Increasingly likely “Russia” will be banned from Pyeongchang

[Vash01]

So the only way to win the gold is to remove Russia from competition? How low can these people sink? I will not watch the Olympic figure skating if the Russian skaters are not allowed to compete.

They damaged Russia's chances of getting three spots in ice dance by falsely disqualifying their top couple. They tried to take away Olympic medals from winners of the 2014 games, so they could award those medals to North American skaters.

That said, I cannot ignore who started this thread. So There is room for doubt. It may be better to wait and see what happens. However, I cannot ignore the injustices that have already been done.

 

[Willin]

@caseyedwards Umm... Did you read the article? They're considering a number of options including a lot that don't include banning Russian athletes. These include not playing the anthem at the Olympics and not letting Russia be in the opening ceremony.

Also, according to the article:

Thomas Bach, president of the International Olympic Committee, said in an interview with The New York Times on Tuesday that he was unaware the Paralympic Committee was requiring Russia to be cleared by antidoping regulators, and he suggested he saw no problem with allowing the nation to compete even as it is deemed uncooperative by the global watchdog.

“I think everybody would like to see RUSADA working at full speed so that the Russian athletes can be tested,” Mr. Bach said, using the acronym for Russia’s antidoping agency. “The past has to be sanctioned. The question now is about the future, and these are two different things.”

Basically, it sounds like he has no problem with them competing, and that if any punishment is handed out he supports that punishment being the removal of past medals as opposed to banning future appearances by Russian athletes.

 

[caseyedwards]

@caseyedwards Umm... Did you read the article? They're considering a number of options including a lot that don't include banning Russian athletes. These include not playing the anthem at the Olympics and not letting Russia be in the opening ceremony.

Also, according to the article:

Basically, it sounds like he has no problem with them competing, and that if any punishment is handed out he supports that punishment being the removal of past medals as opposed to banning future appearances by Russian athletes.

I did read it and it doesn’t now reflect all other reports that have subsequently been published. I just used that article to show the biggest news sources now report rusada is still suspended. Now almost all say now russia will probably be banned completely! And talking to Bach on Tuesday is now pretty meaningless.

 

[skatfan]

I think the fact that Russia had two years to clean up their act and test athletes regularly and didn't means that the IOC will have to do something severe- otherwise it is all a joke to require testing. I'll be very sad for the skaters if they can't go, but I'll understand why.

 

[SmallFairy]

I truly hope the Russian figure skaters are allowed to compete in Korea!!

Norwegian press (who is mostly accurate) have written a lot about Russia and the doping matter, but it's winter sports time and our journalists have focused on skiing, and the Russian athletes that won medals in Sochi but are now stripped of these and banned from Olympics for life. Today is the first day in a long time they have an article actually saying something about banning Russia. Because Russian won't admit they have/had a doping program run by the Russian state, WADA won't lift the ban on Russia's anti-doping agency. If the ban is not lifted, Norwegian press writes "Russia can as a whole, or partly, be banned from participation in the Olympic Games".

Ok, so they banned all Russian track & fields athletes from summer Olympic Games. I don't know if that was right or wrong, but I do feel strongly that it's totally unfair to ban figure skaters, or curlers or whoever, in sports where there is no history of doping, and where you can't point to anyone being caught, at all, for years and years. Of course, I can't say no figure skaters were ever doped, but there has been no cases of it in the open (except from the unfortunate flu med and so), but oh-of-course-there-has-been in cross country skiing, for Russia and for several other nations. Ok, if that's the problem, ban the skiers then. Figure skating, or curling, or whatever, are not exactly doping sports. Seriously, when Russian swimmers can compete, figure skaters must be allowed to compete.

 

[caseyedwards]

I think the fact that Russia had two years to clean up their act and test athletes regularly and didn't means that the IOC will have to do something severe- otherwise it is all a joke to require testing. I'll be very sad for the skaters if they can't go, but I'll understand why.

Even though Russia did give UKAD total testing authority on all Russian athletes UKAD did say they didn’t have enough money and were sometimes harassed.

 

[caseyedwards]

I truly hope the Russian figure skaters are allowed to compete in Korea!!

Norwegian press (who is mostly accurate) have written a lot about Russia and the doping matter, but it's winter sports time and our journalists have focused on skiing, and the Russian athletes that won medals in Sochi but are now stripped of these and banned from Olympics for life. Today is the first day in a long time they have an article actually saying something about banning Russia. Because Russian won't admit they have/had a doping program run by the Russian state, WADA won't lift the ban on Russia's anti-doping agency. If the ban is not lifted, Norwegian press writes "Russia can as a whole, or partly, be banned from participation in the Olympic Games".

Ok, so they banned all Russian track & fields athletes from summer Olympic Games. I don't know if that was right or wrong, but I do feel strongly that it's totally unfair to ban figure skaters, or curlers or whoever, in sports where there is no history of doping, and where you can't point to anyone being caught, at all, for years and years. Of course, I can't say no figure skaters were ever doped, but there has been no cases of it in the open (except from the unfortunate flu med and so), but oh-of-course-there-has-been in cross country skiing, for Russia and for several other nations. Ok, if that's the problem, ban the skiers then. Figure skating, or curling, or whatever, are not exactly doping sports. Seriously, when Russian swimmers can compete, figure skaters must be allowed to compete.

But now everyone knows just banning Russian track and field from Rio didn’t mean anything and russia didn’t really change. Putin saw all but one athlete be banned and he didn’t admit he did the doping program. So if just some skiiers are banned how does putin make the admission everyone is requiring of him?

 

[Tahuu]

According to Christine Brennan's article today, RUSADA has not tested or tested only once many top winter athletes this year. So I went and checked USADA's test history on US figure skaters and here's the link https://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/. Just choose from the pull-down menu for 2017 and figure skating and hit "Search." You'll see all the skaters' test history for this year, ex. Max was tested 2x, Jason 4x, Nathan 4x, Josh 1x, Adam 1x, Vincent 2x, etc. An interesting observation and thread drift: Does the testing frequency suggest USOC puts much more stock on Jason and Nathan for their potential Olympic selection?

 

[Japanfan]

It would make the ladies’ event a travesty. And since that is the marquee event of the whole Games, I just don’t believe the PTB are stupid enough to let this happen.

If Russian figure skaters were to be banned from competing - and I am not convinced whatsoever that this will happen - the competition would go on and others would step up to the plate.

Most casual fans who only watch figure skating during the Olympics wouldn't even know who Med, B/S and Voronov are.

 

[Willin]

@Tahuu Technically it's random, but athletes also face mandatory testing at Nationals. I don't know in figure skating, but I've heard that in other sports they'll test athletes they think are performing abnormally well (or who make a massive leap in ability from season to season) more often. Some athletes also get tested more frequently due to league/governing body rules - mostly those who compete in NCAA competitions, so no skaters.

 

[Jarrett]

What is Russia in quotes? Are they known by another name?

 

[caseyedwards]

What is Russia in quotes? Are they known by another name?

Some people believed Russians wouldn’t be banned just not allowed to compete for Russia but Putin is likely to ban that for the Olympics. So that is why Russia is in quotes. For example Medvedeva could have won gold not representing any country. The Olympic flag would go up and the Olympic anthem play. But now I’m sure that would ruin her chances to be in any shows or have any fame in Russia.

 

[Jarrett]

Some people believed Russians wouldn’t be banned just not allowed to compete for Russia but Putin is likely to ban that for the Olympics. So that is why Russia is in quotes. For example Medvedeva could have won gold not representing any country. The Olympic flag would go up and the Olympic anthem play. But now I’m sure that would ruin her chances to be in any shows or have any fame in Russia.

Interesting. I am not sure how a skater would go to the Olympics not representing a country since the spots are awarded to the country not the skater.

 

[Japanfan]

Interesting. I am not sure how a skater would go to the Olympics not representing a country since the spots are awarded to the country not the skater.

There is a category for Independent Olympians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Olympians_at_the_Olympic_Games

 

[caseyedwards]

Interesting. I am not sure how a skater would go to the Olympics not representing a country since the spots are awarded to the country not the skater.

It’s more like banning all traces of the Russian state rather than eliminating All Russian entries. They still recognize Russia as a country that qualified people but bans all public acknowledgement of that country by the Athletes and organizers.

 

[Jarrett]

Thanks for the info Japanfan and caseyedwards!

 

[lala]

1980 Moscow Summer OG. Many western athletes competed there under Olympic flag.

 

[Bulletsdad]

If Russia is banned, I will get my "mime" fix on "America's Got Talent." No problem!

 

[Coquelicot14]

That was not effective in getting putin to admit there was state sponsored doping

Repeating things over and over again without solid evidence does not make it true, it makes it propoganda. Unless they can present irrefutable evidence, and so far they haven't, that is all there is. So far what we have seen is careers and reputations ruined based on some BS accusations, which are then taken back by the agencies as it was with the Russian figure skaters. More clearances are to come, but again, no one will care because as AxelAnnie has pointed out, it is "delightful" to watch the drama.

 

[rfisher]

Repeating things over and over again without solid evidence does not make it true, it makes it propoganda.

Oh, it does to casey. Just read their PI posts.

 

[Seerek]

There is recent precedent. At the 2017 World Track and Field Championships, they played the IAAF anthem when Mariya Lasitskene won gold in women's high jump as an "authorized neutral athlete".

 

[debo]

There is recent precedent. At the 2017 World Track and Field Championships, they played the IAAF anthem when Mariya Lasitskene won gold in women's high jump as an "authorized neutral athlete".

In a case like this, do you know if she needed her country’s “permission” to compete, or was she more of an independent agent?

 

[barbarafan]

This one:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/story/868697001/

The article says that they might not reinstate Russia as they have refused to follow the directions of Wada. ie admitting guilt in situations proven. Access to testing labs. And testing restrictions.

So it is Gov. of Russia who refuses to cooperate. They obviously do not care about all the innocent athletes who will suffer because of this.

 

[Coquelicot14]

The article says that they might not reinstate Russia as they have refused to follow the directions of Wada. ie admitting guilt in situations proven. Access to testing labs. And testing restrictions.

So it is Gov. of Russia who refuses to cooperate. They obviously do not care about all the innocent athletes who will suffer because of this.

WADA is not infallible itself, especially after their failer to properly investigate and research with the Meldonium fiasco. Can they be trusted to be objective, or is it politics?

 

[barbarafan]

WADA is not infallible itself, especially after their failer to properly investigate and research with the Meldonium fiasco. Can they be trusted to be objective, or is it politics?

Objective or not....Person who was in charge testified he and others did it and proof was found..Emails were found stating which ones were bad...When you subst.animal urine and sex is wrong pls..... They would not have been caught had he not blown the whistle which he did because one other had already been killed as coverup and he feared for his life. Many people in Russia today think there is nothing wrong with cheating...even on this forum so if the State has another way of doing it there will be athletes who will participate. This week I saw a news article where a coach is furious with one of his team who he feels told on the other 3 of the team. The only way to save the innocent athletes is to allow whatever extra testing is called for. Then all will rejoice at their medals they earn. The only ones losing are the ones who cheat.

 

[Ka3sha]

@barbarafan , I won’t argue with you even if I don’t agree with almost everything you said, but this:

Many people in Russia today think there is nothing wrong with cheating...even on this forum

is just insane.

Maybe there are few idiots who actually believe that cheating is good, but such idiots exist in each country.

 

[Vash01]

If Russian figure skaters were to be banned from competing - and I am not convinced whatsoever that this will happen - the competition would go on and others would step up to the plate.

Most casual fans who only watch figure skating during the Olympics wouldn't even know who Med, B/S and Voronov are.

I don't care about casual fans, I care about fairness. The best athletes must win, not Lesser ones who won only because the best were not allowed to compete for political reasons. It seems you are ok with unfairness as long as skaters from your country win. I want the best athlete to win, regardless of nationality.

If the Russian ladies are banned, I would not consider the winner a true winner. It would be robbery. I will say good bye to figure skating at that point. I have no desire to be a fan of a dirty political sport.

I was thinking this morning that even though Bobrova and Sotnikova were cleared later, the damage was already done. Now that they are bringing this potential ban on Russian figure skaters (I will stick with FS for this discussion), it could affect their training mentally. An athlete may not feel 100 percent motivated to train to the fullest if he or she doesn't know for sure if they would actually get to compete.

This is so unfair on so many levels! The west has always accused the eastern bloc and particularly Russia but the west has sunk to the lowest level in playing politics and robbing the deserving Russian athletes .

 

[zoe111]

I don't care about casual fans, I care about fairness. The best athletes must win, not Lesser ones who won only because the best were not allowed to compete for political reasons. It seems you are ok with unfairness as long as skaters from your country win. I want the best athlete to win, regardless of nationality.

If the Russian ladies are banned, I would not consider the winner a true winner. It would be robbery. I will say good bye to figure skating at that point. I have no desire to be a fan of a dirty political sport.

I was thinking this morning that even though Bobrova and Sotnikova were cleared later, the damage was already done. Now that they are bringing this potential ban on Russian figure skaters (I will stick with FS for this discussion), it could affect their training mentally. An athlete may not feel 100 percent motivated to train to the fullest if he or she doesn't know for sure if they would actually get to compete.

This is so unfair on so many levels! The west has always accused the eastern bloc and particularly Russia but the west has sunk to the lowest level in playing politics and robbing the deserving Russian athletes .

I agree with this. There's zero evidence any one in figure skating cheated and if they were able to have the individual sports governing bodies decide it last time, I think that should at least be an option this time. If the Russian figure skaters don't go, ladies in particular will be a joke. Quite realistically Russia could have/probably would have won Gold and most likely silver. Possibly even bronze if the Canadians or Japanese were having a bad day. Medvedeva has dominated ladies skating for 2 years. Zagitova dominated juniors last year (even if I don't think she's that great ) and Tsurskaya (who may or may not make the team) dominated juniors the year before.

 

[poths]

Thomas Bach: "The participation of Russian athletes in the 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang does not depend on the restoration of the status of RUSADA". To me, this translates as "RUSADA have made no real changes, but I want Russian athletes to compete so...I don't actually care".

What Bach wants, Bach gets.

 

[suki]

They tried to take away Olympic medals from winners of the 2014 games, so they could award those medals to North American skaters.

I am confused by this statement. Russia did very well in Sochi. Even if they tried to take medals from Russians, it would not necessarily benefit North American skaters, since the medals were spread among Asian and European countries as well.