Irian]

However, the "prior to being told of it by authorities" part could be true because the police briefly investigated the allegations & interviewed potential witnesses in late December 2017/early January 2018. I suspect that she may have known about certain things earlier than that but that's a discussion for another day.

Thanks for the link to the more detailed article. And given that timeline information, her specific phrasing there does make some sense. But the way she's using it to imply significantly less culpability on her part than she merits being held to account for is...well, I first typed 'dodgy', but let's be real, it's just dishonest.

And this from a woman who once said that if she weren't a skater she'd be paediatrician! Though I suppose if she'd gone the medical route she'd have acquired an actual education in ethics at some point, not to mention mandatory reporting qualifications.

 

[overedge]

Personally, I still think the statement came off poorly.

Any apology that includes "I'm sorry if...." is not a real apology.

 

[wickedwitch]

This is a pet peeve of mine, but I HATE when someone references how they're a "good person" when accused of doing something bad. It's not as if doing kind things in other aspects of your life minimizes the hurt done.

(Additionally, for at least 99% of people out there, including myself, I don't think think the good person/bad person dichotomy hold at all. We're all just people with good and bad actions. And continuing to skate with Cipres after learning about this was not a good action. But that's more of a philosophical point.)