"Harley & Katya" documentary

Yyzskater

Active Member
Messages
91
yes, I just didn’t read anything about prostitution or an exchange for sex when I read that the first time or the second time. If anything, I thought maybe he was implying she had a life more of privilege than he did. But nothing about prostitution or sex.
I think it would have been way more offensive if he implied that funding her training was the reason she was with her coach. The fact that she may or may not have gotten a reduction in her coaching fees is irrevelant because it's all speculation anyway.
 

Ananas Astra

Get woke, go broke!
Messages
14,800
His exact quote was, “How exactly did you pay for everything, besides being in a relationship with your coach?”

He basically accused her funding her training costs through her relationship with her coach and questioned how she could have paid for everything besides entering into that relationship as if she couldn’t find ways to fund it the way other Canadian skaters training in Canada have managed to fund their training, despite the high costs of training and living in a Canada, and not all of them are related to somebody.

I’m actually sympathetic to Windsor as he is an Australian skater hoping to represent Korea with his Korean partner while training in Canada, and, thus, would not have had the same funding opportunities as a Canadian would have had, especially Duhamel being a consistent medalist at senior international competitions for years who won two World Championships and two Olympic medals.

I agree that her comment was biting and uncalled for in that why would she question his morality by making it seem like he was duping donors and taking their money and running away with it, unless she was a donor and actually concerned that the money that was earmarked for training would now just go to his personal account. However, I very doubt that was the case because she would have otherwise tried to contact him privately. She did what she did to try to publicly shame him when he’s clearly already down and the center of public scrutiny and added fuel to that fire.

However, that doesn’t excuse what he said, his blatant meaning behind what he said, and why said what he said.
Let's play a mind game here: Imagine someone like...say...Tatiana Totmianina (who was dating her coach Vasiliev back in the days), or whichever lady Morozov used to shag/marry/whatever had commented the way Meagan did and Harley had reacted the same way.
I bet most of you would have been like: "WELL DONE, BOY! SHOW HER!"

Stop being so self-righteous and "morally superior", everyone!
 

airgelaal

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,016
Let's play a mind game here: Imagine someone like...say...Tatiana Totmianina (who was dating her coach Vasiliev back in the days), or whichever lady Morozov used to shag/marry/whatever had commented the way Meagan did and Harley had reacted the same way.
I bet most of you would have been like: "WELL DONE, BOY! SHOW HER!"

Stop being so self-righteous and "morally superior", everyone!
You should have said this to yourself before writing everything written above.
 

Wyliefan

Ubering juniors against my will
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43,480
Let's play a mind game here: Imagine someone like...say...Tatiana Totmianina (who was dating her coach Vasiliev back in the days), or whichever lady Morozov used to shag/marry/whatever had commented the way Meagan did and Harley had reacted the same way.
I bet most of you would have been like: "WELL DONE, BOY! SHOW HER!"
No, I don't think we would. Why would we?
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,017
Let's play a mind game here: Imagine someone like...say...Tatiana Totmianina (who was dating her coach Vasiliev back in the days), or whichever lady Morozov used to shag/marry/whatever had commented the way Meagan did and Harley had reacted the same way.
I bet most of you would have been like: "WELL DONE, BOY! SHOW HER!"

Stop being so self-righteous and "morally superior", everyone!
This isn’t much of a “mind game” to play. But I do see we have now delved into the deepest pockets of desperation and are now using our imagination to back up arguments we’ve proffered. It’s easy to accuse others of doing something hypocritical in a hypothetical to add support for a weak argument, especially when directing those accusations of hypocrisy against those who you do not know personally. We can all turn this around and do it to you too. Maybe you believe what you say to it be true, which probably comes from the fact that you’d be denouncing Windsor had the above scenario happened. See?

Sometimes when we’re too busy playing tribal wars and slinging copy and pasted petty political phrases towards others, like “virtue signaling” (and you didn’t mean Meagan had signaled Tessa Virtue or her sister to join the conversation), we stop seeing what the entire point was.

Btw, you’ve moved on from attacking Duhamel to now attacking the rest of us, but haven’t done anything to refute the fact that Windsor’s comment was abhorrent.
 

Ananas Astra

Get woke, go broke!
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14,800
No, I don't think we would. Why would we?
Oh please...how many times did people say "Skater X was only getting those results because she was shagging coach Y" or "Skater A only got so far because their significant other was in this or that position"?

Knowing Duhamel's behavior on social media and having heard about her behavior from other trustworthy sources I just believe that Harley had had enough of her "moral superiority" and sticking her nose into everyone's business and just lashed out at her and I don't blame him.
Sometimes even someone like Duhamel has to be put in her place.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
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41,017
Oh please...how many times did people say "Skater X was only getting those results because she was shagging coach Y" or "Skater A only got so far because their significant other was in this or that position"?

How many times did this happen here and who said such things?

I just believe that Harley had had enough of her "moral superiority" and sticking her nose into everyone's business and just lashed out at her and I don't blame him.
Sometimes even someone like Duhamel has to be put in her place.
Well, at least with the underlined part, you’ve acknowledged the nature of what he said. With the bolded part, I think you’re revealing why you’re supporting Harley’s response so much and it has nothing to do with the actual exchange of words between them.

No wonder you’ve accused the rest of us of being hypocritical when your entire presence in this discussion is to just push an anti-Duhamel agenda and using this exchange with Windsor as a post-hoc justification for it.
 
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susieB129

Well-Known Member
Messages
377
Sorry, but anyone trying to position Harley’s comment as anything other than insinuating she paid for her coaching on her back is being willfully ignorant. Y’all are not unintelligent people. His meaning is crystal clear.

I won’t defend her either — when you have a choice to say NOTHING, you take it. But he’s way out of line here.
 

Hedwig

Antique member
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22,537
Sorry, but anyone trying to position Harley’s comment as anything other than insinuating she paid for her coaching on her back is being willfully ignorant. Y’all are not unintelligent people. His meaning is crystal clear.

I won’t defend her either — when you have a choice to say NOTHING, you take it. But he’s way out of line here.
In fact, the fact that people now talk more about Duhamel then the abhorrent things that Windsor said is showing how misogynistic a lot of people are and how they don't even recognize how quickly they put women and the things they say down.
I know this is another made-up scenario but I bet that comments like this would not get the same heat if they were uttered by a guy. It is a sad fact that women all too often encounter. We are called bitchy and hysteric and what-not for things that are just brushed of if men say them.
I am so fed up with this.
 

coppertop1

Well-Known Member
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1,949
In fact, the fact that people now talk more about Duhamel then the abhorrent things that Windsor said is showing how misogynistic a lot of people are and how they don't even recognize how quickly they put women and the things they say down.
I know this is another made-up scenario but I bet that comments like this would not get the same heat if they were uttered by a guy. It is a sad fact that women all too often encounter. We are called bitchy and hysteric and what-not for things that are just brushed of if men say them.
I am so fed up with this.
Preach it! People defended His Ilia Malinin's homophobic comments, Grassl going to Eteri because "their brains are developing" yet skaters like Duhamel and Wagner are slammed for speaking their minds. It's such BS.
 

On My Own

Worktotaler
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4,976
There's been ample criticism for both Grassl and Malinin, lol.

People could just go back to criticizing Windsor and ignore the 3(?) people who said anything about Duhamel, at this point.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
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2,584
Whenever someone says they're going to drop some big truth bombs on social media, they never actually drop said truth bombs. Whether that's because the initial backlash is usually strong (people who announce truth bombs this way don't tend to be sympathetic) or because someone close to them remains to be seen.

In Harley's case, maybe he does have some good and valid truths to drop - things about cost or visa issues or problems finding a steady training situation that worked for him/his partners. But no matter how valid those truth bombs are, I would expect him to present them in the worst possible light. Maybe blatant misogyny, maybe subtle, maybe criticizing everyone but himself, who knows. But it won't so what he thinks it will.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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57,742
Preach it! People defended His Ilia Malinin's homophobic comments, Grassl going to Eteri because "their brains are developing" yet skaters like Duhamel and Wagner are slammed for speaking their minds. It's such BS.
:rolleyes:

First of all, plenty of people criticized Malinin. Who then apologized (which neither Meghan nor Harley has done). Grassi got slammed for going to Eteri by the majority. Finally, Duhamel is getting mild criticism here for commenting on something that wasn't really her business along with plenty of defenders.

So false equivalences all around.

Or we can call out misogynistic shit be it from Harley or from other people. Like we want 👩🏻‍🌾
And recognize that it isn't always the same people saying the same things about different people.

Btw, some of us are still uncomfortable with the power dynamics around Meghan and Bruno dating so our interpretation of Harley's comment is colored by that.
 

On My Own

Worktotaler
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4,976
And recognize that it isn't always the same people saying the same things about different people.
I know, right? Imagine me saying anything remotely positive about Grassl, caring one bit one way or the other about Duhamel, and deluding myself into believing Ashley Wagner was anything more than a moron who couldn't, in fact, skate. Not even Michelle Kwan could bring this level of artistic imagination to life. But noooooooooooo.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
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41,017
Btw, some of us are still uncomfortable with the power dynamics around Meghan and Bruno dating so our interpretation of Harley's comment is colored by that.

To accept that interpretation of his comment, we'd have to accept he made that comment solely for expressing that discomfort. But for that to be true, then why would he shoot a derisive comment expressing his discomfort with her relationship with Bruno Marcotte at Meagan, who would be a victim in the scenario where her relationship with Bruno was abusive or exploitative?

It's like if I had gotten into a fight with somebody (who may have started the argument), who I honestly believed was groomed to be in and is still in an incredibly abusive/exploitative situation, and chose to retort to whatever immature or offensive comment that person made by mocking her for being in her current situation, and saying that I and many other people/skaters couldn't be so lucky to fall into her situation for us to benefit from it financially.
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
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20,622
Oh please...how many times did people say "Skater A only got so far because their significant other was in this or that position"?
I mean you could re-phrase it into `Zuerlin only became such a successful coach at such a young age because he retired very early because of his relationship' but, well...
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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57,742
To accept that interpretation of his comment, we'd have to accept he made that comment solely for expressing that discomfort. But for that to be true, then why would he shoot a derisive comment expressing his discomfort with her relationship with Bruno Marcotte at Meagan, who would be a victim in the scenario where her relationship with Bruno was abusive or exploitative?
Because he's a dick who blames the victim? Because he doesn't see it that way? I'm not a mind reader. If any of us were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But I am uncomfortable with it and so saw Harley's post as calling her out on how her relationship benefited her. i.e., nepotism and not about selling her body for money. If he had said something about sleeping her way to the top (a common accusation towards successful women), I would not have interpreted it that way. He didn't mention sex at all. He called out the relationship as a whole.

P.S. to @On My Own: Ashley Wagner is a decent skater with above-average results. Saying she "can't skate" is dumb. 🤷
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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35,356
Nepotism is when a family member benefits directly or indirectly from the decisions of another family member, and gets opportunities that ordinarily would have also been available to others. Like a CEO choosing their son or daughter to take over the company when there are more qualified candidates that aren't their relatives.

I don't see any evidence here that Bruno (allegedly) deciding to charge Meagan less for coaching had a negative impact on any of the other skaters he coached. If some people find their relationship troubling, so be it, but nepotism is not the word to describe this.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

Well-Known Member
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6,277
Nepotism is when a family member benefits directly or indirectly from the decisions of another family member, and gets opportunities that ordinarily would have also been available to others. Like a CEO choosing their son or daughter to take over the company when there are more qualified candidates that aren't their relatives.
One former company I worked for hired their adult children to be in charge of Human Resources, which IMO, is a massive conflict of interest. Needless to say, employees never stayed for very long.
 

ice crystal

Active Member
Messages
88
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but wasn't the GoFundMe launched following closely the release of Harley & Katya? I thought the timing rather unfortunate - it came across as possibly trying to cash in. Korean fans contributed substantially. And only then he realises he doesn't like Canada and it isn't cheap to live there? Some might remember he trained in Canada under Gauthier before..... I wouldn't blame Meghan for raising it - she isn't the only person to have questions on her mind.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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6,277
Canada is tough going even as a tourist. Whenever I attended skating events there, the outside temperatures rarely got about zero. It was always freezing, slippery and wet.
 

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