Josh Duggar ('19 Kids and Counting') Arrested by Feds

starrynight

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But Michelle Duggar kept a calendar of her monthly cycle on the refrigerator. All of her children knew what it was. They knew she was pregnant, ovulating, etc as well as she did. What kind of sick sh*t is that?

Just as an aside, as a general observation - not specifically about this family - I think openness about periods is a good thing. I think a lot of girls are raised with periods being a ‘secret and embarrassing’ thing and a bit of openness about it would be good.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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35,877
Just as an aside, as a general observation - not specifically about this family - I think openness about periods is a good thing. I think a lot of girls are raised with periods being a ‘secret and embarrassing’ thing and a bit of openness about it would be good.

I agree, but IIRC there was something that came out when Josh was first arrested, that the girls in the family had to monitor the garbage can in Jim Bob and Michelle's bathroom - and it was their job to keep the record of Michelle's cycles, based on whether there were used tampons or pads in the trash. That's a little too open IMO.
 
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FiveRinger

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Just as an aside, as a general observation - not specifically about this family - I think openness about periods is a good thing. I think a lot of girls are raised with periods being a ‘secret and embarrassing’ thing and a bit of openness about it would be good.
I agree with openness...to a degree. What son needs to know or is interested in his mother's menstrual cycle? That's a lot. Your husband...sure. Your daughters need guidance. That's a welcomed discussion. My mother gave me my first little purse sized calendar. I've graduated to an app. But a calendar on the refrigerator? No. This family has a hard time with boundaries. Their's are inappropriate.
 

Tesla

Whippet Good
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I agree with openness...to a degree. What son needs to know or is interested in his mother's menstrual cycle? That's a lot. Your husband...sure. Your daughters need guidance. That's a welcomed discussion. My mother gave me my first little purse sized calendar. I've graduated to an app. But a calendar on the refrigerator? No. This family has a hard time with boundaries. Their's are inappropriate.
Not to mention Jim Bob dry humping his wife on a mini-golf course in front of their daughter and her fiancé. They will have much to answer for when they meet their maker.

I believe in a higher power, be it gods or goddesses. I have little respect for organized religion, a man-made construct.
 

Jay42

Between the click of the light
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Do I want to know what that is?
It's basically accountability software, it sends reports of what people are looking at to another person. In this case, to Anna Duggar. However Josh partitioned his computer to run Linux as well as the Mac operating system and was downloading the CSA images through Linux so Anna never saw what he was downloading.
 

ЭPiKUilyam

Banned Member
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I am getting so angry that this whole debacle has played out in the public eye for decades for ratings (!!!!) with no effective pushback from any civic or moral authority.
I am also appalled at Discovery Channel or TLC or WHOEVER it was that kept them on air even when they were given warnings about their family dynamics. It was a cash cow for everyone involved. They'd probably still be on the air if Jimbob and Michelle were successful in faking out their audience. I only saw maybe one or two episodes. Or parts of one or two. It was too bizarre, and looked to be so unhealthy. Anyway, that community up there in NW Arkansas REVERES the Duggars and sees them as role models to look up to. It is no surprise that the judge let Josh out of jail. And don't be surprised if a jury of his peers lets him off. I will put that possibility out there right away. That community believes in some strange cult of Christianity. Never question a man, unless he's gay, and then you can scream homophobic things his way. It is so effed up.

Edited again to stay on topic
 
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BaileyCatts

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..... It is no surprise that the judge let Josh out of jail. And don't be surprised if a jury of his peers lets him off. I will put that possibility out there right away. ......

I was afraid to say it first, but I agree with you. Even after reading all the horrible things they found, I won't be shocked if its a trial with a jury he will be found not guilty. Or if found guilty, punishment will be fines and probation with no prison time. I can already hear the biggest excuse ... it was a computer at his office, well ANYone could have done that cause look at all the people who had access to it. :rolleyes: It won't shock me at all.
 

overedge

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It’s just internet monitoring software where a report is sent to another person of your internet activity so they can call you out on accessing certain sites.

And in this case the reports were going to Anna, who is already overwhelmed with homeschooling their kids and taking care of the household. Plus she follows a religion that says the husband is the head of the household and it's the wife's job to support him and not question his decisions. IOW there was exactly zero chance that she would do anything if the software showed that Josh was visiting questionable Internet sites :mad:

Rachael Denhollander makes some very good points in the Twitter thread I linked above, that the men doing these sorts of things have almost no consequences for their actions, while their families and the rest of their communities have to upend their lives to accommodate the outcomes.
 
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quartz

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If I couldn’t trust my husband because he’s molested his sisters, screwed prostitutes, and needs a special monitoring program to be installed on his computer so that I could keep an eye on what he’s up to because he is that fcuking disgusting, then I would also really need to question myself as to why I would get into bed with him and make more babies.
He needs to be locked up for years and she needs to be accountable for enabling him.
 

becca

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If I couldn’t trust my husband because he’s molested his sisters, screwed prostitutes, and needs a special monitoring program to be installed on his computer so that I could keep an eye on what he’s up to because he is that fcuking disgusting, then I would also really need to question myself as to why I would get into bed with him and make more babies.
He needs to be locked up for years and she needs to be accountable for enabling him.
The only thing I will say in fairness is it’s possible the program was for adult porn and not child porn.

But yes she should divorce him if she cannot trust him with her kids seriously.
 

Jimena

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The only thing I will say in fairness is it’s possible the program was for adult porn and not child porn.
The computer hard drive was partitioned in two. The software was in one part of the hard drive. The illegal material was closed off from Covenant Eyes in the 8ther part of the hard drive. IOW, CE could not see/report the child porn.

These people should all go to jail. What a horrendous cult.
 

quartz

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The only thing I will say in fairness is it’s possible the program was for adult porn and not child porn.

But yes she should divorce him if she cannot trust him with her kids seriously.
He already molested several of his own sisters when they were children and she knows that. Do you really think she was only monitoring for adult porn and child porn wasn’t a concern for her at all?
 

once_upon

Better off than 2020
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The only thing I will say in fairness is it’s possible the program was for adult porn and not child porn.


What? Did you read any of the court charges? Watching sexual assault of 18 mo - 3 year olds is not, never has been, never will be adult porn.

I had a patient years ago, who at 18 months was so violently raped by her mother's boyfriend that so many of her body's organs were never going to be normal again.

The monsters that do or watch this sexual assault are not watching adult porn.
 

puglover

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I am part way through watching the documentary "Surviving R. Kelly". I confess to not being a fan of his and certainly not watching his videos or following his career, although I love the song "I Believe I Can Fly". If accurate, the details revealed in the documentary indicate a lot of enabling by those close to him, astonishing music industry complicity and that his ego was so large he was basically hiding in plain sight, displaying warning signs right and left, yet believing he had impunity. If I understand it correctly, he engaged in sexual activity with minors as far back as the early "90s yet his popularity did not decrease and he really served no jail time until he was incarcerated in 2019. One could easily ask how those who turned a blind eye to his proclivities live with themselves or ever did. The "Annas" of this world play only a tiny part. We all need to "read the signs" within the sphere of our own influence. Protect the children!
 

Anemone

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I really feel sorry for Josh Duggar's children in all of this. Even though one hopes they have not been victims of any physical abuse, one day they will all be old enough to access social media and learn about all of this. They should certainly be protected from hearing about all of this at this point in time, but one day they will all be adults and be able to find this stuff for themselves. That is going to cause a lot of mental and emotional anguish I am sure.
 

overedge

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The only thing I will say in fairness is it’s possible the program was for adult porn and not child porn.

According to the Covenant Eyes website, its software takes screenshots of what the user is looking at, and uses AI to analyze the images for "explicit imagery". I'm pretty sure that the images that were described in court would have been flagged as "explicit".
 

overedge

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There are many reasons to be :confused: about the judge's decision to grant bail to Josh, but I didn't know until today that in the family that is responsible for him, the wife teaches piano. To children. So the judge released him to live in a house that has even more kids in it than most households would. :mad:

Apparently one of the bail conditions is that she has to find somewhere outside the house to give the piano lessons, which must be a major pain for her and for her students and their families. But because her husband decided that they would offer to have Josh live with them if they got bail, she must obey her husband. Who incidentally works outside the home all day long, so guess who is going to have to do most of the Josh monitoring?
 

Vagabond

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Apparently one of the bail conditions is that she has to find somewhere outside the house to give the piano lessons, which must be a major pain for her and for her students and their families. But because her husband decided that they would offer to have Josh live with them if they got bail, she must obey her husband. Who incidentally works outside the home all day long, so guess who is going to have to do most of the Josh monitoring?
Where do you get your information, and can you please provide a link?

Everything I have seen is of a piece with this:


Duggar will be confined to the home of family friends who have agreed to serve as his custodians....

Under the terms of his release, Duggar can have contact with his children but only with his wife present. He cannot be around any other minors, including other relatives.
 

Vagabond

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There's a link above to Rachael Denhollander's twitter thread. It's in there.
Thanks, but no thanks. @overedge posted a trigger warning, and I do not care to retraumatize myself. Unless someone can come up with something better than a vague reference to someone's Twitter stream, I'll believe USA Today rather than someone posting on Twitter. (Just as I'd more easily believe Christine Brennan rather than Dave Lease. :p )
 

Orm Irian

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He already molested several of his own sisters when they were children and she knows that. Do you really think she was only monitoring for adult porn and child porn wasn’t a concern for her at all?
Unfortunately the religious system this family lives within doesn't differentiate the two. To them, any sexual sin is a sexual sin and they're all equally bad - but the remedy for them isn't therapy, jail or community service, it's prayer, repenting before god and accepting god's forgiveness (which, of course, no other person can check to make sure has actually been granted), and confessing to and being forgiven by the community (said forgiveness is not optional). And that gets even more troubling when you realise that 'sexual sin' in their community covers everything from looking at someone else's cleavage for a few seconds too long or teenage self-exploration in the shower to rape, child abuse and spousal abuse.

Worse yet, the system they follow teaches that victims or sexual abuse or assault are, somehow, any way you can screw reality up in a batshit little knot to make it so, at fault for being abused or assaulted - and even if there's no way anyone can make it out to be their fault, taught that god allowed it to happen to make them spiritually stronger. There are images of the specific teaching material posted in various places online; if I can track one of them down I'll come back and post a link.

It wasn't only Josh Duggar who had to confess his sins before his community after he abused his sisters as a teenager. His sisters had to as well.

By the way, I thought people might find this post interesting - it's by an attorney with education in criminal law talking about why the judge pretty much had no option other than to release Duggar on bail at this point.

ETA:

There are many reasons to be :confused: about the judge's decision to grant bail to Josh, but I didn't know until today that in the family that is responsible for him, the wife teaches piano. To children. So the judge released him to live in a house that has even more kids in it than most households would. :mad:
IIRC it was the family's adult daughter who teaches piano, not the wife (who sounded all kinds of unwilling to have this man in her home), and they agreed that she would find somewhere else to teach for the duration of Duggar's stay.
 

becca

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He already molested several of his own sisters when they were children and she knows that. Do you really think she was only monitoring for adult porn and child porn wasn’t a concern for her at all?
I don’t disagree with you although they were all children when it happened i just meant the program in general who knows how naive she has been.

please don’t get me wrong I think she should divorce him
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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According to the information that Rachael Denhollander posted on Twitter, it's the wife that teaches piano, and when she was asked in court whether she wanted Josh to stay with them, she said that she supported her husband's offer to take him in. I.e. she didn't actually say what she thought.

And regardless of whether it's the wife or the daughter who teaches piano, it still means more kids coming to the house for lessons.
 

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