Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[becca]

Yeah I know. Fringe rogue members of the royal family are a bit of a liability and Princess Michael of Kent proves that. If you research her, she's crazy. And that title enabled this random crazy to embarrass herself, her family and her country on international scale.

The monarchy should be slimmed to a small group that are carefully managed and educated about the significance and obligation of their roles.

I just don't see how it is possible to have a couple of American raised children living LA lives styled as HRH. That could just also be a total political and diplomatic minefield into the future as they become adults and get jobs and lives in the US. And for them, having some kind of obligation to a country they've never lived in and don't understand would be very difficult to navigate.

Yes. I honestly think Meghan being American had a huge issue with this too.

She kept on talking about finding ones voice well to be frank part of being royal is being kind of above the Frey non political.

Queen Elizabeth lasted as long as she did because she will never give an interview explaining herself or defending herself will never talk politics etc.


It’s why The Countess of Wessex and The Duchess of Cambridge are better fits for the job.

 

[Prancer]

I just don't see how it is possible to have a couple of American raised children living LA lives styled as HRH. That could just also be a total political and diplomatic minefield into the future as they become adults and get jobs and lives in the US. And for them, having some kind of obligation to a country they've never lived in and don't understand would be very difficult to navigate.

Sort of like past BRF royals. I mean, it's not like there are no precedents.

I can't see a privileged American child wanting to be a royal, but one never knows.

 

[starrynight]

The world's changed a lot. With hyper media coverage, social networks, camera phones and a culture of extreme judgement etc being a public figure must be like walking on eggshells.

And it's pretty marginal what those kids could use those titles for. In 20 years time, they'd look silly parading the titles around the US.

And it remains to be seen what kind of profile these kids will have as adults. By then Harry and Meghan will be in their 60s and unless they continue to promote themselves through the media with continued vigour for decades to come, the world will have moved onto other things and they will be low profile people. And if the kids don't choose to become media socialites etc they will probably be very low profile people too.

 

[MacMadame]

Sort of like past BRF royals. I mean, it's not like there are no precedents.

I can't see a privileged American child wanting to be a royal, but one never knows.

True. But also, it's not like they couldn't have a title and just ... not use it. Having a title is a way for them to have options.

I kind of understand Harry's POV. Let's say the Queen dies, Charles becomes King and terrorists blow up Wills and his family. That makes Harry and his family next line for the throne. While I don't think anyone is going to blow up the Cambridges, the Queen definitely is going to die and something could happen to either Charles or William. Look at the Queen: she never expected to be Queen. It only took one abdication for that to happen. At some point, when William's oldest grows up and has kids, Harry & Archie will be far enough down that there is pretty much no chance Harry will be King. But that hasn't happened yet.

Also, when all this was happening, they weren't planning to step away forever. They really wanted to be involved, just not as senior royals. That makes all the decisions from the Palace and from Harry's father to cut them out, to cut out Archie, to revoke their patronages. etc. even more cutting to him.

 

[starrynight]

Also, when all this was happening, they weren't planning to step away forever. They really wanted to be involved, just not as senior royals. That makes all the decisions from the Palace and from Harry's father to cut them out, to cut out Archie, to revoke their patronages. etc. even more cutting to him.

The patronages were only removed when they quit being working members of the royal family.

And I mean, as for these titles, I expect some sympathy could be found from an aristocratic support group, but I don't see why the public at large should be required to sympathise. A fight about a princedom is the most insanely detached thing I could actually think of.

It shows that no matter how much they say they wish they could be 'normal people', when it comes to the crunch, they are actually obsessed with titles and status of being royalty.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I do think it would have been wise for the royal family to make those changes before Harry married anyone preferably when Edwards kids were born. Or when the changed things for Kate and Williams kids

But if this was always Charles plan I have had a hard time thinking he didn’t tell Harry years ago and long before He met Meghan.

We didn’t know. If Charles made those expectations clear before Meghan was in the picture it’s really not fair to say it’s a race thing.
I know the Swedish royals said their father told them years ago he would take HRH from his kids names. Maybe the Swedish way is better Prince but no HRH.

Queen Elizabeth grand children all but William and Harry were all told they won’t be working royals.
With HRH reserved for working royals and minor children of the monarch/heir.

Um...Harry knew. Those rules have been in place since 1917. The title is bestowed by the Queen quite liberally. At the great MGeGXIT summit where the conditions of their "stepping back" were hammered out and with Harry present it was made patently (good pun!) That the could not use HRH or for commercial endeavors. the Royal Sussex Brand.
Not quite sure what Harry and Meghan thought do not use meant ?. "
As explained in the January announcement, from Spring they will formally retain their titles of 'His/Her Royal Highness' but no longer actively use their 'HRH's," a Sussex spokesperson said in a statement released by Buckingham Palace in March 2020, when they officially stepped down.Jan 8, 2021
people.com › Royals

Will Meghan Markle and Prince Harry Lose HRH Titles? | PEOPLE.com​

 

[BittyBug]

The patronages were only removed when they quit being working members of the royal family.

Yes but Archie's title was settled well in advance, and certainly before they decided to leave England.

The weird thing with titles is that I think aristocrats would believe the die is cast as to their kids' futures at birth with that title. So it would be the idea that Archie/daughter would be inferior due to not being Prince/Princess. Which says a lot about the way aristocrats - including Harry and Meghan - view the world.

No, it says a lot about how you think aristocrats view the world.

I suspect Harry would actually be fundamentally horrified about the idea of abolishing the monarchy and aristocratic system, because that is the sole place that he gets his platform and relevancy from.

He will always be Princess Diana's son, who tragically lost his mother at an early age. See JFK Jr. if you think that wouldn't give him a platform and relevancy even without a title.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Sort of like past BRF royals. I mean, it's not like there are no precedents.

I can't see a privileged American child wanting to be a royal, but one never knows.

Well every little girl wants to be a ?

BRF is not a styling. I means someone is a member of the Royal Family. When a family member does an engagement representing the Queen the use HRH.

Diana was not titled Princess. She was known as the People's Princess
And given the work his mother did in Africa Harry's claim of systemic racism seems rather absurd.

 

[starrynight]

He will always be Princess Diana's son, who tragically lost his mother at an early age.

So is William, incidentally. But no one seems to mention that in connection with William to forgive his mistakes and choices.

Perhaps people think that 15 was old enough to not have been affected?

Both those brothers suffered the same loss.

 

[canbelto]

So is William, incidentally. But no one seems to give William a free pass because of it.

Perhaps people think that 15 was old enough to not have been affected?

I think people think being king is enough compensation. Not really right but it's just the way it goes.

 

[BittyBug]

So is William, incidentally. But no one seems to mention that in connection with William to forgive his mistakes and choices.

Perhaps people think that 15 was old enough to not have been affected?

Both those brothers suffered the same loss.

William is not relevant to my point, which was in response to your claim that Harry would not have a platform if the monarchy were abolished. Harry will always have a platform because of his past,

 

[Prancer]

Diana was not titled Princess. She was known as the People's Princess

I assume you mean after the divorce? Because before that, was she not Diana, Princess of Wales?

 

[canbelto]

William said that when he became king, he'd simply award Diana "HRH" back.

 

[becca]

I think people think being king is enough compensation. Not really right but it's just the way it goes.

That is really ridiculous. I don’t know how being King someday compensates one losing his Mom. And the thing is that William was always the one who had to be good all the time make no scandal.

They both shared the same terrible loss.

 

[becca]

True. But also, it's not like they couldn't have a title and just ... not use it. Having a title is a way for them to have options.

I kind of understand Harry's POV. Let's say the Queen dies, Charles becomes King and terrorists blow up Wills and his family. That makes Harry and his family next line for the throne. While I don't think anyone is going to blow up the Cambridges, the Queen definitely is going to die and something could happen to either Charles or William. Look at the Queen: she never expected to be Queen. It only took one abdication for that to happen. At some point, when William's oldest grows up and has kids, Harry & Archie will be far enough down that there is pretty much no chance Harry will be King. But that hasn't happened yet.

Also, when all this was happening, they weren't planning to step away forever. They really wanted to be involved, just not as senior royals. That makes all the decisions from the Palace and from Harry's father to cut them out, to cut out Archie, to revoke their patronages. etc. even more cutting to him.

If they weren’t concerned about this possibility wouldn’t they consider raising Archie in the U.K?

Also I think the royal family just didn’t want them “merching the royal family name”. Things like Suroyal. If they were working private jobs like the York girls but they don’t want to make it look like the royal family is for sale.

Peter Phillips milk commercial was uhh but at least it wasn’t His Royal Highness Peter Phillips.

Then there was words like “collaborate with the Queen.”

And the feeling we will take the fun assignments like trips that I am sure were just a no.

 

[JJH]

William was 15. Harry was 12, almost 13. Any parent or child psychologist will tell you that there is an a large amount of emotional development that takes place between those year. At the time of the funeral march I said that I considered it child abuse for both the boys, but particularly for Harry, since he was younger. Harry has stated how he felt. Their parents' nightmare marriage and Diana's tragic pointless death were devastating. William was always better at concealing his emotions. Harry just lets all his feelings out. Different temperaments for different people. William has cultivated the right temperament for his role in life

 

[starrynight]

Age is an interesting thing, because the older you are, the more you understand too.

I think William had a huge front row seat to his family troubles. For example the story of him sitting at school watching the Panorama interview crying because the whole terrible situation was being played out on TV for the whole world. I imagine watching his brother emulating that interview decades later probably brought back some unpleasant memories too. Meghan allegedly wearing the same eyeliner as Diana and her jewellery probably didn't help either.

And so it's a different experience, but sometimes being older and more aware has its troubles too.

 

[overedge]

Well every little girl wants to be a ?

No, they don't.

Diana was not titled Princess. She was known as the People's Princess
And given the work his mother did in Africa Harry's claim of systemic racism seems rather absurd.

You seem really confused as to what systemic racism is. It's not "[racial slur] get out of here" or "let the [racial slur] people in Africa starve". It's policies and practices and attitudes that have the effect of discriminating against certain types of people - not explicit racism, as in expressing racist attitudes or using racist words, but behaviour that still excludes or discriminates against certain groups of people.

So Diana making trips to Africa to help disadvantaged POC does not prove that there is no systemic racism in the BRF or in the royal household.

 

[canbelto]

Age is an interesting thing, because the older you are, the more you understand too.

I think William had a huge front row seat to his family troubles. For example the story of him sitting at school watching the Panorama interview crying because the whole terrible situation was being played out on TV for the whole world. I imagine watching his brother emulating that interview decades later probably brought back some unpleasant memories too. Meghan allegedly wearing the same eyeliner as Diana and her jewellery probably didn't help either.

And so it's a different experience, but sometimes being older and more aware has its troubles too.

One thing about the HBO doc they did a few years back was William seemed to remember his mother very fondly. Harry was just so angry about her death. One seemed to grieve, another was traumatized. Very different reactions.

 

[becca]

Age is an interesting thing, because the older you are, the more you understand too.

I think William had a huge front row seat to his family troubles. For example the story of him sitting at school watching the Panorama interview crying because the whole terrible situation was being played out on TV for the whole world. I imagine watching his brother emulating that interview decades later probably brought back some unpleasant memories too. Meghan allegedly wearing the same eyeliner as Diana and her jewellery probably didn't help either.

And so it's a different experience, but sometimes being older and more aware has its troubles too.

Yes I Long suspected that Kate refusing to give interviews after they broke up is a large reason why he married her. She showed she could be trusted.

Harry said he wanted to heal rift with family nothing about the interview is going to heal it. It is going to be 100 times worse.

I read Diana used William as a confident in her marriage woes probably affected his relationship with his Dad for a lot of years.

Obviously I do think making those boys walk behind was horrific.

Obviously it would be different reactions due to different ages but at the end William lost his mom too. Both were way to young. And he has to face these increased responsibilities without her support.

 

[overedge]

Harry said he wanted to heal rift with family nothing about the interview is going to heal it. It is going to be 100 times worse.

That's for them and their family members to decide. Not you.

 

[becca]

That's for them and their family members to decide. Not you.

I don’t decide it of course but common sense would say it made things worse.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I assume you mean after the divorce? Because before that, was she not Diana, Princess of Wales?

You are right. It is pretty confusing.

Fun fact: Charlotte will not become Princess Royal right away...even when William becomes King.. there can onlybbe one Princess Royal, and that is Princess Anne.

 

[MacMadame]

If they weren’t concerned about this possibility wouldn’t they consider raising Archie in the U.K?

They were planning to! The whole deal was supposed to be half time in the US and half in the UK. Which for parents with two citizenships is completely reasonable. It was the BRF who pulled the plug on that.

There's nothing to say they won't move back at some point either. Though I think it's more likely they'll just go over there to visit on big occasions. Or for jobs.

I imagine

You have quite the imagination.

Meghan allegedly wearing the same eyeliner as Diana

Are you kidding me? The same eyeliner?! Eyeliner is eyeliner. There are only so many shades of black/brown and so many ways to wear it.

 

[AxelAnnie]

It’s a bit of an empty threat I think. I doubt ex-royals living in the USA would be giving interviews to UK papers anyway.

The main currency with celebrities is just paparazzi photos. And because they now live in Los Angeles and the paps seem to be aware of all their outings there will be plenty of those to print.

It’s not the same as when they as royals stayed behind palace walls and a publication needed to get access to offical functions to have content.

Hollywood types often make sure the paps are tipped off when they are going somewhere.

There are a lot of stars living in Malibu. There was a kind of unwritten rule for us Mabuins. Leave the celebs alone.
Barbra Streisand was sitting near a path at the Country Mart eating a hot dog. I would never bother her. But I did manage to walk past her three times bushing a baby in a stroller humming "People...people who need people"

 

[becca]

They were planning to! The whole deal was supposed to be half time in the US and half in the UK. Which for parents with two citizenships is completely reasonable. It was the BRF who pulled the plug on that.

There's nothing to say they won't move back at some point either. Though I think it's more likely they'll just go over there to visit on big occasions. Or for jobs.


You have quite the imagination.


Are you kidding me? The same eyeliner?! Eyeliner is eyeliner. There are only so many shades of black/brown and so many ways to wear it.

Once again considering Meghan and Harry wanted to pursue commercial deals it was completely reasonable for the Queen to say they couldn’t represent the British State as working royals.

The British government I am sure didn’t want representatives of their government hawking products. So really this probably wasn’t just the Queen saying heck no.


Nothing stopped them for still raising Archie primarily in the UK. If he is going to be a British royal the ties should be stronger with Britain. If he is private who cares. He is still in the line of succession.

 

[MLIS]

Diana was never technically Princess Diana ... Princess [Firstname] is for those born royal, like Princess Anne, Princess Beatrice, etc. Diana’s titles derived from Charles, so she was HRH The Princess of Wales (no first name, technically Charles’ title is HRH The Prince of Wales). After the divorce she was Diana, Princess of Wales (note no “the” ... she was A princess of Wales but not THE princess of Wales, i.e. not the wife of The Prince of Wales). “Princess Diana” was an easy way for the media and public to refer to her (see how the media now still refers to “Kate Middleton” and “Meghan Markle,” because their formal titles don’t have their first names and don’t resonate with people), but it was never “correct,” and you would never have seen an official document refer to her like that.

I suspect a lot of Harry’s concern about Archie not having a title/security is tied to Diana’s death ... if she had had proper, police protection instead of the hired bodyguards and drunk driver of the Fayed family, would she still be alive? That would haunt him. But my understanding is that it was Diana who asked to have her police protection removed, because she wanted the privacy.

 

[starrynight]

You have quite the imagination.

So does everyone projecting thoughts and ideas onto these strangers.

 

[MsZem]

Her intent isn't relevant. If she meant to do it, she is racist. If she did it by mistake - as in, just happened to choose that one brooch on that one day, out of all the jewelry she has - then she's stupid.

From what I've read of Princess Michael, I see a related possibility: she did it on purpose, but thought of it as some sort of positive, welcoming gesture. Which is bizarre, but seems to fit with the mindset of someone who'd say this:

"I even pretended years ago to be an African, a half-caste African, but because of my light eyes I did not get away with it, but I dyed my hair black... I travelled on African buses. I wanted to be a writer. I wanted experiences from Cape Town to right up in northern Mozambique. I had this adventure with these absolutely adorable, special people and to call me racist: it's a knife through the heart because I really love these people."

I mean...

 

[morqet]

'Appalled but not surprised': Black British women on the Meghan row

Black women from three generations tell how the Oprah interview affected their view of the monarchy

www.theguardian.com

@becca @Karen-W @AxelAnnie you'll find this instructive