Increasingly likely “Russia” will be banned from Pyeongchang

[kwanfan1818]

Just got the pdf version of the December 2017 issue of "The Curling News," according to which WADA has gotten access to a database that "consists of all testing data at the Moscow Laboratory between January 2012 and August 2015."

"The information includes details of thousands of drug tests, providing new evidence which appears to confirm many of the allegations made by Canadian lawyer Richard McLaren in his WADA-commissioned reports published in July and December 2016."

The .pdf file is protected from copy-and-paste, hence the shortness of the quotes.

 

[Bellanca]

Since I know several reporters at the Times

You too? Hmmm. Well, then, sorry to hear that you (and possibly they) are still — in denial: refusing to admit the truth or reality of something unpleasant.

I hope your friends and acquaintances find a more honorable line of work and see the light, much as mine did. For now, tit for tat.

I suppose Putin could always boycott on behalf of Russia, but the IOC...

Punishing many for the sins of a few would be the argument, and the IOC doesn't have the onions to make such a bold move. Besides, other countries would pull out of the games in solidarity and support for Russia. It is just too much of a gamble.

 

[Skaterbob]

You too? Hmmm. Well, then, sorry to hear that you (and possibly they) are still — in denial: refusing to admit the truth or reality of something unpleasant.

I hope your friends and acquaintances find a more honorable line of work and see the light, much as mine did. For now, tit for tat.

I suppose Putin could always boycott on behalf of Russia, but the IOC...

Punishing dozens for the sins of a few would be the argument, and the IOC doesn't have the onions to make such a bold move. Besides, other countries would pull out of the games in solidarity and support for Russia. It is just too much of a gamble.

Ummm... what countries would pull out to support Russia?

 

[Bellanca]

Ummm... what countries would pull out to support Russia?

Ummm... they would have plenty of support, believe me.

 

[Bulletsdad]

Ummm... they would have plenty of support, believe me.

Well, I guess North Korea, Cuba and Kazakhstan.

 

[Skaterbob]

Ummm... they would have plenty of support, believe me.

Believe you why? I am not saying Russia should be banned but I find it odd to think that other countries would stand besides another country because they were banned because of doping allegations. Has this happened before? How many dropped out of Rio because the track and field team was banned?

Cuba doesn't even have a team, North Korea has one pair that we dont even know will go regardless of Russia. Kazakhstan would be a large loss (18 competitor spots) but why would they withdrawal?

 

[Bulletsdad]

Believe you why? I am not saying Russia should be banned but I find it odd to think that other countries would stand besides another country because they were banned because of doping allegations. Has this happened before? How many dropped out of Rio because the track and field team was banned?

Cuba doesn't even have a team, North Korea has one pair that we dont even know will go regardless of Russia. Kazakhstan would be a large loss (18 competitor spots) but why would they withdrawal?

I was just playing devil's advocate. I was being mostly tongue in cheek. However, Kazakhstan's hard line leaders are sort of Russian puppets, do who knows?

 

[caseyedwards]

Russia being banned for doping is not a solidarity causing event! Russia can’t prove rodchenkov is being paid by us or anything and so it’s just nothing to cause sympathy boycotts.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I think this is probably being discussed here today but I just read this article.

So if Russia is allowed to compete then their flags can't be displayed anywhere, and their anthem will never be played, etc etc

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/sports/olympics/russia-doping.html

"If they do not bar Russia completely from the coming Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang, South Korea, they are likely to keep all Russian emblems out of the Games: The Russian flag would not fly at the opening and closing ceremonies, Russian athletes would compete in neutral uniforms and the Russian anthem would not be played."

Olympic Doping Diaries: Chemist’s
Notes Bolster Case Against Russia

 

[Bellanca]

I was just playing devil's advocate. I was being mostly tongue in cheek. However, Kazakhstan's hard line leaders are sort of Russian puppets, do who knows?

Russia has their "puppets." They still yield significant influence around the world. Do not underestimate leftover cold war mentalities. Walls go up pretty quickly when situations like this develop. Athletes do not like to have their dreams stripped away from them due to a country’s politics or a fellow teammate's doping scandal. Athletes usually stand together, and they do not particularly like to see innocent athletes in their own country or others dealt an unfair blow. To think that Russia does not hold power to sway and persuade is naïve. Now, we can continue to go around the (tiresome) horn about this, or we can agree to disagree so that we do not continue to hijack the thread from its original intention of suggesting that Russia is on the verge of being banned from the Olympic Games. I would just recommend that sensational articles and grandiose claims suggesting this be taken w/ a grain of salt.

 

[IceAlisa]

I think this is probably being discussed here today but I just read this article.

So if Russia is allowed to compete then their flags can't be displayed anywhere, and their anthem will never be played, etc etc

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/sports/olympics/russia-doping.html

"If they do not bar Russia completely from the coming Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang, South Korea, they are likely to keep all Russian emblems out of the Games: The Russian flag would not fly at the opening and closing ceremonies, Russian athletes would compete in neutral uniforms and the Russian anthem would not be played."

Olympic Doping Diaries: Chemist’s
Notes Bolster Case Against Russia

 

[Lanie]

Holy sh*t.

They SHOULD be banned.

 

[Bellanca]

I'm sure many would be thrilled to have Russia banned and then they can promptly b!tch about how the Olympic podiums are not legit for the next quarter century. Asterisk here, asterisk there. Keep in mind that not every Russian athlete is dirty. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Coco]

Boycotting in solidarity for political reasons is different then boycotting in solidarity with someone who's being punished for doping. I think if other countries boycotted because of Russia's ban, if there is a ban, the IOC should take sanctions against those countries. It's not that I think they're evil or anything, it's just that this is about doping. If you support a doper then you might as well be doping yourself.

If Russia did boycott it would not surprise me at all if Belarus and Uzbekistan boycotted as well

 

[Bellanca]

We have to be careful not to sweep all the Russian athletes under the same rug, to paint with such a broad brush. This is about doping and punishment for those who have been guilty of such things, not about widespread condemnation that punishes the innocent. Ask any clean, innocent athlete who has been caught up in a boycott. They will tell you how crushing and devastating missing out on one's Olympic dream has been for them. Easy for armchair critics to say 'ban them' because you don't know or understand unless you've experienced it.

 

[caseyedwards]

I think this is probably being discussed here today but I just read this article.

So if Russia is allowed to compete then their flags can't be displayed anywhere, and their anthem will never be played, etc etc

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/sports/olympics/russia-doping.html

"If they do not bar Russia completely from the coming Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang, South Korea, they are likely to keep all Russian emblems out of the Games: The Russian flag would not fly at the opening and closing ceremonies, Russian athletes would compete in neutral uniforms and the Russian anthem would not be played."

Olympic Doping Diaries: Chemist’s
Notes Bolster Case Against Russia

Not going to happen! Putin says it’s a total humiliation and boycott will happen. Unless he flip flops.

 

[caseyedwards]

We have to be careful not to sweep all the Russian athletes under the same rug, to paint with such a broad brush. This is about doping and punishment for those who have been guilty of such things, not about widespread condemnation that punishes the innocent. Ask any clean, innocent athlete who has been caught up in a boycott. They will tell you how crushing and devastating missing out on one's Olympic dream has been for them. Easy for armchair critics to say 'ban them' because you don't know or understand unless you've experienced it.

You must sweep all the Russians athletes under the same rug to change Russia and Putin.

 

[ks777]

We have to be careful not to sweep all the Russian athletes under the same rug, to paint with such a broad brush. This is about doping and punishment for those who have been guilty of such things, not about widespread condemnation that punishes the innocent. Ask any clean, innocent athlete who has been caught up in a boycott. They will tell you how crushing and devastating missing out on one's Olympic dream has been for them. Easy for armchair critics to say 'ban them' because you don't know or understand unless you've experienced it.

You must sweep all the Russians athletes under the same rug to change Russia and Putin.

Yep or they will never change.

 

[Coco]

For the record, I will be devastated if Russian figure skaters don't get to go. Especially if Voronov makes it.

 

[IceAlisa]

I don't know what you are talking about and whom you are addressing @Weve3 Is anyone who is taken seriously (not caseyedwards) advocating a total ban of any and all Russian athletes?

 

[caseyedwards]

I don't know what you are talking about and whom you are addressing @Weve3 Is anyone who is taken seriously (not caseyedwards) advocating a total ban of any and all Russian athletes?

Almost every national anti doping agency in the world wants all Russians banned!! They want a darya klashina standard for all Russians which is a joke! It’s a total ban.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/winter-sports/41266286

 

[Bellanca]

I don't know what you are talking about and whom you are addressing @Weve3

Then don't worry about it.

Is anyone who is taken seriously (not caseyedwards) advocating a total ban of any and all Russian athletes?

Yes, more than a few.

 

[skatingguy]

Yes, but lala didn’t say that swimmers have higher rate of asthma. Lala said that the winners swimmers have higher rate of asthma. That’s a huge difference.

But that's not true, swimmers with asthma are not more likely to earn medals.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-olympic-level-swimmers-idUSKBN0MT2I620150402

 

[IceAlisa]

Then don't worry about it.

I am not worried about it I want to know how feasible it is besides blathering about it on this thread.

Yes, more than a few.

Enough for you to worry about it?

 

[Bellanca]

^ Frankly, the majority of this thread has been nothing but blathering, to be completely honest. Lamenting (or wishful thinking) by a select few that Russia is about to be banned or should be banned, as the thread title suggests, is just a waste of everyone's time and energy. In any case, whatever people choose to read and believe is entirely their prerogative. I had mentioned the possibility of a few countries boycotting if this were to happen, and, boom, we were off to the races. Then again, cherry-picking a comment is not so unusual, as I have done it myself. However, to build a complete scenario around one word that I had used, boycott, in this case, and then for posters to carry on so much about it is . The bottom line is that of course Russia would have support if they were to be banned. It only takes a few additional countries to make a statement... Anyway, the point really isn't worth debating anymore because as far as I'm concerned, I expect Russia to be in South Korea - very soon. So, until then...

 

[IceAlisa]

So you mentioning the possibility of other countries boycotting (why would they?) is not blathering, lamenting or wishful thinking? How so?

 

[Bellanca]

So you mentioning the possibility of other countries boycotting (why would they?) is not blathering, lamenting or wishful thinking? How so?

Did you people not pay attention in history class?? Sheesh. Maybe it's time to hit the books for a refresher course. No offense, anyone, but History 101. Then again, education has been in the toilet for decades, so...

 

[IceAlisa]

Did you people not pay attention in history class?? Sheesh. Maybe it's time to hit the books for a refresher course. No offense, anyone, but History 101. Then again, education has been in the toilet for decades, so...

Oh please, enlighten us? We are all clearly dumber and less educated than you are...

*off to flush my worthless, worthless diplomas in the toilet. I am too dumb to recycle them.

 

[Bellanca]

Oh please, enlighten us? We are all clearly dumber and less educated than you are...

*off to flush my worthless, worthless diplomas in the toilet. I am too dumb to recycle them.

Enjoy the Olympics!

 

[Willin]

@Weve3 I've taken no fewer than five college history classes, including a history of athletics class and I still have no idea what you're talking about...

I don't think Russia will boycott, and if the country does I still think individual athletes will be able to and choose to compete. I do not see Russian figure skating being banned or boycotting, even if they can't compete under the Russian flag. Because even if they can't compete under the flag, winning a medal is still a propaganda tool, and perhaps a more powerful propaganda tool if they feel persecuted. They could angle it "the athletes that did compete are clean, as opposed to those rotten apples who were kicked out, and they were able to win anyways," or "no matter what flag they compete under, they are still the best." After all, once the athletes get back to Russia, or even in interviews at the Olympics, there is nothing stopping the athletes from celebrating in a patriotic way. As long as it's not at an official Olympic ceremony, they can still rep their country. At least in skating, the community is so small that I could see US, Japanese, and other skaters lobbying to allow Russian skaters compete.

I also think few countries would boycott in solidarity with Russia. Perhaps Ukraine due to current political pressure and recent Russian military actions to move into Ukraine, but even then I don't even think they will. Unless you name specifics and provide good, thorough analysis of why they would support the Olympics no one will believe you.

And yes, I will enjoy the Olympics. I will be disappointed if Russian skaters cannot compete, but that's out of my hands, so I will enjoy what I can and cheer for those I can watch.