IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

Carolla5501 said:
As has been pointed out thousands of times, the reason the standards are different is because their country engaged in a systematic approach to drug and hide the evidence.

This is NOT the fault of the IOC or any other governing body in sports, it's the fault of the leaders in Russia who decided "the rules don't apply to us" and then decided when caught to "bluff"
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This is why the answer is for all the athletes to support putins opponents and become activists to remove putin from power!
 
morqet said:
https://www.olympic.org/news/olympi...information-used-as-part-of-its-deliberations

Here is the list of information used by the IOC to make it's decisions.
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Thank you - it is good to at least have some factual information in this thread rather than ranting and raving. That list of information provides a lot of areas where someone could have passed all of their drug tests, but still be excluded for other reasons. E.g. ADAMS Whereabouts, Athlete Biological Passport, Additional Complementary Intelligence from IFs, Additional Confidential Information provided by WADA, etc. Though I still would think that if there hypothetically were any discrepancies in those areas, they should have shown up sooner and resulted in a ban previously. I guess perhaps there is heightened scrutiny that was not undertaken before is one possibility though.
 
Carolla5501 said:
"fair and transparent" meaning "they tell the fans and we all agree"?

I think that no matter what they do the outcry on here will be "it's not fair" LOL!
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"Fair and transparent", meaning:
1. The athletes are told what they are being suspected of. Does it sound to you like Bukin has the slightest idea why he's going to be kept out of the Games, his good name tarnished and the career to which he's devoted his life possibly destroyed?
2. There is some appeals process in place in which athletes can make their case.
3. The IOC and WADA provide a clear explanation of the basis for their decisions, so that the public can judge whether they are made based on solid evidence. Obviously, the confidentiality of some sources must be protected. But this does not mean the IOC should be operating in a matter befitting certain state security agencies that we can all think of.

I'd like to see the IOC and its member NOCs pay at least as much attention to other abuses in sport as they do to doping. The Larry Nassar case being an extreme example.
 
Carolla5501 said:
"fair and transparent" meaning "they tell the fans and we all agree"?

I think that no matter what they do the outcry on here will be "it's not fair" LOL!
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let me try this again so I can make myself clear:

Did the Russian officials who ran the doping operation completely fck over and screw over the athletes who will be denied participation in the Olympics? Absolutely and they should be the first who receive blame.

Nonetheless, that does not mean IOC does not have a responsibility to have fair and open processes and if there is enough information to make a judgement that people wouldn't be justified in making one that is negative if it is based on that information. IOC still has responsibilities even if it is not the first that should be blamed for what is happening.
 
Ka3sha said:
169 Olympic athletes from Russia will compete in Korea, the list was approved by the IOC
http://www.interfax.ru/sport/597116
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The Russian team was able to fill in the weaker non-skip leaders of the quota by weaker athletes, but refused to do so.

"In a sign of solidarity with athletes who can not participate in the Olympics, the weaker will not occupy their quotas, we made such a decision," Pozdnyakov said.
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No Z&G if B&S get pulled then?
 
... the 28th seems FAR away.

One question though : the IOC wants to have a "clean generation" of Russian athletes. Okay, fair enough. Does that mean that if Bukin cannot compete in Korea, his chances for 2022 are over ? Because it will follow him, and I don't see the IOC allowing him to compete if there was ever a suspicion because as they said : "it will take years to clean Russian sports". I wish they could be as direct with him as possible. If he cannot compete in 4 years, let him know at least. Messy stuff. :(
 
I wonder if a blanket ban would have been better in terms of having a transparent and fair process. It seems this particular process that allows OARs by invite if they pass this heightened scrutiny has only invited charges on unfairness and bias.
 
casken said:
No Z&G if B&S get pulled then?
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No one knows for sure yet, the list hasn’t been published..
Gorshkov says that Z/G abt A/R will replace Stolbova and Bukin, Pozdniakov says that they won’t use an opportunity to replace team leaders with weaker athletes..
But Pozdniakov is speaking about all disciplines. For example, in biathlon only 4 athletes were allowed to go to Korea.. So Biathlon Federation will have to replace too many athletes.
It’s different in figure skating and both Z/G and A/R were listed as official alternates from the very beginning
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I wonder if a blanket ban would have been better in terms of having a transparent and fair process. It seems this particular process that allows OARs by invite if they pass this heightened scrutiny has only invited charges on unfairness and bias.
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I think IOC determined that an outright ban would have too heavy political consequences. But those who thought that meant a slap on the wrist are likely very wrong, and its going to be a very serious situation for the Russian athletes. The IOC's hammer may be coming down this way.
 
casken said:
The Russian team was able to fill in the weaker non-skip leaders of the quota by weaker athletes, but refused to do so.

"In a sign of solidarity with athletes who can not participate in the Olympics, the weaker will not occupy their quotas, we made such a decision," Pozdnyakov said.
Click to expand...

No Z&G if B&S get pulled then?
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What do they mean by "non-skip leaders"? Isn't "skip" a curling term? Is it possible that phrase applies to curling only? Did that terminology come from a translation of the quoted article?
 
Now Bukin can look at that list and know exactly what he did wrong and when. He will know instantly! Then he can go public with what rule he violated.
 
BlueRidge said:
I think IOC determined that an outright ban would have too heavy political consequences. But those who thought that meant a slap on the wrist are likely very wrong, and its going to be a very serious situation for the Russian athletes. The IOC's hammer may be coming down this way.
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The question, of course, is whether it's going to come down on the right people.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I wonder if a blanket ban would have been better in terms of having a transparent and fair process. It seems this particular process that allows OARs by invite if they pass this heightened scrutiny has only invited charges on unfairness and bias.
Click to expand...

I don't think that would have been fair. So many athletes that never doped would be impacted for the rest of their careers.
 
Ka3sha said:
Stepanova/Bukin are going to Japan with entire Russian figure skating team (they have a pre-Olympic camp there) and hope for the best outcome. They still have no idea, why Ivan was not allowed to compete in Korea
https://rsport.ria.ru/figure_skating/20180125/1131614027.html
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What does the end of the article means ? That the reason might be that Bukin wasn't at a precise location for a doping test ? That basically there could have been a misunderstanding or something like that about a location, and that the agent notify it but it was still in the database ?
 
My heart still breaks for Stepanova and Bukin, who seem utterly lost as to why this is happening.

S/K are past their peak, have an olympic medal already. And it seems that why the suspected motive behind her ban may be very harsh, it’s at least rational. It must feel horrible, but the consequences are not quite so life-changing.

S/B put their absolute all into this season and are the most improved team on the circuit. They went and fetched a qualification that wasn’t a given, and earned GP+ euro medals against tough opposition. This is their prime.
 
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