Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

MacMadame

Staying at home
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You can't go around bullying people and then play victim.
I don't think texting someone at 5am is bullying. It's rude and demanding but that isn't the same thing.

I really hate it when people use the word bullying to cover all bad behavior. Bullying is specific and it cheapens the experience of people who have actually been bullied to call any mistreatment that.

Oh the Queen/staff def would have known. But they cannot refuse a gift.
Would have known what? I didn't say they didn't know they were from Saudia Arabia. How could they have not known that when they were handed over by the dude from Saudia Arabia himself. What I am saying is that the royal family has shown repeatedly that they don't find their relationship with Saudia Arabia to be problematic. So those jewels to the Queen would be no different than if France gave them to Meghan.

i’m curious how many people here are from the U.K.? I’m also curious if anyone is old enough to have grown up during the Diana years?
I was married with a kid when Diana died. There are many middle-aged women on FSU. I'd be more surprised if the majority here didn't live through those years.
 

Oreo

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539
My s.o. used to work at Windsor Castle in royalty protection. A few years back some of his colleagues told me about the bad behavior of Meghan, but they didn’t call it bullying. They weren’t impressed, let’s put it that way. The one whom they all universally despised and would put in the bully category was Andrew.
 

puglover

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Rumours, again, but I thought it was alleged that Kate had some issues with how Meghan had spoken to staff and that was at least part of why the decision for them all to live comfortably together in their own apartments in Kensington Palace was a no go.
 

Judy

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I don't think texting someone at 5am is bullying. It's rude and demanding but that isn't the same thing.

I really hate it when people use the word bullying to cover all bad behavior. Bullying is specific and it cheapens the experience of people who have actually been bullied to call any mistreatment that.


Would have known what? I didn't say they didn't know they were from Saudia Arabia. How could they have not known that when they were handed over by the dude from Saudia Arabia himself. What I am saying is that the royal family has shown repeatedly that they don't find their relationship with Saudia Arabia to be problematic. So those jewels to the Queen would be no different than if France gave them to Meghan.


I was married with a kid when Diana died. There are many middle-aged women on FSU. I'd be more surprised if the majority here didn't live through those years.
I was merely curious about who grew up during that time. There are various age groups here.

The Saudi Arabia prince wasn’t invited to the wedding nor were other political leaders. I am clueless how gifts are sent though .. likely shipped?

I had to google but my country donated 50K to both Will and Kate’s charity of choice and same for Meghan and Harry.

Charle’s was next in line to the throne so political leaders were invited. I googled and found this though for gifts. Omg what do you do with it all.

 
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MsZem

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Honestly there's no way for any of us to know what went on - there are multiple narratives and perspectives from those involved. Remarks and behaviors that may have been well-intentioned could have been perceived otherwise.

Assuming things did go wrong, my guess is that some of it is a culture clash. Those of us who have moved to other countries know how challenging it can be, and that's without being part of the most high-profile family on earth and dealing with, well, everything Meghan dealt with as a royal girlfriend/fiancée/wife. Some of it may be Harry's issues; he's certainly gone through a lot in his life, and it must affect how he deals with many things. It could also be that Meghan felt like she needed or wanted to play a certain role, but lacked experience with the system and the context to understand how to go about it effectively.

So even if everyone meant well, things could have gotten out of hand. And now, with the exception of Doria, it seems like Meghan and Harry are estranged from both their families. I find that sad. Harry at least has a large extended family, and I can't imagine they're all toxic or unfeeling.
 
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overedge

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There was a documentary several years ago (sorry, I'm blanking on the title) that in one scene showed Charles and staff working on his schedule for the coming year. Charles was whining and complaining about all the boring events he had to go to. No one in the room said anything, although in a "regular" workplace someone might have said, tactfully, that he had a very privileged position and comfortable lifestyle, and going to those events was part of his responsibilities.

The Royals have grown up in that kind of environment. Yes, they have contact with regular people, but they don't have much idea of how the rest of the world operates, particularly workplaces - which is a problem when the Household is an employer. The traditional master-servant relationship is exactly the kind of workplace relationship that modern employment law was set up to counteract. The BRF may have called for an investigation into Meghan's alleged bullying, and I'm sure they have "real world" advisors telling them what this means, but I would not be surprised if they expect a loyalist to pretend to do an investigation and then say "it was all her fault, and no one told us so we couldn't do anything about it at the time."

I was thinking about this kind of lack of connection to the "normal world" not too long ago when I read Lady Anne Glenconner's book (which is really good BTW). Her husband had a temper where, if he didn't get his way, he would throw full-scale tantrums like a little kid - lying on the ground, screaming, kicking his feet, etc. This wasn't just in private - it was also in public places like airplanes and concert halls. In the normal world, if he did this, he would have been fired from whatever job he held, or sent for counselling and possibly psychiatric help. But in the world of titled people, he was just an eccentric, and because he had money and could be charming the rest of the time, he was allowed to carry on with that behaviour. And she tolerated it. I have to admit that while I admired her and enjoyed her story of her life, I came away from the book thinking that the world of the aristocracy is really weird and these people live in a bubble.
 
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starrynight

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The reason it's so disappointing when public figures that paint themselves as perfect mess up is that it puts their supporters in positions where they find themselves discrediting things and going against their values.

Much like how this seems to have resulted in some areas with people (who I'm sure don't mean to be doing it) sounding like old men from the '50s when they say women in the workplace must just be 'too sensitive' and 'not up to the job' when they say they feel bullied.

The whole 'why did they come out about it now, years later, must be fake' thing is also used a common defence by people when they get accused of things, but we all know that shouldn't hold any water.
 

Jenny

From the Bloc
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21,428
And now, with the exception of Doria, it seems like Meghan and Harry are estranged from both their families. I find that sad. Harry at least has a large extended family, and I can't imagine they're all toxic or unfeeling.

It is a shame, because it did seem in the past that Harry and his grandmother in particular were close.
 

canbelto

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The reason it's so disappointing when public figures that paint themselves as perfect mess up is that it puts their supporters in positions where they find themselves discrediting things and going against their values.

Much like how this seems to have resulted in some areas with people sounding like old men from the '50s when they say women in the workplace must just be 'too sensitive' and 'not up to the job' when they say they feel bullied.

It sounds like Ellen DeGeneres. Her brand was "be kind" but her rep as a boss is not exactly "kind." This past summer some stories about working for the show went viral. I've heard way, way worse but it hurt her "be kind" brand.

I think the reason no one comes out with stories of CHarles not being that nice to work for is everyone already expects him to be a fussy, high maintenance man.
 

MsZem

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I think the reason no one comes out with stories of CHarles not being that nice to work for is everyone already expects him to be a fussy, high maintenance man.
It is very on brand.

The benefits of spending your life doing as you please (in legal ways, unlike his brother) is that eventually people just assume this is how you should behave (if you have power, privilege etc.).
 

canbelto

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I'm also sort of wondering what Margaret or Anne are/were like to work for. I actually know someone who had the displeasure of waiting on Margaret when she went to the Royal Opera House and the stories ... I can;t imagine Anne being a breeze either.

But again, I think when being haughty/fussy is already built into your brand, there's less chatter.
 

starrynight

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Normally to be in such a senior position in a huge organisation, it would take a whole career of progressing through management ranks and proving strong people management skills. However, with the royals, it's either an accident of birth or just being parachuted into that position by marriage. Not surprised there's all sorts of issues.

It seems likely that Harry and Meghan are going to be talking a fair bit about how they were badly treated by 'The Firm'. That's either his family members or by their staff or both.

I think that if the staff thought they were going to be spoken badly about on an international platform, they were entitled to publicise the bullying complaints to tell their side. I think that's a fair position.

If Harry and Meghan are going to do a huge public tell all in the most dramatic fashion, it can only be expected that it will open the floodgates on all sides.
 
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Jenny

From the Bloc
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21,428
I really hope they don't waste this opportunity by rehashing all the reasons why they left and how hard it's been for them. If they really want to do some good in the world, now is the time to talk about that - and not just in vague terms, but an actual plan, hopefully backed up by actions already taken and progress achieved.
 

starrynight

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It sounds like Ellen DeGeneres. Her brand was "be kind" but her rep as a boss is not exactly "kind." This past summer some stories about working for the show went viral. I've heard way, way worse but it hurt her "be kind" brand.
Yeah I remember when that all came out, someone mentioned it to me, and my response was 'how could anyone be surprised that a Hollywood superstar is a narcissistic bully?' Honestly I am more surprised when you hear stories of these people being genuinely nice.
 

Lemonade20

Former Kurtholic
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1,281
Bullying is a strong word, I agree. But there's always three sides to a story, Meghan's, the staff and the truth. Unless you were there, no one really knows what exactly happened. Maybe Meghan asked them to do something and they took it the wrong way. Or they did something that displeased Meghan and she was upset. I do believe that more time (and preparing) would have helped. Kate had 8 years to pick up on all of this, but even she wasn't immune to the tabloids
 
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Judy

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I am reading Finding Freedom (free with my library card and can read it online). I knew he was in somewhat dangerous areas with the military but didn’t realize how dangerous. When he left he had .. I think it said 5 ... breakdowns due to military and William had to intercede to get him help. Unfortunately that isn’t unusual for military worldwide.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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What I am saying is that the royal family has shown repeatedly that they don't find their relationship with Saudia Arabia to be problematic. So those jewels to the Queen would be no different than if France gave them to Meghan.
This. Has anyone heard a peep from the British Royal Family against Saudi Arabia or any of their royal cousins in the Saudi Royal Family, even now?

It would have been a national insult to the Saudis if they had been given to the Queen and no one important enough had been seen wearing them. And since the current narrative is that they were given to the Queen as a wedding present to MM, if she hadn't worn the earings publicly where this would be photographed and advertised, it would have been a national insult to Saudi Arabia and a personal insult to MBS.

The British Royal families, like almost all Royal Families, do not do this. That would be contrary to norms and political, a heresy.
 

starrynight

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The Royals have grown up in that kind of environment. Yes, they have contact with regular people, but they don't have much idea of how the rest of the world operates, particularly workplaces - which is a problem when the Household is an employer. The traditional master-servant relationship is exactly the kind of workplace relationship that modern employment law was set up to counteract.

I was thinking about this kind of lack of connection to the "normal world" not too long ago when I read Lady Anne Glenconner's book (which is really good BTW). Her husband had a temper where, if he didn't get his way, he would throw full-scale tantrums like a little kid - lying on the ground, screaming, kicking his feet, etc. In the normal world, if he did this, he would have been fired from whatever job he held, or sent for counselling and possibly psychiatric help. But in the world of titled people, he was just an eccentric, and because he had money and could be charming the rest of the time, he was allowed to carry on with that behaviour. And she tolerated it. I have to admit that while I admired her and enjoyed her story of her life, I came away from the book thinking that the world of the aristocracy is really weird and these people live in a bubble.
Omg yes.

I reckon also some of those royals would have employees who are borderline 'vampires familiars' like Renfield who would creep along behind them doing anything of their bidding because of the reflected 'glory' of royalty. Much like some famous musicians and actors have employees like that too.

I mean, gosh, what an environment. Given the extent to which the royals would probably preside over the household, I'd say they'd have to behave pretty badly to get reproached.

And it is likely that better behaviour was expected from Meghan than others because Meghan is a regular person who has existed in the real world and shouldn't have any kind of in-built entitlement to bad behaviour. Maybe that is a double standard - but I don't think other people being worse is exactly a free pass either.
 
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canbelto

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5,651
And it is likely that better behaviour was expected from Meghan than others because Meghan is a regular person who has existed in the real world and shouldn't have any kind of in-built entitlement to bad behaviour. Maybe that is a double standard - but I don't think other people being worse is exactly a free pass either.
I read that in the first few years staff didn't like Kate because as a "regular person" she was accustomed to doing things for herself and didn't see the need for a servant for every little errand. And a few aides quit because they felt she was "taking their job" by wanting to do things for herself.

I feel like there's a huge learning curve in managing a royal household if you didn't grow up royal.
 

clairecloutier

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I don't think texting someone at 5am is bullying. It's rude and demanding but that isn't the same thing.

I think this is an interesting point. There are a lot of unpleasant, mean, and unfair bosses out there. I once worked for one of them. I hated her--but I wouldn't call her a bully. She made my work life very unpleasant, but not in the sense of being personally bullied. I think of bullying as involving personal insults, put-downs, threats, etc. Being sworn or yelled at, or asked to do unlawful or possibly dangerous things. I don't know what the technical definition is?

Assuming things did go wrong, my guess is that some of it is a culture clash. Those of us who have moved to other countries know how challenging it can be, and that's without being part of the most high-profile family on earth and dealing with, well, everything Meghan dealt with as a royal girlfriend/fiancée/wife.

This is my guess too--that some of this had to do with culture clash. In Hollywood, it may be normal for a star to text an assistant at 5 a.m. It's not totally abnormal for a regular boss in the U.S. to email someone at 5 a.m. I don't actually see the problem, as long as they don't expect an immediate response? But maybe this is considered beyond the pale in the traditional royal household. It seems like there is a whole world of etiquette expectations around the BRF that no layperson, and certainly no American, could be expected to know. Like, I started reading one of the Twitter threads about the rules around royal jewelry, and felt my head was going to explode. How on earth is anyone supposed to remember all this?! It is surely easier if you're at least part of that culture to begin with.

I also feel that it's likely that breaches of etiquette on Meghan's part were probably met with a much stronger reaction than might have been the case if she were British.
 

canbelto

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I might have mentioned this but I have a boss that sends out missives at 4 am. I get email anxiety and am extremely sensitive to notification sounds on my phone. People actually had to have a staff meeting to tell management that the 4 am emails were causing stress. The management genuinely did not know -- to the big boss, he wakes up at 4 and has a list of "to-do" items and sends out emails before he starts his day. He didn't get how not everyone is on his schedule.

Hollywood sets often start shooting early especially if they are on location. A 5 am text might have been normal behavior for Meghan. For royal staff it might have been an imposition considering their entire existence might be to cater to some very high-maintenance, fussy people. So they might feel like off the clock is off the clock.
 

overedge

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Yeah I remember when that all came out, someone mentioned it to me, and my response was 'how could anyone be surprised that a Hollywood superstar is a narcissistic bully?' Honestly I am more surprised when you hear stories of these people being genuinely nice.
Rosie O'Donnell promoted herself as being "the Queen of Nice" and we all know how that turned out too.
 

overedge

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29,796
I might have mentioned this but I have a boss that sends out missives at 4 am. I get email anxiety and am extremely sensitive to notification sounds on my phone. People actually had to have a staff meeting to tell management that the 4 am emails were causing stress. The management genuinely did not know -- to the big boss, he wakes up at 4 and has a list of "to-do" items and sends out emails before he starts his day. He didn't get how not everyone is on his schedule.

Hollywood sets often start shooting early especially if they are on location. A 5 am text might have been normal behavior for Meghan. For royal staff it might have been an imposition considering their entire existence might be to cater to some very high-maintenance, fussy people. So they might feel like off the clock is off the clock.

"Off the clock" should be "off the clock" all the time, no matter what kind of person you work for. Unless it's the President of the US or some similarly critical position, and they get a notification of nuclear war about to break out or something equally dangerous. I don't think whatever Meghan was emailing people about at 5 am would be in that category of importance.
 

canbelto

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"Off the clock" should be "off the clock" all the time, no matter what kind of person you work for. Unless it's the President of the US or some similarly critical position, and they get a notification of nuclear war about to break out or something equally dangerous. I don't think whatever Meghan was emailing people about at 5 am would be in that category of importance.

As I said, our company has a rule that we must respond to all email action items within 24 hours, whether or not we are on vacation. And we must respond to all emails during nights, weekends, early mornings, etc. They even harassed someone who was in the hospital getting emergency surgery that he didn't respond to an email within the 24 hour time frame.

I also once had a boss that sort of implied that the world would be better off without me.

Mean bosses are everywhere.
 

puglover

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Prince Philip seems to be beloved although not always conventional, possessing a naughty sense of humour, some say straightforward and others rude. He is known for wicked quips and even he admits his ability to put his foot in his mouth and make gaffs. He gave up his naval career and had to fight to have his own children bear his name and yet he has been a true support to his wife all these decades.

I think I would really enjoy Princess Anne. She is unpretentious and goes about doing what she is asked without a lot of fanfare. She did not accept titles for her children and just seems like a fun, outdoorsy, horse loving, hardworking woman.

I guess what I am trying to say is they all seem to be unique fellow human beings living unnatural lives. I hope Harry and Meghan do not burn these bridges and their children can grow up with this family connection.
 

starrynight

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I genuinely think Harry hates the media intrusion into his life and would much rather live a more natural life.

So I don’t understand why he is basically tearing strips off himself to feed to the media like this. Because when he’s kept to himself in California, he’s basically been free to get about unbothered. But I don’t imagine that will be the case now.

Media organisations world over have basically been in state of climax all week over this. And next week they’ll practically be in fits over how much material has been offered up to them. There’s going to be so much that they’ll be able to pick over for years here. And it’s all going to be handed to them on a silver platter. And as the media has been invited in, there’s not a lot that can be done to stop them.
 
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overedge

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29,796
As I said, our company has a rule that we must respond to all email action items within 24 hours, whether or not we are on vacation. And we must respond to all emails during nights, weekends, early mornings, etc. They even harassed someone who was in the hospital getting emergency surgery that he didn't respond to an email within the 24 hour time frame.

I also once had a boss that sort of implied that the world would be better off without me.

Mean bosses are everywhere.

I know, I've had them too. But I think an employment standards regulator might have something to say about employees being required to respond to email "action items" within 24 hours while on vacation. Basically, that's illegal.
 

MacMadame

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I'm also sort of wondering what Margaret or Anne are/were like to work for. I actually know someone who had the displeasure of waiting on Margaret when she went to the Royal Opera House and the stories ... I can;t imagine Anne being a breeze either.

But again, I think when being haughty/fussy is already built into your brand, there's less chatter.
When Anne was young, she had a reputation of being "difficult." However, a lot of it had to be with being a blunt person and a woman and the world was way more sexist back then.

It's quite possible that Meghan is hard to work for but she has had employees and been an employee before and we don't here any of her work colleagues or bosses or employees from those jobs complaining about her. It's only the BRF. I would have less trouble believing she sucked because she's horrible if everyone complained about her. Instead it's only people in this one world. That says to me that the problem isn't her being a horrible person but something about the situation, whether it be people won't take from her what they'd take others, like with Anne, or her not understanding what was considered acceptable. Or both.

I also once had a boss that sort of implied that the world would be better off without me.
Now that I think would qualify as bullying.

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with sending out emails and texts about work when you are working even if it's at hours other people aren't. AS LONG AS you understand that people aren't obligated to respond until working hours. (Assuming it's not a 24/7 kind of job like being President or a doctor on call.)
 

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