Harry and Meghan wedding chat- the build up!

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skatesindreams

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Whatever the nature of the "arrangement"; I'm sure that something similar will be "given"/done for Harry.
He's a Prince of the Realm; and Son of the Heir.

I doubt that HMQ, or Charles, would want him to be "slighted" in any way.
 

cygnus

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The tax implications would be astounding! Can you imagine the gift tax she would have to pay on a tiara. Or the land that went with a Dukedom (or whatever that is called)

Apart from the Duchy of Cornwall- which belongs to the Prince of Wales-and has substantial property involved, no new Dukedom which may be given to Harry would have any land or property attached to the title- it's just a title.
 

El Rey

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I think Meghan would be hard pressed to NOT give up here US Citizenship. I would think it would be considered unseemly.

Why? I know Meghan isn’t of noble blood, but it’s been standard practice for royals to marry royals from other countries because of link they provided to that country. Aren’t the Windsors mostly German?
 

Spareoom

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Giving up one's citizenship is not something that you would do lightly...you never know what the future holds. I was thinking if, down the line, she and Harry decided to get divorced, and they had kids, her no longer having US citizenship could complicate matters if she wanted to go back to the US. Right? A slight chance, but still, something to consider.
 

Parsley Sage

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If they divorce, does she get half of the dukedom?

It's just a title. There is no land attached to it. If they divorced, she would lose the HRH but would still be Meghan, Duchess of Whatever Title Harry Receives on their Wedding Day.
 
D

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They don't like it, but there are US-born Americans who have dual citizenship. Our own @Louis and @allezfred are examples

Yes, citizenship laws vary from country to country. At the time of my birth, two countries (US and Italy) had laws automatically giving me citizenship. I acquired U.S. citizenship jus solis, and Italian citizenship jus sanguinis. I had to go through a process of having the Italian citizenship formally recognized, but I always had it.

If I stay in the UK long enough, I can also acquire British citizenship while keeping the other two. A few of my colleagues have three citizenships, and one has children who were born with four citizenships and hold four passports.

The U.S. does not encourage dual citizenship, but there is no law against it, and fairly minimal downsides to it. The U.S. cannot generally help you if you are in trouble with your other country, or somewhere else in the world where you have used non-U.S. passport, and you may not be able to hold top-secret positions in the government or certain very high offices in the military. But that's about it....

Keep in mind that the U.S. does not "recognize" dual citizenship, even if it is allowed. When we are in the U.S., we are U.S. citizens only in the government's eyes, and we must enter the country on a U.S. passport (it's a criminal offense not to.) The same is true for many other countries, including Italy. When I am in Italy, or (I believe) anywhere in the European Union, I am recognized as Italian-only and must use the Italian passport, even if the non-EU queue is shorter.

Not all countries permit dual citizenship, however; it's difficult and sometimes impossible in many European countries, which is one of the many challenges for EU nationals dealing with Brexit.

Meghan will have investment income which will need to be declared somewhere. Not that it is any of our business of course, but this marriage will be more complicated in the details than previous royal marriages.

In a normal situation, she would remain U.S. domiciled, giving her flexibility to not pay UK tax on investment income earned in the U.S. (I don't), but this is not a normal situation.... The UK has a number of loopholes for expats, some of which are so generous (overseas workday relief) that I don't claim them because they seem morally wrong.

So, I am thinking US Taxes would require Meghan to declare and pay taxes on the "gift"

U.S. will always find a way to tax you. Boris Johnson renounced his U.S. citizenship after the IRS came after him for capital gains tax on the sale of his property in London (reportedly).

I think Meghan would be hard pressed to NOT give up here US Citizenship. I would think it would be considered unseemly.

It's not easy to do, and it comes with a big price tag: you pay taxes on all of your assets as if you sold them the day you renounced. She would also need a second citizenship before she renounces, if she doesn't already have one. Maybe the royals can grant her permanent citizenship overnight, but that normally takes time.
 

aftershocks

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Regarding the citizenship issue, Meghan is in Britain on a 6-month fiancee visa. After her wedding next May, she will apply for British citizenship. Most likely, once she becomes a British citizen, which could take several years, I would expect her to eventually relinquish her U.S. citizenship. Her children will be able to choose between British or U.S. citizenship when they reach 21 years of age. I would think that many of these issues have already been discussed and worked out well in advance by Prince Harry, his mentor and royal advisers, by members of the Queen's and Prince Charles' staffs, by British authorities, and of course, by Meghan.


In an earlier post in this thread, I had mentioned that perhaps the designer Misha Nonoo was the matchmaker who brought Meghan and Prince Harry together. But there have been recent media reports speculating that Violet von Westenholt might be the matchmaker (her father is friendly with Prince Charles). Apparently, von Westenholt met Meghan at some point in connection with a Ralph Lauren work project. Since their fathers were friends, von Westenholt grew up knowing Harry and William.

There are pictures of Meghan with von Westenholt taken at Wimbledon in 2016. Meghan was there as Serena Williams' guest, but Meghan also spent a lot of time sitting in the royal box. At that point, Meghan was little known and thus fairly unrecognizable. She was able to move around very comfortably as an under the radar actor on a cable television series that not everyone was familiar with. Early July 2016 during Wimbledon is the period of time when Meghan and Harry hooked up twice, apparently at Soho House in London, as set-up by the mysterious matchmaker. Their initial 'twice is nice' meet-ups were apparently faciliated by Meghan's close friend and Harry's acquaintance, Markus Anderson, a top honcho at Soho House. Anderson is also the bearded gentleman who sat next to Meghan in the audience during the opening night ceremony of the Invictus Games in September, in Toronto.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/25/10/44B17C0600000578-4916724-image-a-1_1506330601541.jpg
https://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/markus-andersonm-meghan-markle-ftr.jpg?w=620

When Ms. von Westenholt was recently queried by reporters, she demurred from acknowledging her possible role in bringing Meghan and Harry together, but she also did not deny being involved. ;)
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/29/who-i...oduce-prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-7119323/
http://www.instyle.com/news/prince-harry-meghan-markle-who-set-them-up
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/11/prince-harry-meghan-markle-matchmaker-misha-nonoo
 

PDilemma

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This thread...

Oh, no! Someone might have to pay taxes! Tragedy!!

I think however they work out her citizenship and her assets, they probably won't go hungry if they have to pay some taxes to the U.S.

As for tiaras, royal jewelry is typically only gifted as a loan of sorts and reverts to the Crown on the recipient's death. And as far as we know, Kate has not been "gifted" any tiaras, but is using them as actual loans from the Queen. It is likely, then, that Meghan will also only use them on loan. So she will not be paying gift taxes on tiaras. You can all rest easy about that potential tax bill.
 

Vagabond

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Maybe they'll all end up living in the U.S. so that she can have more career opportunities and the children will be more shielded from the paparazzi and brought up in a multicultural society. :sneaky:
 

PDilemma

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Maybe they'll all end up living in the U.S. so that she can have more career opportunities and the children will be more shielded from the paparazzi and brought up in a multicultural society. :sneaky:

She was quite clear in their engagement interview that she is giving up her acting career.
 

Winnipeg

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Maybe they'll all end up living in the U.S. so that she can have more career opportunities and the children will be more shielded from the paparazzi and brought up in a multicultural society. :sneaky:

But they will bring multi cultural to the UK given their maternal gene side, right? They will be mulatto?
 

skatesindreams

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"Mulatto" "Quadroon" "Octaroon" also usually indicated a precise percentage of ethnicity.
I'm not sure they would apply, here.

I just use mixed heritage/ethnicity.
 
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MsZem

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What is the correct term now? Mixed race?
Markle is biracial, and the same will be true for their future children.

Maybe they'll all end up living in the U.S. so that she can have more career opportunities and the children will be more shielded from the paparazzi and brought up in a multicultural society. :sneaky:
You do realize that London is a very multicultural city, right?
 

aftershocks

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Hmmm, those antiquated Louisiana/ southern terms used to describe how many drops of African or black blood is in a person are ridiculous manmade labels that make absolutely no sense, and are actually offensive but are often still bandied about in retro, and/or tongue-in-cheek fashion. Many years ago, Meghan would probably have been considered not so much 'tragic mulatto,' as more perhaps 'conflicted quadroon.' :drama: She perhaps also could have taken the step to pass for white, as many fair-skinned 'colored, Negro, African-American' persons (take your pick) did way back-in-the-day most often for economic reasons, and/or simply for the ability to live in a nice neighborhood or get a decent job for which they were often well-educated to perform but were most often refused to even apply for, etc.
Interesting reading:
One Drop: My Father's Hidden Life - A Story of Race & Family, by Bliss Broyard
A Chosen Exile: A History of Racial Passing in America, by Allyson Hobbs
Life on the Color Line: The True Story of a White Boy Who Discovered he was Black, by Gregory Howard Williams
Secret Daughter: A Mixed-Race Daughter and the Mother Who Gave Her Away, by June Cross
White Like Her: My Family's Story of Race and Racial Passing, by Gail Lukasik & Kenyatta Berry

Heads-up: There actually is no such thing as different races. There's only one race: the human race, and only four blood types among humans. Take some courses in human biology and understanding genes and recent findings in DNA technology. There are different ethnic groups, but racial distinctions originate from false beliefs built upon a manmade "social concept, not a scientific one":
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/22/science/do-races-differ-not-really-genes-show.html
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC212702/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171012143324.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color
https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg22129560-800-the-eyes-have-it/

I recognize that in today's mixed-up world we still must talk in false, nonsensical 'racial' terminology because it's necessary to keep people divided and thinking a portion of the population is somehow better than another portion purely because of variation in skin tone! Apparently, the coded and loaded 'racial' terms continue to carry 'mixed' and confused meanings mainly because of the unfortunate historical and psychological impacts of slavery in the western world...

When Harry met Meghan, there was an instantaneous attraction and love bloomed. It's a love story, and good luck to them. Certainly, they are lucky and blessed to have come together in this time rather than several decades ago when a royal in line to the British throne marrying a divorcee (American or not) would have been a no-no. Forget about a so-called 'bi-racial' divorced American. And in any case, if we go back far enough, Meg and Harry are not only distantly related, but even before we reach their 15th-century mutual ancestor, there was reportedly during the 1700s, a Queen of England (directly related to the current British royal family) who had African ancestors on her maternal side via Portuguese-African intermixture. And there are currently and historically other ladies of African heritage who married into European royalty:
http://www.refinery29.com/2017/11/182878/black-queen-charlotte-meghan-markle-biracial-royal-family
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...irst-mixed-race-royal/?utm_term=.46f6c48bf2cd
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/royalfamily.html
"... at the time of Queen Elizabeth II's coronation, the Royal Household published an apologia referencing both her Asian and African bloodlines in defence of her position as head of the Commonwealth."
http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/hanover_14.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/black-princess-meghan-markle.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6oxp7uM_HA Princess Angela & Prince Max of Liechtenstein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIGmLNCb8iQ Liechtenstein royals in Panama
http://worldofaerin.aerin.com/article/panama-guide Q&A with Princess Angela (re Panama travel tips)

More on Meghan:
http://www.elleuk.com/life-and-culture/news/a26855/more-than-an-other/ an article by Meghan re her identity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBGr8CwwXFQ family photos of young Meghan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfaGleA4qYo Young Meghan changes a soap commercial script
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIMasLgjWww Meghan Markle on how her style evolved with her role on Suits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtl9mnEoZUY Meghan Markle interviewed by Larry King
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qjb30DzbEM Harry & Meghan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fpn19P0z8 11 American women who stole the hearts of royals
 

Vash01

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and apparently will marry next Spring. I hope the lucky lady knows what she's in for --- not a moment's peace for the rest of her life.

Who has peace? At least she will have money, name and fame. She will be in history books and on magazine covers. She won't have to worry about retirement or healthcare or feeding her family.

May be I sound mean but I have difficulty feeling sorry for people who have it all. I don't envy their good luck but feeling sorry for being lucky? No way.

Peace and happiness is something that they do have control over because they only have to control their minds.
 

aftershocks

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"Mulatto" "Quadroon" "Octaroon" also usually indicated a precise percentage of ethnicity.
I'm not sure they would apply, here. I just use mixed heritage/ethnicity.

None of these terms are precise or necessarily accurate, particularly the former. The 'mulatto, quadroon, and octoroon,' terms were just the prejudiced southern way of ridiculously, pretentiously and condescendingly attempting to label offspring of 'black'/'white' people, which is obviously an offensive practice. Again, it was simply a method used to separate and divide people, and to keep a portion of the population subjugated. I prefer using 'ethnic background,' rather than 'mixed' because in fact, we are all 'mixed,' (right @Vagabond ;)) despite the term being erroneously used mostly to describe the offspring of 'black'/'white' unions. Actually, the terms 'black' and 'white' are presumptuous as well. And 'precise percentage of ethnicity' is inapropos to cite in connection with prejudicial 18th and 19th century southern labeling practices. It's akin to the writers in the late 1800s who studied human skulls and created lies and fictions about the intelligence of people who were enslaved. Again that was another method of subjugation and an effort to pretend that the dominating/domineering group was superior, which some people unfortunately, yet unsurprisingly still believe to this day. It's hard giving up a faux claim to superiority.

It may sometimes be hard to remember, but there's only the human race. And there are only 4 blood types among humans, which are not based upon family origins. This fact, along with the knowledge uncovered via DNA technology tells us that random human individuals can be more similar to each other than they are to their respective ethnic population groups: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/ I do hope some people will take the opportunity to at least peruse a few of the books I listed earlier, or not as everyone pleases. :)

@aftershocks I am pretty sure that we all have African ancestry. ;)

Aha, as I've previously posted, that fact is pretty clear @Vagabond, despite being so hard for some people to swallow and to fully understand. :p Is it becoming a thing these days, ya think? Do you know your exact percentages of African blood? :lol: Interestingly enough, Troian Bellisario's mother, Deborah Pratt, is a fair-skinned African American (Louisiana Creole, which includes French, African, other European, perhaps some Native American), and her father is part Persian and part Italian. Troian identifies as 'white' period. Looking at her, most people wouldn't hesitate to think that she's simply Italian/ Caucasian, eh!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-NQfQ4ad70 Celebrities who have a parent with African ancestry

Today, everyone can do a DNA test to determine rough percentages of their tribal ethnicities, which for some may not lead directly back to Africa necessarily re immediate ancestry. But the fact still remains that our ancient human forefathers and foremothers originated in Africa and dispersed over time throughout the world. In the very ancient beginnings, the migration to other climates led to changes in skin pigmentation and physical characteristics. Wow, 400 years of 'racial prejudice' based mainly on skin color differences that occurred due to variant physical environments (climate, weather, geological conditions) and resultant genetic mutations that favored survival. Ancient humans, remember, were more exposed to the elements. They did not live in the type of dwellings that dot the human landscape of today. In addition, tribal groups across the African continent have always looked different from each other physically. It's rather weird and ironic that melanin is an important, beneficial substance, while those who possess it in substantial quantities have in recent centuries been so reviled and discriminated against. :duh:
 
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Vagabond

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Aha, as I've previously posted, that fact is pretty clear @Vagabond, despite being so hard for some people to swallow and to fully understand. :p Is it becoming a thing these days, ya think? Do you know your exact percentages of African blood? :lol:.

I strongly suspect that I have 100% African ancestry, but one might have to go back a few millenia to find my most recent ancestor who lived in Africa. ;)

Scatterlings of Africa

On the road to Phelamanga
Where the world began
I love the scatterlings of Africa
Each and every one
In their hearts a burning hunger
Beneath the copper sun
Ancient bones from Olduvai
Echoes of the very first cry
"Who made me here and why
Beneath the copper sun?"
 
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