I, Tonya

aftershocks said:
And now why can't we have a film about figure skating that has less to do with scandal, and more to do with what the sport is actually about? :drama:
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BINGO! If the fear is that such a subject for a movie would be too 'humdrum', what about some personal stories (Joannie Rochette competing two days after her mother died, Elizabeth Punsalan dealing with the news of her younger brother murdering their mother) that have that something extra? There were TV movies about the 'Orphan' Oksana Baiul, the Duchesnays, it's a sad state of affairs when scandal is the easiest road to big ratings.
 
MR-FAN said:
Here's the review I read this morning, CANNOT WAIT to see this!!

http://collider.com/i-tonya-review/amp/
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Excerpt from the review:
"I, Tonya asks us to reconsider what we thought we knew in the 90s and realize that the headlines and the punchlines obscured a darker and more difficult story. I, Tonya may not “redeem” Tonya Harding, but she never asked for redemption. She merely asked for respect, and I, Tonya provides it with biting honesty."

To be honest, I knew at the time (as I'm sure did many others who were and are long-time followers of the sport) that Tonya was a brilliant figure skater and an amazing athlete (well before and after the infamous incident). I didn't know a lot about the abuse she suffered from. But I found out right after the whacking incident, and I was appalled for Tonya as a young girl with so much talent who had to endure that kind of physical and mental abuse (as well as ignorance). So, I personally had sympathy for Tonya during that time (and I had always rooted for her beforehand as a talented and gutsy competitor). I knew that the whacking incident was not a strict black and white story. There were also enterprising reporters who were attempting to uncover the nuances of Tonya's story at the time. Everybody was not completely against her, nor blindly blamed her. But she did bear responsibility. The biggest issue surrounding her culpability and how she came to be viewed by the skating community, may have been the rebellious stance she took. Granted she may have taken that stance out of fear of retribution from Gillooly. I also think the media (as usual) bears a great deal of responsibility for how the story was covered in such a 'villain vs innocent victim' fashion. It is the media who is largely responsible for the 'punchline' nature of how the story was covered, and for the ill-conceived headlines.

I do blame the skating community for not having any leadership and vision (as usual) in understanding how to effectively manage the complicated incident and especially its aftermath. Instead of going along with the flow of how the larger world was erroneously viewing how the incident was characterizing figure skating, TPTB simply chose to bask in the limelight and to financially capitalize on the increased interest in the sport. Instead, they should have corrected the media's erroneous assumptions and sought to use the bright light of exposure that the incident shed for the higher purpose of showing what the sport was truly about. :duh:

Apparently, some people in figure skating were unsure about whether to absolve Tonya of guilt regarding the exact details of her involvement in the plot. IOW, why wasn't Tonya able to find someone within skating to confess to prior to the incident happening in order to wash her hands of it and to request immunity from any blame, so that she might still have been able to fight for and maintain her career? Well, I guess we'll see how the movie deals with some of these aspects of Tonya's own guilt and motivations. Sure, mental and physical abuse (coupled with ignorance) can cause a person to make the wrong choices.

In any case, there was already (as I recall) a documentary film (or else it came later) which showed Tonya's abuse at the hands of her mother. People within the skating community knew something about it as well. There were people in skating who tried to reach out to help Tonya during her career (prior to the incident). I don't know all aspects of what happened, but I've heard that part of the problem was the off-putting way Tonya responded to people reaching out to her. Of course, Tonya's personality and prickliness is probably largely due to trying to protect herself, and so understandably she faced the world with a tough shell. I sympathize with her in that respect. But clearly, it was difficult for people within skating to do as much to help her (before the incident) as many tried to do. They could not obviously play the roles of therapist, mentor, financial sponsor, encourager, sympathizer, and enabler all-in-one, especially not with the way Tonya put up such a hard, tough shell. In fact, Tonya likely rejected the help offered by a number of people (even some of her coaches), as part of her feelings of being rejected and abused. And unfortunately, she ran into the arms of yet another abuser, in Jeff Gillooly, which led to devastating and life-changing consequences.

I will wait and see how a Hollywood movie is going to handle these complex nuances, but going in, I'm a bit skeptical that it's possible. Part of my skepticism has to do with the fact that I'm not sure they are going to get much of the skating aspects of the story right either. Figure skating is a complicated, little understood sport enough as it is! Couple that with this kind of highly emotionally-charged, scandalous and myth-making ('scrappy misunderstood athlete against the world') type of story and the only thing skilled filmmakers and actors can do is to make choices re what they are going to focus on, and what aspects of the still unknowable story they will choose to attempt to unravel.
 
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Jot the Dot Dot said:
BINGO! If the fear is that such a subject for a movie would be too 'humdrum', what about some personal stories (Joannie Rochette competing two days after her mother died, Elizabeth Punsalan dealing with the news of her younger brother murdering their mother) that have that something extra? There were TV movies about the 'Orphan' Oksana Baiul, the Duchesnays, it's a sad state of affairs when scandal is the easiest road to big ratings.
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I have a head fantasy of adapting the book The Second Mark into a miniseries. I imagined four distinct visual styles for the Salle/Pellteier background, Shen/Zhao background, Berezhnaya/Sikarulidze background stories and the skating competition scenes when all three pairs converge. I think the material itself delves deep into a lot of issues outside and inside of skating and since all three backgrounds are different they will showcase different issues.
 
essence_of_soy said:
Short interview with the cast. Who knew Allison Janney wanted to be a figure skater growing up. Now I love her even more!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpksfcwHCGE
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Thanks for sharing. That's so interesting about Janney's interest in figure skating! I wonder what it was like for her when she realized that she was growing too tall for the sport? I'm so glad she became a wonderful actor instead. :)

Hollywood and these type of promotional interviews lend themselves to sound-bites, which obviously can never be conducive to telling all aspects of this type of emotionally-charged story. Once again, are the filmmakers even aware that a lot was already known within the skating community about the abuse Tonya suffered from? Are they aware that there was a documentary film made (before the incident) which showed the abuse Tonya had suffered from a little girl at the hands of her mother? The larger story is why no one in her family nor in the local community intervened to help that young girl in the crisis of her devastating family situation (forget about the skating world) before it was too late?! Reminds me of the story of Michelle Knight who had been abused for many years as a child in a dysfunctional family in Cleveland, well before she was abducted by Ariel Castro and horrifically abused for 10 years before being rescued. It was the system that let Knight down in the first place! She should have been rescued as a child from suffering neglect and abuse at the hands of her family, well before she was abducted as a teenager.

So yes, the childhood abuse aspects of Tonya's story were glossed over or largely unknown by the larger world outside of skating, and the skating community does bear some responsibility. But once again, so does Tonya. She made some wrong choices. And why she made some of the wrong choices she did is not strictly based upon the abuse she suffered from. Sure, Tonya deserved and deserves respect, but to a significant degree, it was she herself who threw respect and the opportunities that were offered to her, in the trash bin (likely out of a sense of feeling victimized). What Tonya failed to come to grips with is that figure skating is a political sport. Once she became successful, she needed to make wiser choices regarding her career. I suspect she became angry about not being handed things on a silver platter. Plus, her anger against other athletes being favored over her is what destroyed her (no matter the reasons how her anger was likely formed partly as a result of her dysfunctional upbringing). Her rebelliousness and competitiveness should be admired, but her ignorance and her own prejudices (clearly fostered by the environment in which she was raised) should not be ignored in the rush (for the entertainment value) to rebuild her reputation and reveal to a larger audience the complicated and misunderstood nuances of her story.
 
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Sure and it is exciting for skating to be featured in a big-time movie. And I do think it's important to support the project with the goal of advocating for more and better movies about figure skating (but realistically it's likely the aspects of the story that transcend skating which triggered interest in the story by the filmmakers). And, for the most part, Hollywood movie-making tends to rely upon too many over-dramatic cliches and too often does not get things right. Most of the time, Hollywood is not even close in the accuracy of their portrayals and characterizations. I think Blades of Glory in its approach was rather unique in how it kind of turned some of the parody on its head in unexpected ways.

However, The Cutting Edge is pure cheese, similar to some of the movies that have only skin-deep attempted to portray the ballet world (e.g., The Turning Point). Personally @VIETgrlTerifa, I'm with you in that I'd love to see a skilled filmmaker take on The Second Mark in a way that truly enhances and reveals the essence of what the sport is about (in all of its many complications and nuances, while highlighting PAIRS!!!) :cheer2: Also, I'd love to see a film about Laurence Owen carefully developed, with a focus on her mother (Maribel Vinson Owen) too, and how she passed down the sport to her two daughters. The tragedy of their deaths should not overshadow Maribel's enormous contributions to the sport and Laurence's amazing potential as a future champion. And also, what about telling the story of Condoleeza Rice's adventures as a young figure skater, and 'The Debi Thomas Story: Soul on Ice,' would be interesting if genuinely and honestly developed and produced. In fact, as the real history reveals to us (thanks in many respects to @N_Halifax's contributions), there are in figure skating, a million stories to tell, and then some! I'd love to see for a change, a story about the unlikely pairs adventure of Michelle McCladdie and Richard Ewell, for example. :watch: Oh, and Mabel Fairbanks' story is absolute gold waiting to be mined!!! Ditto the concentration camp heroics to skating coach heroics of the inimitable and unforgettable Ellen Burka!!! Toller Cranston vs John Curry to me provokes the question: Why hasn't their amazingly entertwined and/or individual out-sized and legendary stories been told yet in either movie drama or major documentary formats! :duh:

Sorry for being so skeptical prior to seeing the actual I, Tonya movie. However, since I wasn't born yesterday and I've studied many aspects of film history, filmmaking and the entertainment industry (coupled with my understanding of figure skating), I don't think the actual film is going to provide many surprises that will change my pre-assessment. FWIW, it will likely be a very well-produced and well-acted movie, but I seriously doubt that it will or can tell all the complicated nuances as a one-off feature film. It probably focuses on telling things from Tonya's perspective. But whether or not she herself has evolved and matured in her attitudes, outlooks, and understanding of her own life and the motivations behind some of her regrettable choices, is questionable. I will be interested to discover how much actual in-depth research the filmmakers were able to do, prior to making the necessary choices involved in focusing on how to dramatically approach retelling the story.

A mini-series might have been a better vehicle for a more nuanced and in-depth re-telling. And even better would be a documentary undertaken and approached with the kind of compelling dedication and honesty of the well-received nonfiction film, O.J.: Made in America.

Ah well, here's a list of some of the ice-skating movies that have been made in the past (along with a full video of Ice Angel: Going for the Gold). Admittedly, aside from the original The Cutting Edge, Blades of Glory, the original Ice Castles, and Champions: A Love Story, I have not seen many of these films, particularly the more recent productions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdGFac5zhQw

https://www.thoughtco.com/figure-skating-movies-1282176
 
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The Kerrigan character is way down in the cast listing, so her role might be small.
 
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aftershocks said:
And now, why can't we have a film about figure skating that has less to do with scandal, and more to do with what the sport is actually about? :drama:
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You will be glad to know that I am working on a screenplay entitled "Tracings: The Beatrix Scuba Story." It focuses on her disappointment at the 1968 Olympics, her decision to concentrate on figures, and her victory in Sapporo. Roughly 80% of the running time will be dedicated to showing her practicing figure eights. ;)
 
It's unfortunate that "the whack" remains the most iconic part of American figure skating for the general public, but how I see it, it'll bring more attention to figure skating than the last couple Olympic seasons so that's also a plus. I actually think that a movie about the lead up to and the 2010 Olympics would be fantastic, from Yuna, to Mao, to Rochette, and even the Americans (having to live up to a former dynasty etc.) there's so much to work with there that I think it'd make a great film.
 
Vagabond said:
You will be glad to know that I am working on a screenplay entitled "Tracings: The Beatrix Scuba Story." It focuses on her disappointment at the 1968 Olympics, her decision to concentrate on figures, and her victory in Sapporo. Roughly 80% of the running time will be dedicated to showing her practicing figure eights. ;)
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Yeah sure @Vagabond. :p Apparently, you have a different view of what figure skating is all about than I do. ;) I've discussed this before. The essence is about the joy and the journey; about the feeling that the freedom of flight on the ice gives to the skaters, and about the priceless memorable moments the skaters give to fans when magic happens.

BTW, although I was not specifically addressing figures in my earlier comments, can you please try to not gratuitously make fun of figures, albeit tongue-in-cheek? I have no problems with you making fun of my sincere and passionate posts. But ain't it enough already that the foundation of how the sport started is so misunderstood, so disregarded and treated as barely an afterthought! :duh: This, even despite the phenomenal SS talent of Patrick Chan being known to be largely based on his diligent practicing of figures as a young skater. :wall:
 
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Here's The Guardian's review of I, Tonya:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/sep/09/i-tonya-review-margot-robbie-toronto-film-festival-tiff

As for skating movies, there's a Sonja Henie biopic currently in the works, as well as Ice: The Movie which is a fictional story about two female skaters who start out as childhood friends. (I don't know what happens after that because the movie isn't out yet, but I know young up-and-comer Elise Freezer plays the childhood version of one of the main characters).

And if any filmmakers or aspiring filmmakers want to make a movie version of my novel, feel free to contact me. :glamor:
 
^^ Seemingly movies about figure skating have become all the rage. As IN recently profiled, there's also a graphic memoir just published about a young synchro skater.

algonquin said:
Back to the movie, here is a review from the Toronto Star. For fans of Janney...


https://www.thestar.com/entertainme...ry-90s-scandal-a-vivid-moment-now-govani.html
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Hmmm, for the most part the review or at least partly the way it's written is breathless, Hollywood next-generation looking-back-at-the-nineties (but misunderstanding the decade by a mile) bs. As I said before, I'm sure the movie is well produced, well-acted and deals with the subject as responsibly as possible. I'm just feeling a disconnect for a number of reasons, probably due to my age and experiences in life. I understand that the actors had to Google the story to understand what it was about in the first place. But what about the Tonya documentary? Did any of the production staff, the director and the cast view that to help inform their understanding? Or were they even aware of its existence?

If the current youth generation can't remember the 1990s too well, I am feeling a bit melancholy about more in-depth and informative historical skating stories being told. Hopefully some of us older fans, skaters and coaches won't die out completely before excavation of what happened during the 1940s, the golden age for U.S. 1950s, Sabena tragedy and aftermath of the 1960s, the 1970s, and the cheesy 1980s decade when the quad began to be landed, can somehow be mined, at least to some degree. :COP:

One thing I noted right away in the review that's unfortunate and inaccurate: Nancy Kerrigan was far from a Ms. "goody-two-shoes ice princess"! :duh: That seriously was not/ is not her personality, nor any part of her Boston working-class upbringing. In fact, there are tragedies she suffered and had to overcome as well in her life, aside from the whacking! Her brother's illness, her mother's blindness, and later after marriage her battle with miscarriages, and more recently her father's tragic death. No matter the mythologies and false traditions the elitist sport adheres to regarding 'ice princesses,' that is no way who Kerrigan was; neither was that who Kristi Yamaguchi was (Kristi and her family had their own history of prejudice in this country to overcome). :rolleyes: It looks to me like the movie misses the nuances, and likely fails to understand any of the complexities and politics of the sport. It also remains to be seen whether they got right the negative role that the media played in all of this.

It's the media after all, with the sport's full blessing that has always carried on with the 'ice princess' theme. There was the gushing over how Kerrigan resembled Katherine Hepburn. I know that kind of breezy hype is irresistible. As a matter of fact, it's partly what happened to Gracie, with the 'Princess Grace looks' comments by some broadcasters. I don't blame Kerrigan for consciously or unconsciously taking advantage of any favorable attention in how she was being portrayed by the media. It's part of the sport, it's part of our culture in general, and it still exists. Again, the problem is if the movie buys into it and doesn't understand the nuances, complexities and true distinctions.

The 'ice princess' theme is played out but sadly it still exists. That's one reason why I root for the badass swag of Ashley Wagner, and the unconventional power and passion of Gabby Daleman!
 
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I also wonder if they'll just focus on the discriminating attitudes she had to face from a young age to her lifetime ban by the US figure skating elite as the reason why she was prevented from achieving more rather than look at everything including Tonya's own lifestyle choices like smoking with asthma, habits, stubbornness to take criticism and coaching, entitlement issues, ungratefulness at times, etc. and how it all may have been caused by and/or influenced by her abusive upbringing and the skating world not understanding the best way to truly and positively communicate with an "outsider" and support, embrace, and foster their talent. If they just make it about snotty skating officials, then it won't help the movie audience understand this sport as a sport at all.
 
Jarrett said:
I, Tonya Can’t Wait :fan:
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:lol: Sure you can, and you will have to cool your jets until the movie lands in your neck of the woods, which shouldn't take that long, eh. Or else try to get an advance poor quality version via Kodi online.

With all the skating movies coming out, U.S. fed, if they had any marketing sense and leadership vision, could try to tie in a skating film festival event with a skating exhibition fundraiser and/or competition.

Another thought comes to mind. I recall when Dance Theatre of Harlem began, they offered local audiences in their community introductory tutorials on what ballet was all about, with Arthur Mitchell and other instructors discussing the terminology and various moves with the assistance of young dancers from the company. Those programs were always entertaining and informative, and they provided invaluable information for audiences new to ballet (which helped build interest and following in the Harlem community and beyond). Hint, Hint ...
 
Vagabond said:
You will be glad to know that I am working on a screenplay entitled "Tracings: The Beatrix Scuba Story." It focuses on her disappointment at the 1968 Olympics, her decision to concentrate on figures, and her victory in Sapporo. Roughly 80% of the running time will be dedicated to showing her practicing figure eights. ;)
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:rofl:

I hope the movie includes a detailed breakdown of how they accumulated points back then, I've always found that particularly fascinating. :p

Jarrett said:
I, Tonya Can’t Wait :fan:
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Same. I think some of us may be overthinking this a little bit: Tonya/Nancy was a major pop culture watershed moment with TV ratings equal to the Super Bowl. All this other stuff was not.

aftershocks said:
Yeah sure @Vagabond. :p Apparently, you have a different view of what figure skating is all about than I do. ;) I've discussed this before. The essence is about the joy and the journey; about the feeling that the freedom of flight on the ice gives to the skaters, and about the priceless memorable moments the skaters give to fans when magic happens.
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That's all well and good and inspiring etc. but not viable for a film, much less a Hollywood film expected to make a profit.

BTW, although I was not specifically addressing figures in my earlier comments, can you please try to not gratuitously make fun of figures, albeit tongue-in-cheek? I have no problems with you making fun of my sincere and passionate posts. But ain't it enough already that the foundation of how the sport started is so misunderstood, so disregarded and treated as barely an afterthought! :duh: This, even despite the phenomenal SS talent of Patrick Chan being known to be largely based on his diligent practicing of figures as a young skater. :wall:
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We've made it from I, Tonya to Patrick Chan's skating skills in 20 posts! A new FSU record! :p
 
^^ Yep sure @alchemy void, I completely understand what you're saying. I've got no argument at all with your take. I never suggested that the movie I, Tonya needs to express the 'essence' of what figure skating is about. I simply pointed out the complexities and nuances of Tonya's story that might be missed, which does not mean the movie should not be welcomed with great glee and anticipation by skating fans.

I'm not sure how old you are, but I lived through all of it as a huge fan of figure skating well before, during and after the 1990s. The media circus surrounding the 1994 incident definitely obscured Tonya's side of the story at the time. Actually, there are no true villains in the story, aside from Tonya's Mom and Gillooly perhaps. It's just that everyone involved should take responsibility for their actions, motivations and behavior. I definitely feel that the figure skating community unfortunately dropped the ball in more ways than one at that time, especially in not figuring out how to take effective and beneficial advantage of the increased interest in the sport that the infamous incident provided.

Definitely, Hollywood is not going to make a movie about the joys of figure skating. And again, that's not even close to anything I was trying to express. When a movie is made, there has to be a compelling story, and there has to be entertainment value in order for tickets to be sold. The joy of figure skating obviously is just a feeling and an emotion, not the larger story, and not the challenges, nor the nitty-gritty of life that we all have to face, and don't always live up to with flying colors.

Heck, no problema with everyone avidly looking forward to the surface camp, belly-inducing laughter, and the fun of seeing something about figure skating in living color on the big screen (despite the inevitable inaccuracies and false generalizations).

Have a blast watching the movie! There's certainly no problem with enjoying the lighter side and the surface camp of movies about figure skating. The appeal of the Tonya/Nancy story after all completely transcends figure skating, and that's why it's still so compelling and has crossed over into pop culture. Meanwhile, it's business as usual and an uphill battle that will likely never be won for the truth, OTT drama, politics and scoring complexities involved in actual figure skating to ever be understood. I'm coming to this from a different standpoint than you obviously. I get the fun standpoint approach of figure skating fandom :watch:, which is part of what #Team Trainwreck is about too.

I would disagree with you if you feel that a compelling story about figure skating in all of its complexities can not be told with some attention to nuance and accuracy. I am not yet saying that these filmmakers haven't been able to at least partly achieve that with this film (despite the inevitable limitations involved in the length, format and approach). Creative and editorial choices always have to be made that are not going to match what actually happened detail for detail, when a true story is dramatized.
 
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Vagabond said:
You will be glad to know that I am working on a screenplay entitled "Tracings: The Beatrix Scuba Story." It focuses on her disappointment at the 1968 Olympics, her decision to concentrate on figures, and her victory in Sapporo. Roughly 80% of the running time will be dedicated to showing her practicing figure eights. ;)
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The other 20% will be dedicated to how AquaNet helped to create that fabulous Carol Brady up-do.
 
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