Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[canbelto]

@becca is the same person who voted twice for Trump and couldn't get why people would think that was a racist act. I mean, seriously.

 

[becca]

@becca is the same person who voted twice for Trump and couldn't get why people would think that was a racist act. I mean, seriously.

I didn’t vote for Trump twice

 

[Karen-W]

More 'truth' exposed as lies - Guess what? Harry rode a bike with his dad as a child. Just another example of Meghan and Harry's "truth" being factually inaccurate.

 

[canbelto]

More 'truth' exposed as lies - Guess what? Harry rode a bike with his dad as a child. Just another example of Meghan and Harry's "truth" being factually inaccurate.

Omg stop the presses! Guillotine for Harry! Off with his head!
There's so much shit I don't remember from my childhood.

 

[just tuned in]

If someone in the BRF said anything like, "I hope the baby's skin won't be too dark," then, wow.

If someone said, "I wonder who (which parent) the baby will look like," that might be normal in non-biracial circumstances. But I realize now that even innocent comments can be uncomfortable for every expectant mom. Moms-to-be are worried about their pregnancy and the health of the fetus. Maybe the only thing one should say to an expectant mom is how beautiful she looks, and nothing about the anticipated features of the baby-to-come.

 

[once_upon]

I didn’t vote for Trump twice

So you don't like that people think this way and have a prejudice against you.
Huh, wonder how that feels?

 

[canbelto]

@becca you said you voted for Trump AGAIN in 2020. Isn't that twice?

 

[AxelAnnie]

Could we all agree with SOME FACTS here...just for the heck it.

Archie Harrison title: Prince Harry 'knew' Royal Family would not give HRH title to son​

These rules come from the George V Letters Patent of 1917.
Obviously this restructuring had nothing to do with either race or Archie.
Archie is still 7th in line of succession. The LP had to do with streamlining the Royal Family (Remember Queen Victoria had 9 children who then had children etc. That is a lit of Prince and ?)
And Prince Charles wants to further streamline the BRF.)
Meghan and Harry have loudly eschewed the responsibilities of being Working Royals.

Those are facts. Grown ups are free and required to make decisions. That is certainly their right. It is a choice they made for their family.
To now claim that Archie is being denied certain things that are given to working Royals is disingenuous. Like all adults there are consequences to one's decision.

Meghan and Harry have provided no facts that support their claims.
Innuendo, supposition and personal thoughts are just that.
There is no PROOF of systemic racism in the BRF.
The Royal Family is not an equity employer (equity refers to proportional representation (by race, class, gender, etc.) That is not their purpose and doesn't need to be.

Another FACT. Princess Michael of Kent. She wore a Blackamoor pin in Meghan's presence. Blackamoor art is a European art style from the Early Modern period, depicting highly stylized figures of black people. Common examples of items and objects decorated in the blackamoor style include sculpture,. jewellery, furniture, and decorative art.
Princess Michael of Kent chose to wear a Blackamoor which was a gift to an occasion at the Palace where Meghan was present. She has since promised not to wear the broach. End FACTS.
Do we know her intent? Nope. But we sure can make up a lot of stuff about it.
End FACTS.
My opinion H&M ought to stop whining and I don’t know...do something useful with their privilege. Visit the Queen and Prince Phillip and offer solice during this awful time.
I have always thought more of Harry was better than this.

 

[Karen-W]

Omg stop the presses! Guillotine for Harry! Off with his head!
There's so much shit I don't remember from my childhood.

It isn't about 'shit I don't remember from my childhood' but about the sheer number of factual inaccuracies that keep piling up from that interview. It calls into question everything they presented as 'truthful'.

Seriously, if Trump had given an interview like this, littered with factually inaccurate statements, you and most of the M&H defenders here would be all over him, calling him out as a lying liar who lies. But, because M&H are supporting an issue you feel passionate about or discussing the current cause célèbre, it's okay that they stretched the truth or, in some cases, flat out lied. Please.

 

[becca]

@becca you said you voted for Trump AGAIN in 2020. Isn't that twice?

I am not sure where you got that from I am telling you now I did not vote for him twice I have always had major issues with him.

Oh I am not going to defend Blackamoor jewelery or colonists and natives parties

 

[canbelto]

It isn't about 'shit I don't remember from my childhood' but about the sheer number of factual inaccuracies that keep piling up from that interview. It calls into question everything they presented as 'truthful'.

Seriously, if Trump had given an interview like this, littered with factually inaccurate statements, you and most of the M&H defenders here would be all over him, calling him out as a lying liar who lies. But, because M&H are supporting an issue you feel passionate about or discussing the current cause célèbre, it's okay that they stretched the truth or, in some cases, flat out lied. Please.

Trump lies about huge shit. Like saying we had CV "totally under control" a year ago or we were "rounding the corner" on CV when we were in fact well into the third wave. That irresponsibility killed hundreds of thousands. So Harry doesn't remember riding a bike with his dad. Big effing deal. I don't remember a lot of shit from my childhood, even when shown pictures that it happened.

 

[clairecloutier]

It may be true that Charles previously wanted to cut down the number of royals with full titles. Putting it into practice for the first biracial grandchild is totally tone-deaf at best.

This. Be aware of the implications of things. It isn't that hard.

When you look at the long view, the way I see it, the BRF had only one real choice when Meghan married into the family. As the first POC in the family, what they needed to do was 1) fully embrace her and 2) educate themselves about systemic racism and specifically the history of racism/colonialism in Great Britain. Like, seriously, they should have all taken training on this, just as employees in the U.S. are now taking anti-racism and anti-bias training for their jobs.

Trying to ignore the issue of race was stupid and pointless, because the tabloids were on it from day 1. The only appropriate response was to close ranks around Meghan. They didn't do that.

For all that the Firm is a family business, it's not run in a very businesslike manner.

 

[millyskate]

There were literally members of that family sniggering. Rude regardless of how kindly you try to spin it and strangely only in response to a black man speaking. From people trained to have best poker faces in Britain? Please give me a break that they couldn't do better at pretending/concealing such an obnoxious reaction. I personally prefer to have seen the truth but let's not now pretend that behaviour can be excused.

For what its worth I doubt Charles was the person who made the comments at the centre of the racism claims. It doesn't align to what seem to be his attitudes in general. But that doesn't mean the rest of his family get a pass - Phillip and Andrew are both already on record as having made racist jokes or comments in the past and those claims hella predate Meghan. Phillip has been excused. No reason to assume Andrew is the only other amongst the family who might have made the comments in question.

Thanks for your thoughts. I know that many of the racist incidents escape my attention. I hadn't noticed anything untoward at the wedding ceremony and I also had missed out on many of the horrible things said in various papers - because they are not the ones I read.

The Royals may have been moving to the no Prince titles but Archie is the first who is a descendent of a Prince and his grandfather will be King someday, as well as his Uncle and Cousin. The first in the linage to be treated this way. There has to be feelings of a "less than" and questioning by the parents if it's because of biracial heritage. White people can claim it's not - it was a change long due, etc. But im sure it doesn't feel like that to the people who are experiencing it.

This is a really good point. It's very helpful to articulate that nuance - rather than dressing a set of facts against another.

It's easy to forget to what extent context and perspective play a part in the way people genuinely experience the same events in a different way.
For my part I'm sorry for expressing so many doubts about H&M's motives. Ultimately, I don't know anything of them and it's not my place to judge.

 

[AxelAnnie]

@becca is the same person who voted twice for Trump and couldn't get why people would think that was a racist act. I mean, seriously.

Huh?

 

[becca]

I do think it would have been wise for the royal family to make those changes before Harry married anyone preferably when Edwards kids were born. Or when the changed things for Kate and Williams kids

But if this was always Charles plan I have had a hard time thinking he didn’t tell Harry years ago and long before He met Meghan.

We didn’t know. If Charles made those expectations clear before Meghan was in the picture it’s really not fair to say it’s a race thing.
I know the Swedish royals said their father told them years ago he would take HRH from his kids names. Maybe the Swedish way is better Prince but no HRH.

Queen Elizabeth grand children all but William and Harry were all told they won’t be working royals.
With HRH reserved for working royals and minor children of the monarch/heir.

 

[once_upon]

More 'truth' exposed as lies - Guess what? Harry rode a bike with his dad as a child. Just another example of Meghan and Harry's "truth" being factually inaccurate.

I dont remember my childhood in the same light as my parents or pictures "might" prove. Recently I found pictures of mom with a baby carriage that I assume was me in it. But I certainly do no remember my parents being as proud or as loving to me as they were to my siblings. Does that make my memories wrong?
My parents didn't buy me a car, but my sister got one. Does that make a difference?

my youngest feels he didn't get the same amount of attention that his brothers did, although we can point to huge advantages he had. Does that make his experiences any different that what he sees as his truth..

the answer is No

I do think it would have been wise for the royal family to make those changes before Harry married anyone preferably when Edwards kids were born. Or when the changed things for Kate and Williams kids

But if this was always Charles plan I have had a hard time thinking he didn’t tell Harry years ago and long before He met Meghan.

But in H and M perception he did not.
Also no one heard about this direct line of changes before this - at least i didn't. Yeah reduce the inconsequential Royals, but not the level of your sons.

 

[becca]

I dont remember my childhood in the same light as my parents or pictures "might" prove. Recently I found pictures of mom with a baby carriage that I assume was me in it. But I certainly do no remember my parents being as proud or as loving to me as they were to my siblings. Does that make my memories wrong?
My parents didn't buy me a car, but my sister got one. Does that make a difference?

my youngest feels he didn't get the same amount of attention that his brothers did, although we can point to huge advantages he had. Does that make his experiences any different that what he sees as his truth..

the answer is No


But in H and M perception he did not.
Also no one heard about this direct line of changes before this - at least i didn't. Yeah reduce the inconsequential Royals, but not the level of your sons.

But the “inconsequential” royal were also grandchilden of the monarch at one point. Which is the issue.

There is nothing fair about the monarchy in general nothing. But in a hereditary monarchy birth order matters and some people have more importance.

But let’s face it it’s also unfair he got opportunity to do royal duties and others didn’t and had a 14.5 million dollar house all because of his hereditary position of Prince.
So while he doesn’t get to be top dog his position had given him tremendous privilege.

A lot of monarchy’s are saying now only the children of the direct heir will be HRH it saves tax dollars.

No doubt he was treated differently well he got a lot of benefits and has responsibilities than his brother too. Nothing about monarchy is fair

 

[MsZem]

Also no one heard about this direct line of changes before this - at least i didn't. Yeah reduce the inconsequential Royals, but not the level of your sons.

I don't agree with becca on much, but it's a fair point that a number of people well down the line of succession are the grandchildren of a monarch: the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent, Prince Michael of Kent, and Princess Alexandra are all grandchildren of George V. All four were at least as high in the line of succession when they were born as Archie is now.

If you want to reduce the size of the monarchy, you have to either do it retroactively and strip people of titles, which I believe would be unprecedented (BRF experts, correct me if I am wrong), or do it prospectively.

However, I agree with those who pointed out that it would look very bad to make such a change if the descendant in question is the first (officially) biracial grandchild of a monarch.

 

[starrynight]

I still don't understand why a family that intend to raise their children in the USA as Americans, so badly want their son and daughter to be a prince and princess of the United Kingdom? I'd honestly be surprised if the family ever returns to the UK.

Surely after what Harry and Meghan feel they have experienced, they would be pleased that their children can have lives as private citizens?

I suspect that in the aristocratic world, these titles are the centre of the universe and hence the obsession with them.

 

[MacMadame]

I didn’t vote for Trump twice

This is true. But you voted for him in 2020 after we all knew what he was. To me, that means you don't get to dictate to anyone about racial matters and your opinions on this topic have no validity. This is true of anyone who voted for Trump in 2020, not just you.

Thanks for your thoughts. I know that many of the racist incidents escape my attention. I hadn't noticed anything untoward at the wedding ceremony and I also had missed out on many of the horrible things said in various papers - because they are not the ones I read.

It's interesting you didn't notice anything because the US media did make an issue of it. I think they were pissed off because reacting that way to the Rev. was seen as a personal insult to a way of preaching that is very acceptable in the US.

More 'truth' exposed as lies - Guess what? Harry rode a bike with his dad as a child. Just another example of Meghan and Harry's "truth" being factually inaccurate.

I consider this more an example of you being obtuse and looking for things to support your preconceived notions. It requires taking everything that was said in the interview quite literally and even sometimes adding in something that wasn't even said and then going AHA! over this inaccurate interpretation.

Do you really think Archie's upbringing is going to be like Harry's was? It's well documented that Charles was a distant father. And growing up royal means growing up with many restrictions and fewer happy-go-lucky moments than a typical non-royal kid. I am sure Archie is going to do a lot more with his parents than Harry did with his especially as I doubt they'll send him off to boarding school at the age of EIGHT like happened to Harry.

And it’s unfair my child is treated differently than the Cambridge kids

Except that's not what they said. Neither Meghan nor Harry said they were pissed off that Archie wasn't going to be a Prince. They said they were worried because things like security would not be afforded to him unless he was a Prince and that he wasn't going to be a prince when he and they were getting death threats. They never said anything about the Cambridges when talking about Archie's titles or lack thereof either.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't agree with becca on much, but it's a fair point that a number of people well down the line of succession are the grandchildren of a monarch: the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent, Prince Michael of Kent, and Princess Alexandra are all grandchildren of George V. All four were at least as high in the line of succession when they were born as Archie is now.

If you want to reduce the size of the monarchy, you have to either do it retroactively and strip people of titles, which I believe would be unprecedented (BRF experts, correct me if I am wrong), or do it prospectively.

However, I agree with those who pointed out that it would look very bad to make such a change if the descendant in question is the first (officially) biracial grandchild of a monarch.

Well, part of the problem, and part of the reason why the 2012 Letters Patent that gave all of William's kids the HRH instead of just the eldest son, is that right now the Queen has 2 male-line grandchildren (Bea & Eugenie) who are HRHs and 2 other male-line grandchildren (Louise & James) who, according to Sophie are entitled to use the HRH but instead are styled as the children of an Earl.

If it was just her first cousins, all of whom have served as working royals most of their adult lives, save Prince Michael, then I think it would have been easy for her to issue an LP that grants the HRH style only to the spouse of the monarch (Philip), children of the monarch (Charles, Anne, Andrew, & Edward) + spouses (Camilla, Tim, & Sophie), the children of the heir (William & Harry) + spouses (Catherine & Meghan), and the children of the heir's heir (George, Charlotte, & Louis), plus anyone who was eligible under the 1917 LP born before she ascended to the throne (Dukes of Kent & Gloucester, Princess Alexandra, & Prince Michael) + spouses (Duchesses of Kent & Gloucester & Princess Michael).

But, because she had Andrew screaming bloody-effing murder over Bea & Eugenie losing their RPOs the year before and she was still trying to wade through the sticky wicket of the public not really wanting the York Princesses to become working royals (which is what Charles was responding to, in large part, in his desire to 'slim down' the monarchy), she just gave the HRH to William's kids and left it to Charles and his advisers to figure out how to write a new Letters Patent when he ascended the throne. I suspect, in kicking the can down the road, she hoped that by the time she passes, Bea & Eugenie will be well-set up as private citizens and won't care one way or the other if they keep their HRHs. She very well could be right in that, or, well, we might well see one or both of them stepping in to help out William & Catherine as the older generations retire/die.

 

[taf2002]

I notice every single biracial couple in TV commercials and there are a lot more than even ten years ago. And every time I notice, I kick myself for noticing.

It may be true that Charles previously wanted to cut down the number of royals with full titles. Putting it into practice for the first biracial grandchild is totally tone-deaf at best.

I don't think there's anything wrong with noticing. You wouldn't feel bad about noticing any other fact about a couple of the same race. So one of them is a POC & the other isn't - this is a fact, not a commentary. Now if you were like either of my sisters you would have eville thoughts about this pairing but I don't think that's the case with you.

 

[canbelto]

I still don't understand why a family that intend to raise their children in the USA as Americans, so badly want their son and daughter to be a prince and princess of the United Kingdom? I'd honestly be surprised if the family ever returns to the UK.

Surely after what Harry and Meghan feel they have experienced, they would be pleased that their children can have lives as private citizens?

I suspect that in the aristocratic world, these titles are the centre of the universe and hence the obsession with them.

As someone who once knew a minor aristocrat, this is very true. To someone who has no clue how these titles are given out or inherited it was a bit bizarre but even in emails one had to address him as "sir." He also recoiled at the thought of attending a football game because that was a "commoners' game." So it's sort of on brand that Harry would think titles are a big deal.

 

[becca]

This is true. But you voted for him in 2020 after we all knew what he was. To me, that means you don't get to dictate to anyone about racial matters and your opinions on this topic have no validity. This is true of anyone who voted for Trump in 2020, not just you.


It's interesting you didn't notice anything because the US media did make an issue of it. I think they were pissed off because reacting that way to the Rev. was seen as a personal insult to a way of preaching that is very acceptable in the US.


I consider this more an example of you being obtuse and looking for things to support your preconceived notions. It requires taking everything that was said in the interview quite literally and even sometimes adding in something that wasn't even said and then going AHA! over this inaccurate interpretation.

Do you really think Archie's upbringing is going to be like Harry's was? It's well documented that Charles was a distant father. And growing up royal means growing up with many restrictions and fewer happy-go-lucky moments than a typical non-royal kid. I am sure Archie is going to do a lot more with his parents than Harry did with his especially as I doubt they'll send him off to boarding school at the age of EIGHT like happened to Harry.


Except that's not what they said. Neither Meghan nor Harry said they were pissed off that Archie wasn't going to be a Prince. They said they were worried because things like security would not be afforded to him unless he was a Prince and that he wasn't going to be a prince when he and they were getting death threats. They never said anything about the Cambridges when talking about Archie's titles or lack thereof either.

If only one group of people is talking about race matters people who voted liberal. Well one wonders if any thing will change. I know plenty of minorities who voted for Trump. I did not like Trumps rhetoric but he did not enact things like criminal justice reform. However after his actions after the election he will never have my vote. This thread is not political.

Meghan did say her son was going to be treated differently than any other grandchild. So yeah that’s bringing up the Cambridge’s.
And the York Princess don’t have security so HRH security.

I have a hard time thinking that Archie is the only other one of the Queen’s grand kids/great grandkids besides the Cambridge’s that could be targeted or gets death threats.

If you are someone like Isis anyone of this kids could be a target really.And the Queen would be just as affected. Zara has a high profile.

However the British tax payer cannot afford the costs for the all and Harry had an opportunity for security the rest we’re denied.

I do think it sucks Archie would be the first and the Queen certainly kicked the can down the curb.

One could point that I think many royals may feel Zara and Peter benefited from not being raised as minor royals. It was drilled into their heads they wouldn’t be working royals they would make their own way.

That the big title attention when you will never be king/Queen can make it hard to have other opportunities. People say Peter Phillips is one of the more modest of the Queens grandchildren who isn’t telling everyone who he is.

 

[starrynight]

As someone who once knew a minor aristocrat, this is very true. To someone who has no clue how these titles are given out or inherited it was a bit bizarre but even in emails one had to address him as "sir." He also recoiled at the thought of attending a football game because that was a "commoners' game." So it's sort of on brand that Harry would think titles are a big deal.

Yeah. It's like how he would try to act 'normal' and then there he is complaining about Prince titles and how thank goodness he has $30million in the bank or they wouldn't be able to cope.

I suspect Harry would actually be fundamentally horrified about the idea of abolishing the monarchy and aristocratic system, because that is the sole place that he gets his platform and relevancy from.

That the big title and security when you will never be king/Queen can make it hard to have other opportunities.

Yes. When there is taxpayer funded security, there is restrictions on where they can go due to expense and logistics. The happiest existence a royal could have is to blend into the background to the point where they could move around pretty anonymously - not as a prince or princess.

 

[becca]

Yeah. It's like how he would try to act 'normal' and then there he is complaining about Prince titles and how thank goodness he has $30million in the bank or they wouldn't be able to cope.

I suspect Harry would actually be fundamentally horrified about the idea of abolishing the monarchy and aristocratic system, because that is the sole place that he gets his platform and relevancy from.



Yes. When there is taxpayer funded security, there is restrictions on where they can go due to expense and logistics. The happiest existence a royal could have is to blend into the background to the point where they could move around pretty anonymously - not as a prince or princess.

Yes. You have to wonder with Edward and being treated like the after thought all his life maybe turned out so well. He is the only one of the Queens kids to have a successful marriage and he seems to be keen on raising his kids not to expect much. Most be harder when there aren’t other siblings to who are spares.

I think Edward and Sophie will be working royals their whole lives as will Anne.

Thats the thing Meghan did mention her kids were going to be treated and It frankly should have been made clear to her that her kids were going to be a different rank than the kids of a King.

And frankly if done right he might be way better off than Louis and Charlotte who will have to live in that fish bowl without the role of the monarch. Where’s Archie really could get less attention.

But if it goes on to look it’s unfair your treated differently it won’t be good...

 

[overedge]

Another FACT. Princess Michael of Kent. She wore a Blackamoor pin in Meghan's presence. Blackamoor art is a European art style from the Early Modern period, depicting highly stylized figures of black people. Common examples of items and objects decorated in the blackamoor style include sculpture,. jewellery, furniture, and decorative art.
Princess Michael of Kent chose to wear a Blackamoor which was a gift to an occasion at the Palace where Meghan was present. She has since promised not to wear the broach. End FACTS.
Do we know her intent? Nope. But we sure can make up a lot of stuff about it.

FACT: The "highly stylized figures of black people" in Blackamoor art are often depictions of slaves, and exoticize (look it up) POC as being different and unusual.

FACT: It doesn't matter how she acquired the brooch. That's not relevant to its being racist.

FACT: The event where Princess Michael wore the brooch was the Queen's annual Xmas lunch, which was also one of the first family events that Meghan was invited to when she became Harry's girlfriend.

FACT: It was well known by that point that Meghan was biracial.


Her intent isn't relevant. If she meant to do it, she is racist. If she did it by mistake - as in, just happened to choose that one brooch on that one day, out of all the jewelry she has - then she's stupid.

 

[starrynight]

The weird thing with titles is that I think aristocrats would believe the die is cast as to their kids' futures at birth with that title.

So it would be the idea that Archie/daughter would be inferior due to not being Prince/Princess.

Which says a lot about the way aristocrats - including Harry and Meghan - view the world.

Whereas in the real world, with the backing of extreme wealth and opportunity, the world is going to be what those two kids make of it themselves.

For example Zara Tindall has no title - but she's an Olympic silver medalist and is easily the highest achiever of that whole generation of her family.

 

[becca]

FACT: The "highly stylized figures of black people" in Blackamoor art are often depictions of slaves, and exoticize (look it up) POC as being different and unusual.

FACT: The event where Princess Michael wore the brooch was the Queen's annual Xmas lunch, which was also one of the first family events that Meghan was invited to when she became Harry's girlfriend.

FACT: It was well known by that point that Meghan was biracial.

Her intent isn't relevant. If she meant to do it, she is racist. If she did it by mistake - as in, just happened to choose that one brooch on that one day, out of all the jewelry she has - then she's stupid.

I am not going to defend her actions. Another reason why the monarchy should be slimmed down.

I agree the kids of royals still have great access to wealth and privilege and maybe don’t have to be King/Queen.

Pippa married a billionaire. And had a private life doesn’t have to trout her kids out.

Chelsy Davy a billionaire daughter was like heck no.

A lot of aristocratic women did not want to date William so not all of them see the palace life as a plus.

I am sure the Queen will be leaving very nice trust funds to all of her grandkids and great grandkids

 

[starrynight]

I am not going to defend her actions. Another reason why the monarchy should be slimmed down.

Yeah I know. Fringe rogue members of the royal family are a bit of a liability and Princess Michael of Kent proves that. If you research her, she's crazy. And that title enabled this random crazy to embarrass herself, her family and her country on international scale.

The monarchy should be slimmed to a small group that are carefully managed and educated about the significance and obligation of their roles.

I just don't see how it is possible to have a couple of American raised children living LA lives styled as HRH. That could just also be a total political and diplomatic minefield into the future as they become adults and get jobs and lives in the US. And for them, having some kind of obligation to a country they've never lived in and don't understand would be very difficult to navigate.