ISU to propose expansion of Worlds fields; 2020 Worlds unlikely to be rescheduled

[Brenda_Bottems]

Social media is a rather destitute cesspool of lewd content. It's preposterous for figure skating to actively produce content for those platforms. Stick to television and reputable print publications,please.

-BB

 

[starrynight]

I know that there has been suggestions of perhaps needing to have competitions without audiences.

But is skating able to run profitably by doing this? In some sports, the television deals are worth so much money that it's profitable to have it audience free. But does skating need to sell physical seats to break even?

 

[Vagabond]

I'm trying to imagine social distancing in the Kiss and Cry. Anna Tsareva could do it with her students (other than her daughter, of course). I cannot think of anyone else, though.

 

[tony]

I know that there has been suggestions of perhaps needing to have competitions without audiences.

But is skating able to run profitably by doing this? In some sports, the television deals are worth so much money that it's profitable to have it audience free. But does skating need to sell physical seats to break even?

The ISU is going to be making absolute minimal money if rinks in some countries stay closed for extended times-- people won't be paying membership fees to their Federations or however it works within their countries, and then the Federations won't have money to send the athletes to a crowd-less rink. The athletes aren't likely to be making money outside of skating, and they won't be coaching as a supplemental income. Sponsors also are probably losing a ton of money from either stores being closed or people saving money/not having any money to spend right now, so it's not like they could offer a tremendous amount or even want to continue to be sponsors until the world is how it was before this.

I mentioned this in another thread- some European countries are already pushing for/planning no travel until the end of 2020. If Switzerland and Switzerland alone becomes one of those countries (ISU home), I cannot see any events happening at all the rest of this year, and then I don't see how anything could happen in the few short months of 2021 when things may potentially be starting to open/get back to normal.

In other words: I think we will know very soon if there is any likelihood of a 2021 season, but I don't think we should be surprised if it's wiped out as well.

 

[mjb52]

I know that there has been suggestions of perhaps needing to have competitions without audiences.

But is skating able to run profitably by doing this? In some sports, the television deals are worth so much money that it's profitable to have it audience free. But does skating need to sell physical seats to break even?

Another thing to think about is that what was true in the past may not hold true for the future, depending on how much things remain semi-shutdown - the entire model for how sports work may have to change so we may not be able to judge by how things worked before. It's sad to think about but important to prepare for the possibility.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm trying to imagine social distancing in the Kiss and Cry. Anna Tsareva could do it with her students (other than her daughter, of course). I cannot think of anyone else, though.

IMO there can't be social distancing in athletics, not the kind of social distancing we are doing right now. That is why people like Fauci have said if team sports are to open back up, teams would have to quarantine together.

Skating isn't a team sport but I don't see how pair and ice dance teams could train together if they don't live together and it would be hard to get proper coaching for all skaters if the coaches couldn't get close than 6 ft to their students. Sometimes the coach has to physically touch you. Ice dance coaches actually dance with their students. It's a high touch environment.

And even in other sports with less touching, there is a lot of sweating and coughing and whatnot that means coaching and training will be hard.

 

[starrynight]

In other words: I think we will know very soon if there is any likelihood of a 2021 season, but I don't think we should be surprised if it's wiped out as well.

Skating as an international sport is a tricky one.

It's not like a domestic football competition where realistically teams could be quarantined.

If skaters had to go through 14 day quarantines when they entered and returned from countries (which I think is going to be a certain factor for quite a while), I think it's basically impossible to have competitions other than say, a Worlds where all the skaters left for it weeks and weeks in advance - sat in quarantine for 14 days and then spent a couple of weeks training for it.

I feel for the people who follow summer sports. The uncertainty around the 2021 Olympics must be crazy.

 

[Vagabond]

It's not like a domestic football competition where realistically teams could be quarantined.

It is unrealistic is it to expect that thirty or so men in their twenties and thirties (not counting coaches, trainers, etc.) could be quarantined together for months on end without their wives, girlfriends, or some alternative thereto.

 

[starrynight]

It is unrealistic is it to expect that thirty or so men in their twenties and thirties (not counting coaches, trainers, etc.) could be quarantined together for months on end without their wives, girlfriends, or some alternative thereto.

Believe me, there’s fully established plans in my country for this, with football to restart at the end of May. I agree it’s insane. Who actually knows if it will occur in the end. But money is talking in some sports right now.

 

[Vagabond]

But money is talking in some sports right now.

It's talking nonsense.

 

[starrynight]

It's talking nonsense.

I suppose with figure skating there’s not enough money for it to say much at all. It’s not like there’s a TV deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars acting as an incentive.

The Olympics is what matters and for the most part all the competitions in between are for die hard fans.

Which makes me think that there won’t be much point in risking financial uncertainty with holding events when there is risk that spikes in infections, sudden changes in restrictions might sink an event. And none of this risk is insurable.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

The Olympics is what matters and for the most part all the competitions in between are for die hard fans.

Um. And athletes.

 

[MacMadame]

It is unrealistic is it to expect that thirty or so men in their twenties and thirties (not counting coaches, trainers, etc.) could be quarantined together for months on end without their wives, girlfriends, or some alternative thereto.

When it was first proposed, at least one athlete said: No.

But if it comes to that, they may be "in" for enough money.

 

[starrynight]

What was the competition schedule back in the truly amateur days of skating? Before the Grand Prix? I’m showing my age here, but I looked at the results records of world champs from the 1970s and it seemed like they just did Nationals, Euros and Worlds - or at least that’s all wiki is showing.

 

[MacMadame]

What was the competition schedule back in the truly amateur days of skating? Before the Grand Prix? I’m showing my age here, but I looked at the results records of world champs from the 1970s and it seemed like they just did Nationals, Euros and Worlds - or at least that’s all wiki is showing.

In the 80s at least (and maybe earlier but 80s is when I paid attention to this) there were Fall internationals many of which are now Grand Prix events. They weren't organized into a Grand Prix series and I don't think there was much (if any) prize money. But they were still considered prestigious and only the top skaters from a country were invited.

If you remember, it was Tonya Harding doing worse than she expected at NHK Trophy that set off the whole Nancy Kerrigan Knee Bash in the early 90s. She also was at Skate America one year. I think it was her first A level international and she was the host pick but I could be misremembering. She came in 12th according to that documentary that her friend made.

There was a North American Championship at one point. Wiki says from 1921 to 1971

 

[tony]

In the 80s at least (and maybe earlier but 80s is when I paid attention to this) there were Fall internationals many of which are now Grand Prix events. They weren't organized into a Grand Prix series and I don't think there was much (if any) prize money. But they were still considered prestigious and only the top skaters from a country were invited.

If you remember, it was Tonya Harding doing worse than she expected at NHK Trophy that set off the whole Nancy Kerrigan Knee Bash in the early 90s. She also was at Skate America one year. I think it was her first A level international and she was the host pick but I could be misremembering. She came in 12th according to that documentary that her friend made.

There was a North American Championship at one point. Wiki says from 1921 to 1971

Prize money wasn't a thing in amateur skating until the beginning of the Grand Prix in '95/'96 I believe, and that was the point- to get top amateurs to stay in with as many opportunities to make $$$ as they could.

I wouldn't say many of the events had prestigious skaters. I've been doing a lot of '80's skating binge-watching lately and the fields at Skate America and Skate Canada always seemed to have a handful of lower-level seniors and some skaters lower-ranked within their countries who didn't get to the big events. The fields were sometimes much bigger, 15 or so competitors in singles at times. But yes, the top names were really only competing in one (or maybe two) of these events, their Nationals, Europeans if they could, and then Worlds.

There were no host picks prior to Grand Prix events. There may have been a cap on entries per country, but I'm not even sure of that. Harding was at '86 Skate America when she really started to turn heads-- she finished 2nd. But she had already been in the top 5 or 6 at the previous Nationals so it wasn't a stretch to get her out on international ice.

 

[Vagabond]

What was the competition schedule back in the truly amateur days of skating? Before the Grand Prix? I’m showing my age here, but I looked at the results records of world champs from the 1970s and it seemed like they just did Nationals, Euros and Worlds - or at least that’s all wiki is showing.

That's how it was for a long time except that there was also an event catering to skaters from the United States and Canada, the North American Championships, which took place in odd-numbered years. IINM, the Nebelhorn Trophy is the oldest of the lower-level internationals, and it dates to 1969.

If this seems odd, consider that prior to the introduction of the Boeing 747, transoceanic jet traffic was a slower and more cumbersome proccess, as evidenced by the fact that the entire U.S. team went on the same Sabena flight in 1961.

 

[gkelly]

What was the competition schedule back in the truly amateur days of skating? Before the Grand Prix? I’m showing my age here, but I looked at the results records of world champs from the 1970s and it seemed like they just did Nationals, Euros and Worlds - or at least that’s all wiki is showing.

There were some competitions outside of the championships, that didn't count for anything other than themselves, and a way for skaters to get international experience.

Blue Swords began in 1961 as a senior event but later became junior, held only every few years in the JGP era.

Prize of Moscow News ran from 1966 to 1990

Nebelhorn Trophy and Grand Prix International St. Gervais (a two-competition series called Coupe des Alpes) began in 1969. (St. Gervais was last held as a senior competition in 1996 but was part of the first JGP series.)

Skate Canada International began in 1973

Karl Schäfer Memorial began in 1974

NHK Trophy began in 1979

Skate America began in 1979 (but was not held in 1980, 84, 87)

That's all I know of offhand that were held in the 1970s. Others began in the 1980s.

 

[ostile17]

Skating as an international sport is a tricky one.

It's not like a domestic football competition where realistically teams could be quarantined.

If skaters had to go through 14 day quarantines when they entered and returned from countries (which I think is going to be a certain factor for quite a while), I think it's basically impossible to have competitions other than say, a Worlds where all the skaters left for it weeks and weeks in advance - sat in quarantine for 14 days and then spent a couple of weeks training for it.

I feel for the people who follow summer sports. The uncertainty around the 2021 Olympics must be crazy.

And I wouldn't bet on having 2022 Olympics in 2022 either!

 

[Karen-W]

And I wouldn't bet on having 2022 Olympics in 2022 either!

Not in Beijing at least. But SLC is always ready on short notice.