ISU has cancelled 2021 Europeans, ISU Grand Prix Final, World Junior Synchro; Stockholm Worlds still on for now

[ballettmaus]

Without proper quarantine, I think of it as a piece of the safety puzzle. Combine it would mask wearing, distancing, separate rooms, and the elimination of shared meals/time at the bar/mixing for recreation or socialization, then you should be able to seriously cut down the risk of spread even if an athlete that is unknowingly infectious is cleared to enter the bubble.

Given the number of athletes and coaches, is that feasable though? Do we know if skaters have to wear masks on the ice during training? Can pair skaters and ice dancers even wear masks or is it too big a risk?

Yeah. I can't believe we are still at the stage where people think it's enough to test someone on arrival.
And it isn't just about being on the actual plane. It's the getting there, the wait in the airport and the getting to your hotel.

I'm mostly concerned about connecting flights. When you go to the airport, you can time it so that you don't have to wait too long but there are probably a number of atheletes who will have to connect. Couple that with fewer flights and they might have to wait for their connecting flight for hours.

 

[misskarne]

I think the other complicating factor that has not really been present in a lot of the other events that have been held thus far is that at Worlds, some of the athletes will be minors. That's inescapable. So how do they deal with that? It may mean chaperones are needed to be added to the bubble.

 

[Karen-W]

I think the other complicating factor that has not really been present in a lot of the other events that have been held thus far is that at Worlds, some of the athletes will be minors. That's inescapable. So how do they deal with that? It may mean chaperones are needed to be added to the bubble.

How does that change the bubble concept that the USFS utilized? There were plenty of minors competing at that event. Those athletes need chaperones regardless of a bubble.

 

[Dobre]

But people flew to Las Vegas too. Not everyone drove. The same will be true in Sweden.

Hence I said "a much higher percentage."

My sister's professional answer would be, "Well, I hope your luck holds out."

One's "luck" is much more likely to hold out when one looks at the real challenges. And more people traveling from even farther away is a risk factor the ISU has to look at. I assume that USFS did exactly that when they compared the risk of holding Nationals vs. Skate America and determined to completely separate the senior & junior athletes.

 

[Orm Irian]

How does that change the bubble concept that the USFS utilized? There were plenty of minors competing at that event. Those athletes need chaperones regardless of a bubble.

Among other things, it increases the number of people in the bubble, which increases the chance of infection slipping into the group, and it increases the number of people that the organisers have to cover the costs of tests, accommodation, food etc for - and that would be for approximately a month if they were planning to do proper quarantine and then training time to recover from quarantine, a la the Australian Open, along with their laughably cute little bubble concept. Even an extra few days would send their projected costs skyrocketing.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I thought part of the bubble was regular testing, not just once on arrival and then never again.

 

[Dobre]

Btw, I just had a thought... what if they moved Worlds to Las Vegas? The setup is really ideal for a cheap bubble experience and they have already had two competitions safely.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/biden-travel-ban/2021/01/25/f10084b4-5f1f-11eb-afbe-9a11a127d146_story.html

Is travel banned for people from the listed countries? Or is it banned unless you can show a negative test result? These two paragraphs, in particular, are confusing to me; but regardless, it doesn't seem like Las Vegas is a better bet than elsewhere to be available for international competition without a possible two-week quarantine.

"In addition to requiring proof of a negative test, Biden also has directed officials to explore the feasibility of requiring international travelers to quarantine or self-isolate once they arrive in the United States.

The reinstatement of the ban is a blow to airlines that had hoped testing could replace bans and quarantines. Industry surveys have shown that people are more reluctant to travel if they must quarantine."

 

[anonymoose_au]

Well to make the bubble 100% safe I'd imagine everyone woukd need to arrive 2 weeks early so they can all be quarantined for the full 14 days to ensure no-one has an infection.

But then as we can see with the Australian Open if you want everyone to be able to compete everyone had to arrive more than 2 weeks early so if you test positive there's enough time for the infection to clear and you can test negative.

I guess provided they were asymptomatic a positive person could train, but they'd have to have their own rink and with the various strains now multiple rinks so that the ones with the SA strain didn't mix with the ones with the UK strain...

It's pretty much impossible to do...

I don't get why the ISU didn't see the writing on the wall and work towards a virtual event...with specific rules about how cameras were set up (distance, angle etc) and timing (like everyone has to compete at the same time of day in their timezone) to make it as fair as possible. They could even dictate the composition of the ice if they wanted to (I know the ideal hockey ice is different from the ideal figure skating ice) and the rink size.

Now the Worlds is scheduled at the end of March, there's still enough time if the ISU don't decide to sit on their hands at Thursday's meeting. But I don't have faith they'll be proactive

 

[Colonel Green]

Realistically, the USFS (seemingly) got lucky with their pseudo-bubble at US Nationals -- Tom Z. had COVID and didn't come and Paige Rydberg tested positive on arrival; unless none of Tom Z.'s other skaters had had any contact with them for the past two weeks, which strikes me as unlikely, they shouldn't have been allowed to compete under safe practices.

Like, if we do have a Worlds and one of the IAM skaters tests positive on arrival, the entire IAM delegation should have to withdraw. It's not safe otherwise.

 

[BittyBug]

How would the quarantine period work? If it followed the practice they use in Israel and Australia, the athletes would not be allowed to leave their rooms.

14 days without skating right before the biggest competition of the season?

 

[overedge]

How would the quarantine period work? If it followed the practice they use in Israel and Australia, the athletes would not be allowed to leave their rooms.

14 days without skating right before the biggest competition of the season?

And also when many of the skaters wouldn't have had as much practice time as they usually have, because of rink closures and general lockdowns.

 

[Colonel Green]

How would the quarantine period work? If it followed the practice they use in Israel and Australia, the athletes would not be allowed to leave their rooms.

14 days without skating right before the biggest competition of the season?

Yes, a real bubble is not practicable unless the athletes were going to arrive a month in advance.

But Sweden doesn’t (at least as yet) require that, and it’s not what the organizers has planned.

 

[anonymoose_au]

How would the quarantine period work? If it followed the practice they use in Israel and Australia, the athletes would not be allowed to leave their rooms

Not sure about Israel but for the Aus Open the players that don't test positive are allowed 2 (or is it 5?) hours of practice a day with one other player.

Having said that tennis does have the benefit of being an outside sport played in warm weather, which provides further safety from the Rona.

But Sweden doesn’t (at least as yet) require that, and it’s not what the organizers has planned.

True, although that doesn't really say anything about the safety of it. In the UK (at least until a few weeks ago) the law was hotel quarantine for returning travellers, but if you tested negative after 5 days you could leave - despite the notable scientific fact that the incubation period can be up to 14 days. The US doesn't even have a quarantine period up to now and Europeans were still moving around Europe quite freely until recently.

Of course I'm coming at it from an Aussie perspective, because our numbers are so low (knock on wood community transmission has been 0 across the country for days now) it seems nuts to undertake any activity that could cause a huge wave of cases.

The ISU will be looking at it from a European perspective I guess.

 

[Colonel Green]

True, although that doesn't really say anything about the safety of it.

Indeed.

Which is one of the reasons why it's unfortunate that Worlds this year was scheduled to be held in Sweden.

 

[DreamSkates]

Some countries including the US are banning travel from a number of European countries which would include where Worlds is scheduled. With the new version of c**** I don't think it is wise to ask these athletes to travel and risk their own health or possibly bringing anything back with them even with a quarantine both before and after the event.

 

[Japanfan]

In the US, I can see the “Live Free or Die” flags coming out if authorities try to keep their own citizens jailed in hotels, with armed guards. Search lights & barking dogs too? I understand why this would be done (for public health) but it could backfire.

In Canada, there's been talk about requiring people who leave the country to quarantine at their own expense for two weeks.

 

[skatingguy]

In Canada, there's been talk about requiring people who live the country to quarantine at their own expense for two weeks.

leave*

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Philip Hersh tells us (via Twitter) what he knows (1&2) and what he thinks:

Philip Hersh
@olyphil
·
4h

1 / Swedish organizers’ plans to try to have the World Figure Skating Championships in a Stockholm bubble (March 22-28) include letters to those who had signed on as volunteers asking if they would be willing to live in the bubble for 7 to 10 days.

2 / ISU Council has virtual meeting scheduled for Thursday but any decision on Stockholm worlds may not be made public immediately.


Among reasons why putting on World Figure Skating in a bubble is much more complex than it was to do US Champs in a bubble: US Champs had 74 athletes from one country (two if you include the handful training in CAN); the 2019 worlds had 167 athletes from 42 countries.

Whether the world championships go ahead (or not), circumstances in Sweden and for competitors from around the world planning to attend may change dramatically in even the week leading up to the event.

Such tense times.

 

[Carolla5501]

Well just load everyone up and send them to Orlando. The ISU can use the NBA bubble model seemed to work really well (NOTE: I am kidding, but the NBA bubble was considerably larger and longer than you would need for worlds and it did work...)

 

[mackiecat]

What I hated about airports is how when you have a flight that has a layover and you have to go through security again (and worse, immigration if it's an international flight). I wonder how they deal with situations like someone flying from London, England to Vancouver, Canada with a layover in Toronto? Do they quarantine in Toronto first? How would BC officials track this person when they are flying "domestically" from Toronto to Vancouver?

Have airports restructured it where passengers don't have to go through security again during a layover? That would be a huge plus when travel resumes.

What happens is that they are tracked at their destination and required to quarantine there. I know someone who just did it. They also had to register their quarantine plan prior to departure. They had to Even show where they were getting groceries from. This was a US residence returning to Canada on a student visa. They also had to have another negative test after the 14 days ( this might have been the schools requirement though). The had a layover in Montreal and landed in Toronto. Said it was day and night comparing the airport they left from verses the excellent controls at the two Canadian airports. ( and the people were nicer too )

 

[kwanfan1818]

What happens is that they are tracked at their destination and required to quarantine there. I know someone who just did it. They also had to register their quarantine plan prior to departure. They had to Even show where they were getting groceries from.

The problem was having the limited resources to follow up on those plans -- many people lived hours from the airports in which they landed -- and it was the honor system, primarily. Hence the need to change to specific, regulated hotels for quarantine, the tradeoff being potential exposure to get home from there, with the offset not being able to spread it on the way home.

 

[emilieh]

Realistically, the USFS (seemingly) got lucky with their pseudo-bubble at US Nationals -- Tom Z. had ********* and didn't come and Paige Rydberg tested positive on arrival; unless none of Tom Z.'s other skaters had had any contact with them for the past two weeks, which strikes me as unlikely, they shouldn't have been allowed to compete under safe practices.

Like, if we do have a Worlds and one of the IAM skaters tests positive on arrival, the entire IAM delegation should have to withdraw. It's not safe otherwise.

I don't know any details other than what was posted publicly, but it does seem that Rydberg's test was a false positive. She said she tested negative twice after getting the positive result. With hindsight, it would have been unfortunate if the other skaters were withdrawn over a false positive. At the time, I was wondering what USFS was doing, if they had tested the other skaters again, etc.

 

[mjb52]

This is one thing I think is important for Worlds, developing a protocol to make sure no one is held out of competition because of a false positive. They could look at what other sports have done.

 

[Erin]

Have airports restructured it where passengers don't have to go through security again during a layover? That would be a huge plus when travel resumes.

I realize the topic has already moved on, but one airport that has done this for incoming international flights to Canada is Calgary. When I flew to Kelowna last year from the US via Calgary, I can’t remember the exact procedure, but after clearing Canada customs and immigration, I think I just had to give my boarding pass to a security person to get entry to the domestic flight area. I definitely did not have to re-clear security. This is of no use to me now, since if I’m flying into Calgary now, I’m staying here, but it’s one of many examples of why Calgary is easily my favourite airport in Canada and possibly the world. I’ve seen over and over that they have taken steps to modernize and innovate.

Anyway, back to talking about Worlds. Japan isn’t sending skaters to World Short Track Championships in the Netherlands in early March due to concerns of athlete safety. I won’t be surprised to see a similar decision for figure skating a few weeks later. Discuss.

 

[skategal]

Anyway, back to talking about Worlds. Japan isn’t sending skaters to World Short Track Championships in the Netherlands in early March due to concerns of athlete safety. I won’t be surprised to see a similar decision for figure skating a few weeks later. Discuss.

I was wondering what Japan might do.

Thanks for sharing this information.

 

[Dobre]

Discuss.

Deal breaker. I think if there's no Japan, there's no way they don't at least create an alternative qualification system.

So many Japanese fans. So many people who would throw angry Pooh bears at the ISU if Hanyu was to lose out to Shoma for only one men's spot.

 

[Colonel Green]

If Japan doesn't go, at a minimum the ISU would be forced to create an alternate means of distributing multiple spots, because there's zero sense for the sport to stage an Olympics with only one Japanese man and one Japanese lady; Japan is the economic center of figure skating.

 

[Karen-W]

Anyway, back to talking about Worlds. Japan isn’t sending skaters to World Short Track Championships in the Netherlands in early March due to concerns of athlete safety. I won’t be surprised to see a similar decision for figure skating a few weeks later. Discuss.

Link? And are we sure that the concern for athlete safety isn't related to the increasingly violent lockdown protests that have been occurring in the Netherlands in the last week or so?

 

[olympic]

I have been wanting the ISU to change its selection process anyway for the following Worlds. Too bad it might take a horrible pandemic to do just that

 

[sk8nlizard]

I realize the topic has already moved on, but one airport that has done this for incoming international flights to Canada is Calgary. When I flew to Kelowna last year from the US via Calgary, I can’t remember the exact procedure, but after clearing Canada customs and immigration, I think I just had to give my boarding pass to a security person to get entry to the domestic flight area and did not have to re-clear security. This is of no use to me now, since if I’m flying into Calgary now, I’m staying here, but it’s one of many examples of why Calgary is easily my favourite airport in Canada and possibly the world. I’ve seen over and over that they have taken steps to modernize and innovate.

Anyway, back to talking about Worlds. Japan isn’t sending skaters to World Short Track Championships in the Netherlands in early March due to concerns of athlete safety. I won’t be surprised to see a similar decision for figure skating a few weeks later. Discuss.

Didn’t I read that the short track wasn’t for Olympic qualifying? If so, I’m not surprised they pulled out. However, if they make an alternative to qualifying and World’s also qualifies some, wouldn’t it still be easier to qualify at worlds especially if countries like Japan, Canada, maybe even China or Korea sit it out?