Increasingly likely “Russia” will be banned from Pyeongchang

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I doubt they will be expelled from the IOC but I think it is highly unlikely that Russia will be allowed to compete under its own flag in Pyeongchang. The Oswald Commission backs up the MacLaren Report entirely.
 
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Karen-W said:
I doubt they will be expelled from the IOS but I think it is highly unlikely that Russia will be allowed to compete under its own flag in Pyeongchang. The Oswald Commission backs up the MacLaren Report entirely.
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I bet if that happens ioc bans any athletes from getting to South Korea with government assistance or funding so that pretty much would ban all of them as individuals too.
 
DreamSkates said:
This is the report for one athlete?
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https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...be-intimidated-over-pyeongchang-2018-decision
https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...be-intimidated-over-pyeongchang-2018-decision
And, 19 Russians have been stripped of medals or placements and banned due to Sochi doping - from the sports of cross country skiing, bobsled, skeleton, biathlon, and speed skating.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...es-stripped-of-medals-in-latest-ioc-sanctions
 
The total is now 11 medals that have been stripped from Russian athletes for the 2014 Olympics - that's a third of the Russian total from the games.
 
@skatingguy @Karen-W I don't think Russian skating should be banned, as there's no evidence they doped, but with all those athletes being stripped of medals in those specific sports, maybe they should be banned.

The thing is, whether masterminded by Rodchenkov or the government (higher up members or lower status members trying to increase their rank), the coaches and trainers in these sports had to have known this was going on. Russia's government seems to admit that coaches in certain sports were involved in what they say is Rodchenkov's scheme. Unless these coaches are gone, it may be that the coaches are still complicit in doping, and who knows how many coaches in each of these sports were involved or how high up in the ranks these coaches were.
 
So far all the athletes that have been named have been banned for life from the Olympics. I'm sure most, if not all, of these athletes will appeal these bans and the loss of their Sochi results & medals to the Court for Arbitration in Sports. The CAS will be busy in the coming weeks with these cases and we will see whether the commission's decisions are upheld or not.
 
Willin said:
@skatingguy @Karen-W I don't think Russian skating should be banned, as there's no evidence they doped, but with all those athletes being stripped of medals in those specific sports, maybe they should be banned.

The thing is, whether masterminded by Rodchenkov or the government (higher up members or lower status members trying to increase their rank), the coaches and trainers in these sports had to have known this was going on. Russia's government seems to admit that coaches in certain sports were involved in what they say is Rodchenkov's scheme. Unless these coaches are gone, it may be that the coaches are still complicit in doping, and who knows how many coaches in each of these sports were involved or how high up in the ranks these coaches were.
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Willin - I understand your point of view re: athletes from non-doping sports. The problem is, that was the approach the IOC took in Rio and Russia (Putin) still refuses to admit that the Sochi doping had, at the very minimum, some degree of sanctioning from the government. The way the samples were exchanged couldn't have been done without security knowing what was happening. This wasn't something that one person did completely on their own without anyone else's knowledge. It is insulting to the intelligence of anyone with any degree of familiarity of how the Olympic blood/drug-screening process, especially AT the Olympics, works to claim that this was all done by Rodchenkov on his own. Baloney. If Putin wants to continue to claim that the Russian government had no involvement with nor did they sanction (explicitly or implicitly) Rodchenkov's actions, then they can suffer the consequences of their team not being allowed to participate at the Olympics as representatives of the Russian Federation. Maybe some brave NSF that doesn't have athletes who routinely dope (curling, figure skating, alpine skiing) will have the cajones to tell Putin that they're sending their athletes to Pyeongchang as independent athletes. It's certainly not fair to those athletes that they might not be allowed to compete. But, it's also horribly unfair to all of those athletes who did compete cleanly and lost out on their Olympic moment, on the podium, because of Putin's insatiable need to have Russia top the medals table in Sochi.
 
skatingguy said:
So far all the athletes that have been named have been banned for life from the Olympics. I'm sure most, if not all, of these athletes will appeal these bans and the loss of their Sochi results & medals to the Court for Arbitration in Sports. The CAS will be busy in the coming weeks with these cases and we will see whether the commission's decisions are upheld or not.
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CAS is going to be a disaster! No use Russia trying to get people thinking Rodchenkov is a liar. Everyone always believes him.
Willin said:
@skatingguy @Karen-W I don't think Russian skating should be banned, as there's no evidence they doped, but with all those athletes being stripped of medals in those specific sports, maybe they should be banned.

The thing is, whether masterminded by Rodchenkov or the government (higher up members or lower status members trying to increase their rank), the coaches and trainers in these sports had to have known this was going on. Russia's government seems to admit that coaches in certain sports were involved in what they say is Rodchenkov's scheme. Unless these coaches are gone, it may be that the coaches are still complicit in doping, and who knows how many coaches in each of these sports were involved or how high up in the ranks these coaches were.
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Coaches trainers and all the athletes. Like no athletes were talking about sending all their doping information to the ministry?

Karen-W said:
Willin - I understand your point of view re: athletes from non-doping sports. The problem is, that was the approach the IOC took in Rio and Russia (Putin) still refuses to admit that the Sochi doping had, at the very minimum, some degree of sanctioning from the government. The way the samples were exchanged couldn't have been done without security knowing what was happening. This wasn't something that one person did completely on their own without anyone else's knowledge. It is insulting to the intelligence of anyone with any degree of familiarity of how the Olympic blood/drug-screening process, especially AT the Olympics, works to claim that this was all done by Rodchenkov on his own. Baloney. If Putin wants to continue to claim that the Russian government had no involvement with nor did they sanction (explicitly or implicitly) Rodchenkov's actions, then they can suffer the consequences of their team not being allowed to participate at the Olympics as representatives of the Russian Federation. Maybe some brave NSF that doesn't have athletes who routinely dope (curling, figure skating, alpine skiing) will have the cajones to tell Putin that they're sending their athletes to Pyeongchang as independent athletes. It's certainly not fair to those athletes that they might not be allowed to compete. But, it's also horribly unfair to all of those athletes who did compete cleanly and lost out on their Olympic moment, on the podium, because of Putin's insatiable need to have Russia top the medals table in Sochi.
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Yeah what is putin thinking? The people enjoyed the Sochi Olympics as it happened and it was seen as a big success that Russia triumphed during. So it was a success as it happened. So it was a big political winner and nothing can ever really change that. So if they ever want to be in an Olympics again why not just admit the whole thing was fixed and phony and get right back to normal status. The main point is I don’t think it will hurt him to say he fixed the Sochi Olympics. It might actually show his power.
 
skatingguy said:
The total is now 11 medals that have been stripped from Russian athletes for the 2014 Olympics - that's a third of the Russian total from the games.
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Do the podium finishers and 4th place finishers get their replacement medals after these athletes' medals are stripped?

But even if they do, the glory (and money opportunities) would have been gone by now.
 
Marco said:
Do the podium finishers and 4th place finishers get their replacement medals after these athletes' medals are stripped?

But even if they do, the glory (and money opportunities) would have been gone by now.
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Eventually I think the medals will be redistributed to the athletes who finished 4th or 5th depending on the circumstances. First they have finish all the reviews of the Russian athletes that have been implicated because every couple days they are updating the list of disqualifications. Then those athletes have the opportunity to appeal to the CAS and I think once those cases have been heard then the medals can be redistributed.

I kind of hope that the new medal ceremonies for these events might be held in Pyeongchang during the Olympics. Many of the athletes involved will be there anyway and it's a way to really recognize the clean athletes/teams when the world is watching.
 
Norwegian media writes that it's probable the fourth and fifth place finishers, and so on, will receive medals. They also write it's very probable Russia will be banned. Of course, they don't have any different sources than the rest of us, but they are really into the case, as Norwegians are so crazy about cross country skiing :p
 
LarrySK8 said:
Russian President Vladimir Putin has blamed the U.S. for quietly pushing the investigation.
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I can bet my house they are doing just that. As I am sure Russian gov. did know about the doping.
In the end dirty politics wins the day, no matter what, and clean athletes are always the victims. It's a mess and it is sad.
 
SmallFairy said:
Norwegian media writes that it's probable the fourth and fifth place finishers, and so on, will receive medals. They also write it's very probable Russia will be banned. Of course, they don't have any different sources than the rest of us, but they are really into the case, as Norwegians are so crazy about cross country skiing :p
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I read many norwegian cross country skiiers have asthma. They have TUE.
What a lucky coincidence!
 
lala said:
I read many norwegian cross country skiiers have asthma. They have TUE.
What a lucky coincidence!
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This has to be the dumbest defense of the Russian doping. The Russians should get away with doping because those people over there have legitimate medical conditions for which they were granted Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs). The TUEs are available to all athletes, they are scrutinized, and it is not simply a matter of applying and bam you get a TUE. Here is an example of a Norwegian Cross-Country Skier who was preliminary suspended last year for a couple months for taking medication that is banned, Trofodermin, that was contained in a lip balm. The athlete claimed that is was taken by accident to treat sun-burnt, and chapped lips.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/norway-therese-johaug-drug-ban-1.3811646
After further investigation she was given a 13-month ban. That was appealed by the FIS, and the CAS applied an 18-month ban which keep her from competing at the Olympics.
 
Karen-W said:
Willin - I understand your point of view re: athletes from non-doping sports. The problem is, that was the approach the IOC took in Rio and Russia (Putin) still refuses to admit that the Sochi doping had, at the very minimum, some degree of sanctioning from the government. The way the samples were exchanged couldn't have been done without security knowing what was happening. This wasn't something that one person did completely on their own without anyone else's knowledge. It is insulting to the intelligence of anyone with any degree of familiarity of how the Olympic blood/drug-screening process, especially AT the Olympics, works to claim that this was all done by Rodchenkov on his own. Baloney. If Putin wants to continue to claim that the Russian government had no involvement with nor did they sanction (explicitly or implicitly) Rodchenkov's actions, then they can suffer the consequences of their team not being allowed to participate at the Olympics as representatives of the Russian Federation. Maybe some brave NSF that doesn't have athletes who routinely dope (curling, figure skating, alpine skiing) will have the cajones to tell Putin that they're sending their athletes to Pyeongchang as independent athletes. It's certainly not fair to those athletes that they might not be allowed to compete. But, it's also horribly unfair to all of those athletes who did compete cleanly and lost out on their Olympic moment, on the podium, because of Putin's insatiable need to have Russia top the medals table in Sochi.
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SO Rodchenkov rec'd the no's of the samples that needed to be switched via emails from higher-ups who had the numbers from the athletes who texted them to app.people. The only reason it was exposed was someone else in the complete know of the doping died under very suspicious circumstances which Rodchenkov believed was a murder to ensure a coverup so he blew the whistle to save his life.
So..would this be a good move for a figureskater...The money comes from the state to train and compete.A coach could be told they are too busy to train that athlete.

In a perfect world maybe...I wish they could but..??
 
skatingguy said:
This has to be the dumbest defense of the Russian doping. The Russians should get away with doping because those people over there have legitimate medical conditions for which they were granted Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs). The TUEs are available to all athletes, they are scrutinized, and it is not simply a matter of applying and bam you get a TUE. Here is an example of a Norwegian Cross-Country Skier who was preliminary suspended last year for a couple months for taking medication that is banned, Trofodermin, that was contained in a lip balm. The athlete claimed that is was taken by accident to treat sun-burnt, and chapped lips.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/norway-therese-johaug-drug-ban-1.3811646
After further investigation she was given a 13-month ban. That was appealed by the FIS, and the CAS applied an 18-month ban which keep her from competing at the Olympics.
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I didn't say it in defense of the Russians. I just find this thing very interesting . The medicine of asthma is a big help for swimmers and cross country skiiers and that is irrelevant with TUE or not! One of the Hungarian swimmers(I'm Hungarian) told last year when these informations came from the Russian hacker team and many articles were written in the media in this matter he tried to swim with inhaler ( I don't know what is the exact name of it in english) and he swum very easy, he could brathe much more easily, he flied in the water... But he didn't want to be asthmatic......
 
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lala said:
I didn't say it in defense of the Russians. I just find this thing very interesting . The medicine of asthma is a big help for swimmers and cross country skiiers and that is irrelevant with TUE or not! One of the Hungarian swimmers(I'm Hungarian) told last year when these information came from the Russian hacker team and many articles were written in the media in this matter he tried to swim with inhaler ( I don't know what is the exact name of it in english) and he swum very easy, he could brathe much more easily, he flied in the water... But he didn't want to be asthmatic......
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Absolutely, the athletes are under enormous scrutiny for everything they put in their body and they have to be so careful regarding the use of medications, and supplements.
 
skatingguy said:
Absolutely, the athletes are under enormous scrutiny for everything they put in their body and they have to be so careful regarding the use of medications, and supplements.
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Oh...you didn't want to understand me..The asthmatic skiiers and swimmers are using the inhaler legally. And if you check how many Oly champs have asthma you will be surprised. So there are two options the real asthmatic athlets have big advantage. The second option many of them are cheater and they want to win with false medical diagnosis. But they have big advantage, too. The final conclusion they would compete separately.
 
Interesting to read the IIHF plus several national hockey federations speaking out against the blanket ban. I wonder which other federations will do the same.
 
@lala I guarantee you that asthma is not something people get a false diagnosis to win with. It's really something that is just that common, particularly in Western countries. And asthma medicines don't give you an advantage unless you're taking them incorrectly.

For clarification: the day to day medications are medications specifically related to the pathophysiology of asthma, to decrease the inflammatory response of the lungs (inhaled steroids), to decrease or prevent the specific inflammatory response related to asthma symptoms (allergy shots/medication, leukotriene modifiers), or to keep the airways open on a longer term (LABAs).
The thing that might help is SABA inhalers, but those are meant for sudden symptoms. These are the inhalers athletes with asthma might take when they're wheezing or very short of breath.

ETA: Research has actually found that even the SABA and LABA inhalers have no meaningful effect on athletic performance in elite athletes.
 
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