IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

mojo said:
Extended Tatyana Tarasova Remarks

https://www.sport-express.ru/olympi...a-tarasova-hochetsya-ne-plakat-a-vyt-1344761/


Q. How should one react to the IOC’s decision? How lawful is it?


“You know, I probably can’t tell you anything about how lawful it is. (Trans. The word chosen for “lawful” could also mean “right”, but Tarasova is interpreting the question according to the word’s most common use.) We have a lot of lawyers, sport directors and people who have been appointed to such roles in our country. They should answer if the IOC decision is legally appropriate. But in general – it’s just the murder of our national sport! Of course, we will try, we will get over it. We have been through worse.

“In my opinion, the decision is absolutely unfair, based only on the testimony of a person who should be tried in an international court.

“In the 2000s, the Americans had serious questions and investigations about doping. We can’t say that doping that was provided by one person is the politics of a government. That’s not true. I have been through a lot of Olympic Games with my athletes – since 1968. I never heard of such a thing. Never!

“There are just no words, I don’t want to cry, but to wail! It’s one thing when you’ve spent your life at the Olympic Games – my life, my dad’s life. But it’s another thing if you are just starting and every day training til you bust a gut for these Games and they won’t let you go… (trans. literally - ripping your intestines)

“That our athletes will compete under a neutral flag, the IOC flag, it is just the maximum that could be gained in this situation.

“We just folded our hands and didn’t do anything after the Olympics in Rio, just forgot about it all. We didn’t prepare a team of serious people, who can answer the legal questions.

“Now I watch on television as an educated person explains everything in understandable and accessible terms why we are not guilty in certain questions.”



Q. Is it necessary to compete under the IOC flag?

“This is a matter for each coach and athlete, but I think it is necessary. I don’t think the country abandoned athletes. Although really, she did, not taking care of them. If something had been done and people had looked a bit ahead, the results would have been different. Yes, they lied to us – that is for sure! If not 100%, then even worse. It means that there wasn’t a single educated person who could resolve everything to the desired result. Our athletes will compete in white Olympic uniforms….”



Q. Will everyone agree to compete under a neutral flag?

“I can’t say for everyone, but I had the kind of athletes whose lives I couldn’t ruin. They have been preparing for the Olympics their whole lives!


“Yes, I have no answers to the questions. How will our athletes be treated, received and judged… There are no answers yet.

“But all the same, I can thank the IOC for letting the athletes compete. They have only life and perhaps only one Olympics. It’s a pity that we won’t have teams, that we won’t enter the Opening Ceremonies and be the most beautiful ones there. It’s a pity that the flag won’t be hung, but nobody banned singing the anthem. If we will win, then I think our athletes will sing for us.”


Q. Will the banning of Russia eliminate our team as competitors in the athletic battles?

“We are a great athletic power. Of course, the Olympics won’t work without Russians. We know how to compete. We have the victory gene, passed on to us by our parents. If there are some serious people who can untie this nightmarish tangle, we will only be grateful to them. We’ll applaud them from the afterlife.

“I want to wish the athletes to focus on their specific competitions and battles. It may even help many of them. Because when one is offended or feels something is unfair, you can have extra power. I have experienced it myself and in those situations, I always emerged victorious with my athletes. I wish all our athletes good health, strength and will.”



Q. You called this IOC decision the only smart one in this situation. Will athletes be able to build a career if they attend?

“Of course. I think that our country will recover quickly. If we could recover after 45, then what is this? The decision was even noble, I would say.”



Q Was this decision a political game? What responses could Russia take to change the situation?

“I am not the president of the country. I am not the sports minister. I am a coach who has been to a whole lot of Olympics. A very successful coach. I knew how to prepare. If the sports minister knew how to lead the team, then I think we wouldn’t have this problem. I think there has been a mistake somewhere.”



Q. What would you like to say to our athletes?

“Will they go out? Under what letter? Will we wait for them in white costumes? That’s not clear. But I will really love and respect them. Know this: the whole country loves you. Not just a few people involved in sports, but everyone for whom sport matters. Get ready, guys! You are strong. I love you.”


http://www.sovsport.ru/olympic_game...mutko-diskvalificirovali-mne-lichno-ne-zhalko

“I am not personally bothered that Vitali Mutko was disqualified, but that athletes were disqualified and that he as the director could not help them or the country, that he got the country caught up in this nightmare – that he didn’t use his authority, that he was incompetent in these questions… I don’t have any pity for him. I have pity for those who suffered from his incompetence.” (Tarasova)
Click to expand...
She’s right! If putin or Mutko just did all they were orderd to do no questions asked Russia would be lots better off. But putin is committed to closed cities and saying he didn’t sponsor doping.
 
PRlady said:
So just like in 2002, we now have political journalists covering the Olympic issue. Which means their knowledge of our sport is, um, limited, as you'll all recognize when you read this: https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...-doping-scandal-sochi-winter-olympics/547616/

Ioffe was born in Russia and came to the US as a teenager, I think, and her coverage of Putin politically is always interesting. I did tell her (on Twitter reply) that she's mixed up dance and pairs and that the Russian team with the infamous aboriginal dance did indeed medal.
Click to expand...
You are right that no knowledgeable person would refer to a dance team As a pair.
 
overedge said:
That has nothing to do with what you originally said. Is your goal to fill this thread with as many pointless and fact-free posts as you can?
Click to expand...
I was just repeating what I originally said. You disagreed with me that Russians having to have a special IOC panel screen them was anything different than all athletes being tested before they go. It is different because all athletes aren’t screened by a special IOC panel. If you don’t want to read the IOC rules for Russians don’t bother discussing it!
 
caseyedwards said:
I was just repeating what I originally said. You disagreed with me that Russians having to have a special IOC panel screen them was anything different than all athletes being tested before they go.
Click to expand...

That is not what I said. I said that *all* federations and countries have to follow IOC drug screening protocols for their athletes to be eligible for the Olympics in the first place. I said nothing about what Russia might or might not have to do specifically. And I don't think you are in much of a position to be telling others to check their facts.
 
overedge said:
That is not what I said. I said that *all* federations and countries have to follow IOC drug screening protocols for their athletes to be eligible for the Olympics in the first place. I said nothing about what Russia might or might not have to do specifically. And I don't think you are in much of a position to be telling others to check their facts.
Click to expand...
But Russia faces EXTRA steps of an official IOC panel screening every Russian.

This is unique and extraordinary

https://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-su...te-in-pyeongchang-2018-under-the-olympic-flag


To invite individual Russian athletes to the Olympic Winter Games PyeongChang 2018 according to the following guidelines:

  • The invitation list will be determined, at its absolute discretion, by a panel chaired by Valerie Fourneyron, Chair of the ITA. The panel will include members of the Pre-Games Testing Task Force: one appointed by WADA, one by the DFSU and one by the IOC, Dr Richard Budgett.

  • This panel will be guided in its decisions by the following principles:
    1. It can only consider athletes who have qualified according to the qualification standards of their respective sport.

    2. Athletes must be considered clean to the satisfaction of this panel:
      • Athletes must not have been disqualified or declared ineligible for any Anti-Doping Rule Violation.

      • Athletes must have undergone all the pre-Games targeted tests recommended by the Pre-Games Testing Task Force.

      • Athletes must have undergone any other testing requirements specified by the panel to ensure a level playing field.
      The IOC, at its absolute discretion, will ultimately determine the athletes to be invited from the list
 
Last edited:
Too bad Russian athletes are either too frightened or too brainwashed to speak out against Putin like Lindsey Vonn spoke out against Trump. Vonn showed that patriotism and criticism of government leaders are not mutually exclusive.[/QUOTE]

Yes, well with Trump you may receive an asinine insulting tweet and with Putin you may end up in jail or worse. Don't forget the oligarch who mildly criticized him on television and lost his company and was thrown in jail. And journalists who keep pursuing the apartment bombing story are ending up dead. We won't know the full reach of Putin until he is dead and gone because that is the way he wants it. And now we just saw a report about some computer hackers that have forcibly been removed from their homes in Russia after talking to an American reporter about their jobs. Do you think they will see the light of day again? I think it is ridiculous to fear Trump and it is smart to fear Putin.
 
caseyedwards said:
But Russia faces EXTRA steps of an official IOC panel screening every Russian.

This is unique and extraordinary

https://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-su...te-in-pyeongchang-2018-under-the-olympic-flag


To invite individual Russian athletes to the Olympic Winter Games PyeongChang 2018 according to the following guidelines:

  • The invitation list will be determined, at its absolute discretion, by a panel chaired by Valerie Fourneyron, Chair of the ITA. The panel will include members of the Pre-Games Testing Task Force: one appointed by WADA, one by the DFSU and one by the IOC, Dr Richard Budgett.

  • This panel will be guided in its decisions by the following principles:
    1. It can only consider athletes who have qualified according to the qualification standards of their respective sport.

    2. Athletes must be considered clean to the satisfaction of this panel:
      • Athletes must not have been disqualified or declared ineligible for any Anti-Doping Rule Violation.

      • Athletes must have undergone all the pre-Games targeted tests recommended by the Pre-Games Testing Task Force.

      • Athletes must have undergone any other testing requirements specified by the panel to ensure a level playing field.
      The IOC, at its absolute discretion, will ultimately determine the athletes to be invited from the list
Click to expand...

It sounds like the athletes must go through the normal process, have each process documented, then a data analyst will do an SQL inner join of Russian athetes that qualified for the Olympics and athletes that have completed the steps, some official will inspect and approve the list then an automated message will be sent to compliant athletes eligible to compete at the Olympics.
 
Something I'd point out is the cancer of Russia's conduct isn't just about a gold medalist robbing another athlete of a gold medal - it is much larger, winding, and devastating...it's the trickle down impact...it's about robbing athletes of top 3, top 5, top 15, top 30 placements...the showings athletes need to prove to their home federations that they're competitive and worth supporting. When you have an entire program shoving athletes out from a competitive sphere it has a serious impact on their ability to attract confidence from their own federation and everything that comes from that confidence.
 
bardtoob said:
It sounds like the athletes must go through the normal process, have each process documented, then a data analyst will do an SQL inner join of Russian athetes that qualified for the Olympics and athletes that have completed the steps, some official will inspect and approve the list then an automated message will be sent to compliant athletes eligible to compete at the Olympics.
Click to expand...
Very funny!
 
barbarafan said:
Your first sentence is good. your 2nd sentence is crap. Why would you assume that Japan,usa and Canada would not want Russians to compete.
Click to expand...

Because of Russia's very high chances to win the Team Event gold medal. Canada, USA and Japan, in that order, could move up spots.
 
Last edited:
Japan is not in the running for the Team Event gold, with extremely weak Pairs and a middling (by comparison) Dance team, as well as challenges from a Russian Lady and potentially Osmond, and the US could have a fight on its hands to retain bronze.
 
Last edited:
chattila said:
Because of Russia's very high chances to win the Team Event gold medal. Canada, USA and Japan, in that order, could move up spots.
Click to expand...

Sorry but a victory due to any kind of misfortune on another team is hollow. The figure skaters did not dope and so should be there. If however the figure skaters had been dopers then it is Karma.
 
Yes, well with Trump you may receive an asinine insulting tweet and with Putin you may end up in jail or worse. Don't forget the oligarch who mildly criticized him on television and lost his company and was thrown in jail. And journalists who keep pursuing the apartment bombing story are ending up dead. We won't know the full reach of Putin until he is dead and gone because that is the way he wants it. And now we just saw a report about some computer hackers that have forcibly been removed from their homes in Russia after talking to an American reporter about their jobs. Do you think they will see the light of day again? I think it is ridiculous to fear Trump and it is smart to fear Putin.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100%. It's still too bad that Putin gets no apparent criticism from within Russia even though he's the principal reason for this whole mess. Thank goodness we still have our constitution and institutions in the US to somewhat keep Trump under control.
 
Last edited:
kwanfan1818 said:
Japan is not in the running for the Team Event gold, with extremely weak Pairs and a middling (by comparison) Dance team, as well as challenges from a Russian Lady and potentially Osmond, and the US could have a fight on its hands to retain bronze.
Click to expand...
ive read this like 10 times and I still don’t get it.
If russia boycotts the Olys, Japan won’t take team bronze because they have no chance at gold, their pairs and dance are weak, Russian and Canadian ladies are strong and besides, USA is lucky if they hang on to bronze.:confused::huh:
 
With or without a RUS boycott, JPN is unlikely to move up from fifth, if they even make Top Five: even if their Ladies skater beats Osmond in the SP, that point is likely to be offset in Pairs by A/W of AUS, the next team in line for the TE. So no reason to :cheer2: even if they cared about the TE.

With or without a RUS boycott, USA could still have a hard time holding onto bronze: the relative placements in Ladies stays the same, because the RUS Lady will be ahead of everyone, the relative placement in Pairs stays the same, with the possibly exception of CHN, which could lose a point relative to the USA (and ITA or FRA), in Men, the only likely point gain would be CHN, if Kolyada would have placed higher than Jin, and in Dance, ITA might get closer, with C/L possibly gaining a point if B/S didn't skate. So perhaps superficial reasons to :cheer2:, but not substantial ones.

CAN is the only clear winner in a RUS boycott.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
With or without a RUS boycott, JPN is unlikely to move up from fifth, if they even make Top Five: even if their Ladies skater beats Osmond in the SP, that point is likely to be offset in Pairs by A/W of AUS, the next team in line for the TE. So no reason to :cheer2: even if they cared about the TE.
Click to expand...
Looking at who gets in if the Russian's decide not to compete, the Spanish are in line to get an entry in pairs and that would give them 3 disciplines and they are ranked 9th in the Team standings, so I think Spain would be last entry.
 
skatingguy said:
Looking at who gets in if the Russian's decide not to compete, the Spanish are in line to get an entry in pairs and that would give them 3 disciplines and they are ranked 9th in the Team standings, so I think Spain would be last entry.
Click to expand...
Spain is not eligible, having not qualified in three individual events. I know the Italian podcast guys, who are knowledgeable in most areas, have stuck to this interpretation of the poorly worded announcement, but the implementation for the first TE under the same wording is confirmed for 2018:
https://twitter.com/pandaatlarge/status/939478911192219650

The last spot for South Korea was saved because JGPF doesn't count.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Spain is not eligible, having not qualified in three individual events. I know the Italian podcast guys, who are knowledgeable in most areas, have stuck to this interpretation of the poorly worded announcement, but the implementation for the first TE under the same wording is confirmed for 2018:
https://twitter.com/pandaatlarge/status/939478911192219650

The last spot for South Korea was saved because JGPF doesn't count.
Click to expand...
Okay, but if the Russian pull out, the Spanish get pairs, and then they have 3 so wouldn't that make them eligible. Or are the entries now locked, so teams that receive an entry as a result of another country not using their entries can't be considered for the team event?
 
skatingguy said:
Okay, but if the Russian pull out, the Spanish get pairs, and then they have 3 so wouldn't that make them eligible. Or are the entries now locked, so teams that receive an entry as a result of another country not using their entries can't be considered for the team event?
Click to expand...
Spain doesn't, because Spain hasn't qualified for three individual events. (See the photo attached to the link: Spain has been crossed out, with the note "only qualified in two disciplines") They could only get a Pair if they had qualified for Ladies, Men, and Dance, but they also didn't qualify in Ladies.

Post GPF, the entries are locked, since Senior GPF is the last event at which a member can earn points. (JGPF doesn't count in the points equation.) The line is clearly drawn after #11 South Korea, with Spain crossed off.
 
I'm sorry, I don't think I'm making my point clearly. I understand that the Spanish are not eligible for team event as the entries currently stand. But if the Russian pull out of all of the figure skating events, the Spanish are 3rd on the substitute list for pairs. So if the Russians were to pull out (big if, very unlikely I think) then the pairs entries would go to Japan, Belarus, and Spain. So that would give the Spanish 3 disciplines (men, ice dance, & pairs) and since they are ahead of the Australians in the standings wouldn't they get the team entry vacated by the Russians?
 
I apologize: I misunderstood you. Yes, they would, and they could appoint a Ladies skater. (Matos and Lafuente currently have the Olys minimums.)

There were two possibilities being discussed: 1. Russia pulls out altogether, which is not the message coming from Russia, and 2. Russian skaters can compete in individual events, but not in the TE, which is also unlikely. But if the latter happened, there would be no impact on the Pairs individual event, and Spain would not be in the equation.

Barquero/Maestro have a 5-point advantage in SB from Nebelhorn than the highest-ranked citizenship-qualified Pair from Japan, Suzaki/Kihara from NHK, so it's possible that the Pair from Spain would also put a point between Japan and its TE competition, but 5 points isn't the 60 points that A/W have over S/K.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
There were two possibilities being discussed: 1. Russia pulls out altogether, which is not the message coming from Russia, and 2. Russian skaters can compete in individual events, but not in the TE, which is also unlikely. But if the latter happened, there would be no impact on the Pairs individual event, and Spain would not be in the equation.
Click to expand...
Pairs is, by definition, not an individual event. :slinkaway
 
Talk to the ISU, :lol::

As per Rule 400.A/B, paragraph 5 of the 2016 Special Regulations Single & Pair Skating/Ice Dance, to be entered into and participate in the individual events (Ladies Single Skating, Men Single Skating, Pair Skating, Ice Dance) of the Olympic Winter Games...
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 8 (members: 0, guests: 8)

Similar threads

Sylvia
Russian Skaters Allowed to Compete as Neutrals (AIN) to Qualify for 2026 Winter Olympics
11 12 13
Replies
376
Views
54K
caseyedwards
caseyedwards
Sylvia
CAS rules Valieva can compete - reactions/fallout, plus some details from the hearing
17 18 19
Replies
568
Views
66K
Miezekatze
Miezekatze
Sylvia
2022 Olympic FS Team Event delayed medal ceremony - updates
23 24 25
Replies
731
Views
94K
Sylvia
Sylvia
E
Korean 2024 President's Cup Ranking Competition, Nov 28 - Dec 1
2
Replies
30
Views
690
EdgyIceMarks
E
E
KB Financial Group Korea Figure Skating Championships 2025 (January 2-5)
2
Replies
42
Views
2K
Dobre
D
Back
Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information