ISU Congress

[MAXSwagg]

Lorrie Parker's marks in the men's FS were very outrageous. Not only that, but she has a history of this for and against the same skaters...

 

[Tinami Amori]

At Olys, Caron dramatically underscored Papadakis/Cizeron at SD, placing them 3rd. The issue as well was national bias towards Weaver/Poje who were 7/8th and she was sticking them 2/3rd!
And she was the only judge not giving a single 10 to P/C at the free dance... Caron acted shamefully and reckless because she knew she had nothing to worry about, especially from the ISU.

that's a sure way of getting your marks not counted as "lowest" or "highest" of the panel. If she was the only one placing them 3rd, her marks were not counted.

 

[Willin]

I like the Synchro rep and his mild running commentary on how little most of the people in the room care about Synchro. Funnily enough, I find Synchro far more enjoyable to watch than 97.832% of quads.

I'd love to see somebody propose folding Synchro into the World Championships one of these years, actually. If they want to increase audiences, think about all those teams of 16+ skaters each, and their families and/or friends, showing up to Worlds and maybe watching some of the rest of the show too...

I love synchro, but I don't think it should be folded into Worlds for three main reasons.

1. Practicality - It would be hard to get all the skaters, support staff, family, and fans in in almost every way possible: scheduling, housing, practice ice, Kiss and Cry design, etc.
2. Atmosphere - Synchro competitions tend to have a louder, younger, and rowdier crowd than figure skating. If folded into regular Worlds we may not get opening ceremonies that are nearly as funny and memorable. Pricier tickets may prevent many current synchro fans from going while the rowdiness of synchro fans may turn off figure skating fans.
3. The Fans - I've noticed that a lot of synchro fans are only fans of synchro and tend to be current/former synchro skaters. Many of my teammates on youth/college teams could care less about figure skating other than the gossip they hear about figure skaters. On the same note, figure skating fans tend to stick to figure skating and ignore synchro.

I think this congress demonstrates that more than anything - synchro and figure skating are moving apart. While figure skating has a lot of crossover of coaches/judges/staff among the four disciplines, synchro is having less and less crossover between itself and figure skating. So the more synchro itself is developing, the less there is for the figure skating people to care or say about it.

Wait, did they pass the proposal about allowing men to wear tights?!?
https://twitter.com/magicaleggrolls/status/1003609003207753728

This is very important stuff, I need to know!

I have no problem with it as long as there's no over-exaggerated bulges a la men in ballet or David Bowie in Labyrinth.
I think it will pass.

 

[synian]

that's a sure way of getting your marks not counted as "lowest" or "highest" of the panel. If she was the only one placing them 3rd, her marks were not counted.

That is not an excuse for me. You are a juge, You have to juge everyone with the same strictness.

 

[Tinami Amori]

That is not an excuse for me. You are a juge, You have to juge everyone with the same strictness.

true. but judges who bluntly over- or under- score, get their marks eliminated, and only hurt their team/skaters.

 

[Coco]

Why are nations represented on the previous year's World Championships podium even represented in the pool of possible judges for the current year's Championships?

 

[alain06fr]

true. but judges who bluntly over- or under- score, get their marks eliminated, and only hurt their team/skaters.

I see what you mean but if Caron was replaced by a judge awarding scores “in the corridor” then P/C would have been Gold medal (see the various scenarios tested by buzzfeed). And one should never forget Caron didn’t act alone but within a “constellation”. There were so many things ongoing. I guess you guys heard about this group of more than one thousand North Korean people who “spontaneously” came to the FD with big signs in favor of V/M to finally cheer V/M and no one else...

 

[gkelly]

that's a sure way of getting your marks not counted as "lowest" or "highest" of the panel. If she was the only one placing them 3rd, her marks were not counted.

That's most likely, but it's not a sure thing. Depends on what kind of numerical spread the rest of the panel was using.

 

[Bellanca]

"The age limit issue has provoked lively debate and is likely to be further discussed in the next couple years by ISU figure skating technical committees. It could come before the 2020 Congress as a regular agenda item. That would mean if a change is approved then, it would not take effect for the 2022 Winter Olympics."

Good news! and as expected.. so.. all Eteri's girls and boys, 12 years old by June 30, 2018, are Olympics eligible... And once they transfer to seniors it can not be reversed if the rules change later.
https://vk.com/eteritutberidze?z=photo-97272391_456262064/album-97272391_00/rev

At this point, raising the age limit was always going to be a tough sell, but as I've mentioned before where's the debate for putting a cap on the age limit?! No grandmas/grandpas...

 

[Tinami Amori]

At this point, raising the age limit was always going to be a tough sell, but as I've mentioned before where's the debate for putting a cap on the age limit?! No grandmas/grandpas...

if one qualifies for the event, i don't care if he/she is 90... The senior qualification age should be either 13 (bar or bat mitzvah) or 15 or 16 (legal age in many countries, pick one..)

That's most likely, but it's not a sure thing. Depends on what kind of numerical spread the rest of the panel was using.

... but then if "the bias judge" is not the highest or the lowest, or within a corridor of marks, then he/she is not out of line....

 

[Mont]

I agree the proposal should have remained, but 65 other federations also voted to remove it. Yes, Canada suggested removing, but it wouldn’t have happened without the other 65 feds, including Russia.

Yes that is true but there was an opportunity to support something that optically is a huge problem. Instead of taking a leadership position for improving the optics, Canada chose to take a leadership role in putting the sport in disrepute purely to support the self serving interests of a president who clearly has no judgement in this matter. It's not like there aren't other judges in Canada. A judge could take a step back during their time as president as opposed to flagrantly promoting their own self interest. One of the fundamental problems of figure skating is too many officials in positions of great power.

 

[Dobre]

At Olys, Caron dramatically underscored Papadakis/Cizeron at SD, placing them 3rd. The issue as well was national bias towards Weaver/Poje who were 7/8th and she was sticking them 2/3rd!
And she was the only judge not giving a single 10 to P/C at the free dance... Caron acted shamefully and reckless because she knew she had nothing to worry about, especially from the ISU.

The Canadian judge placed Papadakis & Cizeron 2nd in the SD at the Olympics. (Third in TES only, but 2nd overall. The Japanese judge placed them 4th in TES, but again 2nd overall).

The Canadian judge did place Weaver & Poje 3rd in the SD at the Olympics. (Which was 2 to 6 places higher than all the other judges on the panel). And 3rd in the FD at the Olympics. (Which was 3 to 5 places higher than all the other judges on the panel).

Having said that, the Canadian judge at Worlds--a different person--placed Weaver & Poje 2nd and Gilles & Poirier 3rd. The same judge gave the lowest marks on the panel to Hubbell & Donohue, Cappellini & Lanotte, Chock & Bates, and Stepanova & Bukin. (There were no other judges from a major dance powerhouse on the Worlds panel--very unusual. And the Canadian judge only marked the FD). I believe, that none of those scores from the Canadian judge counted except Weaver & Poje's. (UKR gave W&P a higher score). There was a Canadian tech caller during Worlds whose calls undoubtedly did count, but as far as the Canadian judge's marks, not very many in the top 10 counted. I think only P&C's, W&P's, and Z&G's scores. Ironically, the Canadian judge's marks for Hawayek & Baker didn't count because that score was the highest on the panel.

Conclusion: Make of all that what you will.

 

[escaflowne9282]

I guess you guys heard about this group of more than one thousand North Korean people who “spontaneously” came to the FD with big signs in favor of V/M to finally cheer V/M and no one else...

North Korea? Really?
This is too OTT even for me. I can only take comfort in the fact that this conspiracy is kharmic retribution for the way some (certainly not all!) V&M fans behaved after GPF.

Personally, I think it looks very bad that Canada voted it down. Irrespective of anything concerning results, it's an enormous conflict of interest for a judge to also be a federation president.
Truth be told, I doubt that another Canadian judge would have been so different in their scoring regarding the Olympics. I also think the final results were perfectly fair ;however, the situation just looks very seedy and hypocritical.

 

[MsZem]

if one qualifies for the event, i don't care if he/she is 90... The senior qualification age should be either 13 (bar or bat mitzvah) or 15 or 16 (legal age in many countries, pick one..)

I believe that the legal age of majority is more commonly 18. I'm all for it - if you're not an adult, skate as a junior. But l agree that it was a tough sell given the talent base in certain countries.

Can those who wish to rehash the Olympic ice dance judging maybe start as a separate thread for it?

 

[Willin]

@Tinami Amori @Zemgirl The vast majority of countries have it at 18. Only sixteen countries set the age of majority below 18, while 23 countries (+3 US states and Puerto Rico) set it above 18. So I'd say we go with 18.

For skating purposes, the majority of the US, half of Canada, Russia, France, Italy, China, the Ukraine, and Germany to name a few all set age of majority at 18. So one would think that if they were to set the Senior age minimum at the age of majority that minimum would be 18.

 

[nyrak]

LOL forget Golden Skate, it’s almost as infiltrated by the Canadian mafia as the ISU!

At Olys, Caron dramatically underscored Papadakis/Cizeron at SD, placing them 3rd. The issue as well was national bias towards Weaver/Poje who were 7/8th and she was sticking them 2/3rd!
And she was the only judge not giving a single 10 to P/C at the free dance... Caron acted shamefully and reckless because she knew she had nothing to worry about, especially from the ISU.

P&C and V&M are just about interchangeable for gold & silver on any given day when both are at their best. Even before her costume malfunction in PyeongChang, P&C looked tight & tentative in the SD. It only got worse as the program went on. They should've been lower than 2nd (in the SD) IMO....but they recovered nicely & skated beautifully in the free dance.

 

[misskarne]

NO! We're here to discuss congress and the proposals. Dance conspiracy theorists to other threads please.

Did the tights rule get up? Max, oh Max, I knew you left us too early!

 

[SmallFairy]

Men in tights now!!!

 

[MsZem]

True professionals don't need tights to show off their form! Think Robin Szolkowy in Out of Africa or Joubert at 2011 Worlds

 

[antmanb]

True professionals don't need tights to show off their form! Think Robin Szolkowy in Out of Africa or Joubert at 2011 Worlds

I often think of Robin Szolkowy in Out of Africa and Joubert at 2011 Worlds

 

[SmallFairy]

True professionals don't need tights to show off their form! Think Robin Szolkowy in Out of Africa or Joubert at 2011 Worlds

They don't have show their form, we know they are all totally stellar. But don't you want me to be happy?

#arturdmitrievtrueprofessional

 

[SmallFairy]

I also find the "no tights" rule for men discriminating, as woman are allowed to wear tights all they want. When the tights rule for men was instated, woman had to wear skirt/dress, no pants, so (maybe) it made sense then. Not anymore.

 

[MsZem]

I often think of Robin Szolkowy in Out of Africa and Joubert at 2011 Worlds

Doesn't everyone?

Some of the Joubert stuff was NSFW.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Wait, did they pass the proposal about allowing men to wear tights?!?
https://twitter.com/magicaleggrolls/status/1003609003207753728

This is very important stuff, I need to know!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc1am3KyYgA

 

[Erin]

So I’m ashamed to admit that I thought the men in tights rule changed years ago. It’s probably because many men have worn almost-tights that have confused me. And because so many other costume-related rules from the same era like women in skirts have gone away that I just assumed men in tights must be ok now too.

 

[binbinwinwin]

Has ice dance ladies in skirts actually gone away? I thouvht they only allowed pants for for the Hip Hop SDs. I say allow men to wear tights and ice dance ladies to wear pants.

 

[barbarafan]

North Korea? Really?
This is too OTT even for me. I can only take comfort in the fact that this conspiracy is kharmic retribution for the way some (certainly not all!) V&M fans behaved after GPF.

Personally, I think it looks very bad that Canada voted it down. Irrespective of anything concerning results, it's an enormous conflict of interest for a judge to also be a federation president.
Truth be told, I doubt that another Canadian judge would have been so different in their scoring regarding the Olympics. I also think the final results were perfectly fair ;however, the situation just looks very seedy and hypocritical.

Then again is she did not speak up it could be taken as she was guilty of bias judging whereas it might be that that is exactly how she saw the skate which is what a judge is supposed to do. For instance Sharron Rogers who always marks VM down and even in skating skills where they excel she marks them 8. something or lower. She is still judging with the argument she does not think V/M have good skating skills so it is ok. Having most of the judges score the same in the past has often meant bloc judging which we are trying to get rid of.

 

[Erin]

Has ice dance ladies in skirts actually gone away? I thouvht they only allowed pants for for the Hip Hop SDs. I say allow men to wear tights and ice dance ladies to wear pants.

You might be right that in ice dance skirts are still required. Which is absurd if pants are allowed in the other disciplines.

 

[Debbie S]

You might be right that in ice dance skirts are still required. Which is absurd if pants are allowed in the other disciplines.

Yes, ladies are still required to wear skirts in ice dance, for both testing and competition. Pants were allowed for the hip-hop SD but that only applied to that program/season.

And yes, it's an outdated rule that should be changed.

 

[MsZem]

Pants have also been allowed in the past for certain ODs - I remember seeing female ice dancers wearing them for the folk ODs.

The skirt rule is pretty stupid. Would it have really been a problem if Tessa Virtue had left off the skirt when V/M did Pink Floyd?