Gymnastic news #22 - Tokyo or bust

[FiveRinger]

So the answer is that there is no strategy. They just took the top 4. Thank god the US women don’t need strategy, I guess, because otherwise we’d be in trouble.

https://twitter.com/InsideGym/status/1409351712582815747

The question wasn’t who could replace MyKayla. It was could MyKayla replace an injured team of 4 athlete.

Also swapping around people who won’t get individual medals is so far from on par with GB leaving off their possible uneven bars gold medalist, it’s not funny. This decision was kinda weird, but no one got massively robbed. They took the better all arounder instead of the person who is better on two events for the team which is a difference of like .5. And they left off someone who could make a final for someone who won’t. I think they made the wrong choice of specialist and it’s frustrating, but it’s nothing like Becky.

Yeah, people are tweeting about the press conference that Tom said he wanted to, "let the athletes choose themselves." WTF are they paying him for, then?

 

[skatfan]

Tom picking the top 5 all arounders for the 5 spots - 4 team and the +1 - is so on brand that it is hard to be mad.

 

[canbelto]

Well I don't think MyKayla has good bars but I don't mind her in beam, floor and vault.

 

[Carolla5501]

I like Johnny’s outfits much more than Nastia’s.

Well it’s not like either one of their going to win a contest unless you’re hoping to win “trashy dresser of the year”. But she’s so pretty dead this is just sad she could be gorgeous with a good stylist

Again, she's grown and changed a lot in five years. See my earlier post. She was co-winner of the sportsmanship award at nationals, voted on by the competitors. As I said before, I've never been a fan of her gymnastics, but I think it's important to acknowledge people who grow and change.

Apparently you haven’t been paying attention here. The rules of figure skating apparently apply here also. Once your decision is made nothing the athlete does can ever change your opinion. (LOL). How you acted at age 12. will determine your life long opinion of them and nothing they do will change that. (Same thing is obviously true in gymnastics)

Yeah, people are tweeting about the press conference that Tom said he wanted to, "let the athletes choose themselves." WTF are they paying him for, then?

So what you think we should’ve done s decided two weeks ago because there’s no need for trials to let the gymnasts prove their abilities. Really?

spoken as a true figure skating fan . Never let what the athletes deliver impact the decisions.

Actually I found this statement he made very telling. What he saying is if you want on the team you deliver. And that’s what he picked for the team the women who delivered

 

[FiveRinger]

So what you think we should’ve done s decided two weeks ago because there’s no need for trials to let the gymnasts prove their abilities. Really?

spoken as a true figure skating fan . Never let what the athletes deliver impact the decisions.

Actually I found this statement he made very telling. What he saying is if you want on the team you deliver. And that’s what he picked for the team the women who delivered

I'm saying that that was an insensitive statement. As the coordinator (or whatever the official title) there is a responsibility that he had. It's disrespectful to everyone not to pick the best team possible with the parameters that have been set. He makes it clear that he doesn't enjoy making these decisions and does everything he can to avoid it. Or he makes the decision that's the least painful for him. There are always going to be people who don't agree with the choice, but you don't say sh*t like that to people who have been training for a decade for this opportunity, especially after the past year. He's insensitive.

 

[pachelbel]

So the answer is that there is no strategy. They just took the top 4. Thank god the US women don’t need strategy, I guess, because otherwise we’d be in trouble.

https://twitter.com/InsideGym/status/1409351712582815747

The question wasn’t who could replace MyKayla. It was could MyKayla replace an injured team of 4 athlete.

Also swapping around people who won’t get individual medals is so far from on par with GB leaving off their possible uneven bars gold medalist, it’s not funny. This decision was kinda weird, but no one got massively robbed. They took the better all arounder instead of the person who is better on two events for the team which is a difference of like .5. And they left off someone who could make a final for someone who won’t. I think they made the wrong choice of specialist and it’s frustrating, but it’s nothing like Becky.

No one, not even the +1s can replace athletes on the 4-person team in the final. The girls named as the qualifying team are the only ones able to compete in the team final. So my point still stands because the +1 is entirely irrelevant to the 4 person team. This is the reason why teams like the US are allowed to travel to Japan with the +2 spots and their alternate. They already train separately... if a girl on the team gets injured--swap in the alternate. That's what they're there for and why Japan allowed teams to bring their alternate; the +1s are there for their individual medals, period.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

No one, not even the +1s can replace athletes on the 4-person team in the final. The girls named as the qualifying team are the only ones able to compete in the team final. So my point still stands because the +1 is entirely irrelevant to the 4 person team. This is the reason why teams like the US are allowed to travel to Japan with the +2 spots and their alternate.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? No one can be replaced after the qualification round, regardless of whether they are a specialist or team member. And yet we have alternates, as we have since… always. The alternates will travel to Tokyo with the team in case of illness or positive CV test to any of the 5 athletes before the qualification round.

Someone suggested that MyKayla was put in the +1 spot in case the team needed her as a replacement. This is faulty logic because if they needed her as a replacement they should have made her an alternate. But the question remains whether she could (by USAG or Olympic gymnastics rules) be swapped into the team if there were an injury or positive CV test before the qualifying rounds rather than one of the alternates.

 

[pachelbel]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? No one can be replaced after the qualification round, regardless of whether they are a specialist or team member. And yet we have alternates, as we have since… always. The alternates will travel to Tokyo with the team in case of illness or positive CV test to any of the 5 athletes before the qualification round.

Someone suggested that MyKayla was put in the +1 spot in case the team needed her as a replacement. This is faulty logic because if they needed her as a replacement they should have made her an alternate. But the question remains whether she could (by USAG or Olympic gymnastics rules) be swapped into the team if there were an injury or positive CV test before the qualifying rounds rather than one of the alternates.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I literally just said they already have designated alternates, so what's the point of assigning a +1 with the intention of them being an alternate as well?

And to answer your last question, yes--if someone gets injured or sick before QF, USAG will be able to substitute anyone for that spot whether they are a +1 or an alternate. I can't imagine them choosing a +1 because that would effectively eliminate 1 additional person from competing. (Which is why people were having bitch fits about Jade competing here because her taking a team spot would mean losing her individual spot.)

Fun fact: if anyone on the team tests positive, the entire team will be forced to withdraw.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I literally just said they already have designated alternates, so what's the point of assigning a +1 with the intention of them being an alternate as well?

You mean the statement I literally made in my post?

It wasn’t even my question, I just clarified it, since you kept insisting on answers that had nothing to do with the question.

 

[Coco]

The plus one is effectively the alternate for a member of the 4 person team who gets injured prior to when lineups need to be submitted. Lineups (start order within the team) are different from rosters.

This is because the actual alternates will not be in Tokyo and may not be able to get there and go through any protocols in time.

Maybe I am being pollyannaish, but I think the selection committee's process was more sophisticated than looking at average scores and picking the highest scoring team.

I'd like to think they ran best and worst case scenarios for each possible team, factoring in the likelihood of each scenario, ultimately taking the team with the least downside.

Of the four who could have contributed on vault and / or floor, Grace was the strongest on beam. I'm quite certain that's why she was chosen. She has the least downside of all the contenders. The judging, as always, was a little suspicious and they got the top five they wanted but those five should have been the Olympians regardless. It pains me to say that because I wanted Riley for the +1

It really looks like Suni and Simone both have sore ankles. So hopefully team USA finds a solution to its chronic load management issue and doesn't break anybody from here on out.

Until Rio, every US women's Olympic team (including traveling alternates) since 1996 has had someone either withdraw due to injury or compete on a broken foot / leg bone incurred after Trials. Even in Rio, Laurie had an injury that was incurred after Trials.

So if someone really thinks this fourth person isn't going to be needed on beam, they're nuts.

 

[pachelbel]

You mean the statement I literally made in my post?

It wasn’t even my question, I just clarified it, since you kept insisting on answers that had nothing to do with the question.

You mean your post that reiterated what I said previously? Cheers theatre girl. Onto to the next adventure.

 

[canbelto]

Leanne says she's not vaccinated. I really hope none of the gymnasts get stuck in health and safety protocols:

https://twitter.com/thegymterdotnet/status/1409355074422333441?s=20

 

[Theatregirl1122]

The plus one is effectively the alternate for a member of the 4 person team who gets injured prior to when lineups need to be submitted. Lineups (start order within the team) are different from rosters.

This is because the actual alternates will not be in Tokyo and may not be able to get there and go through any protocols in time.

Maybe I am being pollyannaish, but I think the selection committee's process was more sophisticated than looking at average scores and picking the highest scoring team.

I'd like to think they ran best and worst case scenarios for each possible team, factoring in the likelihood of each scenario, ultimately taking the team with the least downside.

Of the four who could have contributed on vault and / or floor, Grace was the strongest on beam. I'm quite certain that's why she was chosen. She has the least downside of all the contenders. The judging, as always, was a little suspicious and they got the top five they wanted but those five should have been the Olympians regardless. It pains me to say that because I wanted Riley for the +1

It really looks like Suni and Simone both have sore ankles. So hopefully team USA finds a solution to its chronic load management issue and doesn't break anybody from here on out.

Until Rio, every US women's Olympic team (including traveling alternates) since 1996 has had someone either withdraw due to injury or compete on a broken foot / leg bone incurred after Trials. Even in Rio, Laurie had an injury that was incurred after Trials.

So if someone really thinks this fourth person isn't going to be needed on beam, they're nuts.

They announced when making the team announcement that all replacement athletes will travel with the team to Tokyo, so it is incorrect that the alternates will not be in Tokyo.

You can like to think that they ran all the scenarios, but they stated flat out that chose the top 5 AA for the spots. If they ran all the scenarios, you’d think that’s what they’d say instead of saying they chose by rank order. They were clear on their reasoning.

 

[just tuned in]

With Tim saying a hundred times that the team needs another FX/Vault specialist, they should have put Jade on the team and made Grace the +1, and Skinner an alternate.

 

[VGThuy]

Leanne says she's not vaccinated. I really hope none of the gymnasts get stuck in health and safety protocols:

https://twitter.com/thegymterdotnet/status/1409355074422333441?s=20

Yikes.

That said, thinking about team selection, I think Tom just went with the "uncontroversial" route of choosing the top 4 for the team and fifth AAer for the nominative spot without thinking about individual medal potential for that spot. If any analysis was being done, if they really were looking at that 4th member who would be the best "back-up" on other events, then Wong would have been a stronger contender than she ended up being because on Day 1, she outscored Skinner on UB and FX and Lee and McCallum on VT. On Day 2, she outscored Lee on Vault (was close to McCallum there and beat her overall); Skinner on bars; Biles, Chilles, McCallum, and Skinner on beam; and beat everyone but Biles (tied with Chilles) on FX.

I think it's clear they simply went top 4 + Skinner. That said McCallum in hindsight can be seen as the best choice since she is capable of scoring 14+ on FX. Though we will be missing a second gymnast who can hit 15+ on vault without Skinner, her VT score is close enough to Chilles (who can hit a 14.9 vault) to cover that event instead of making Lee do it (though if Lee had to, the VT total score wouldn't be that bad as she's close enough to McCallum there too).

Are you being deliberately obtuse? No one can be replaced after the qualification round, regardless of whether they are a specialist or team member. And yet we have alternates, as we have since… always. The alternates will travel to Tokyo with the team in case of illness or positive CV test to any of the 5 athletes before the qualification round.

Someone suggested that MyKayla was put in the +1 spot in case the team needed her as a replacement. This is faulty logic because if they needed her as a replacement they should have made her an alternate. But the question remains whether she could (by USAG or Olympic gymnastics rules) be swapped into the team if there were an injury or positive CV test before the qualifying rounds rather than one of the alternates.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I literally just said they already have designated alternates, so what's the point of assigning a +1 with the intention of them being an alternate as well?

And to answer your last question, yes--if someone gets injured or sick before QF, USAG will be able to substitute anyone for that spot whether they are a +1 or an alternate. I can't imagine them choosing a +1 because that would effectively eliminate 1 additional person from competing. (Which is why people were having bitch fits about Jade competing here because her taking a team spot would mean losing her individual spot.)

Fun fact: if anyone on the team tests positive, the entire team will be forced to withdraw.

Reading both of your posts multiple times, I don't think you guys are saying anything differently, so I'm not sure why @pachelbel is disagreeing with what @Theatregirl1122 is saying considering they said essentially what she already stated.

I did learn I was wrong about subbing after competition started. I seriously thought I read that somewhere but my memory could be playing tricks on me.

With Tim saying a hundred times that the team needs another FX/Vault specialist, they should have put Jade on the team and made Grace the +1, and Skinner an alternate.

Jade is not a FX specialist. Her FX score at Trials was super low and her scores at Nationals wouldn't fill the void that many other gymnasts could have filled on that apparatus either and a few could score higher by some way. Skinner would have been a better pick if they were going to put a VT/FX specialist on the team as opposed to just the 4th best AAer at Trials even though I wouldn't call Skinner a FX specialist either since she scored 7th overall at Trials. McCallum was the best choice because she's capable of scoring 14.1+, so close to Wong and her vault is on par with the double yurchenko vaulters.

 

[AxelAnnie]

She just said, "I'm just in so much pain."

Who said that?

 

[AxelAnnie]

When Simone fell, I believe the foot up was because of pain. It was a very quick reaction-- I think she needs to pull.

She won't I bet.

 

[millyskate]

From an outsider's perspective, that team seems to make sense and looks strong. I'm excited to see Sunisa Lee in Tokyo especially, she's probably my favourite AA gymnast right now.
Still not over the British Team selection but they've recently appointed a new CEO, so here's so hoping things might change.

 

[Karina1974]

She won't I bet.

You're a bit late to the party. Jayar was referring to Simone pulling out of competing FX last night after falling off beam. She was in tears almost the entire time between beam and floor, which she did compete after all.

 

[Susan1]

I just saw parts of this last night. What happened to the girl who fell on the floor exercise? She landed right on her face, but they had to help her off on one foot.

 

[Aceon6]

I just saw parts of this last night. What happened to the girl who fell on the floor exercise? She landed right on her face, but they had to help her off on one foot.

Emily Lee. Serious injury to right ankle/foot. I don’t see any updates yet, but the way her foot drooped, it might be the achilles.

 

[semillon27]

With Tim saying a hundred times that the team needs another FX/Vault specialist, they should have put Jade on the team and made Grace the +1, and Skinner an alternate.

And end up taking 5 women to the Olympics instead of 6? No. Jade made her choice in 2018. Either MyKayla or Grace is just as reasonable an option as putting Jade on the team.

I agree with those that have said that Tom just went rank order to make it easy for himself. On the one hand, it's not a terrible strategy for a four-member team and a 4-3-3 format, and it avoids any argument of Marta-type favoritism and the impression that the results are pre-determined. On the other hand, his job is to pick the highest-scoring team, and he flat-out failed there, and his justification for it was B.S.

I do ultimately prefer Grace for the team based on what we saw at trials, but mostly because I think she's a better AA'er than Skinner, and with the improvement she showed between nationals and trials, I think she'll only get better between now and the start of the Olympics. She needed more time to recover from her hand injury. My preference going in to trials would have been Leanne, but she doomed her chances with two beam falls on day 1.

 

[Coco]

Yeah, she landed on her face because she didn't get her normal height. Something happened on takeoff

 

[semillon27]

I just saw parts of this last night. What happened to the girl who fell on the floor exercise? She landed right on her face, but they had to help her off on one foot.

She probably snapped her Achilles on the take-off, which is why she couldn't get the skill around and landed on her face. It reminded me so much of what happened to Vanessa Ferrari in floor finals at 2017 Worlds. So sad for her. Just one routine and she could finish off and head to UCLA. Now....

 

[skipaway]

Simone denies injuries

Asked about speculation that she may have been injured during the meet, Biles said: "I'm just old. I'm always in pain. Something always hurts."

 

[Rukia]

So I think there are two separate things going on here. Tom did just go down the AA list for reasons that don't make a lot of sense. But he also said that they did have a program that analyzed the numbers and also that coaches were informed ahead of time that trials would be weighted more heavily in the consideration.

On the other hand I'd be annoyed if I were Jade Carey because it would seem like they're basically trying to take away my EF spot that I went out and earned because I've learned you can't depend on USAG for, well, anything.

 

[just tuned in]

So I think there are two separate things going on here. Tom did just go down the AA list for reasons that don't make a lot of sense. But he also said that they did have a program that analyzed the numbers and also that coaches were informed ahead of time that trials would be weighted more heavily in the consideration.

On the other hand I'd be annoyed if I were Jade Carey because it would seem like they're basically trying to take away my EF spot that I went out and earned because I've learned you can't depend on USAG for, well, anything.

I am sure that Jade would have preferred to be named to the team. Yes, doing so would mean one less person competing at the Olympics.

But choosing Skinner as the +1? She is not likely to win any medals.

 

[Coco]

Skinner can totally medal on vault. I'm not sure if Jade is seriously injured and has lost skills or is just mildly injured and pacing herself, but it will be interesting to see who makes it into vault finals along with Simone.

 

[FiveRinger]

So I think there are two separate things going on here. Tom did just go down the AA list for reasons that don't make a lot of sense. But he also said that they did have a program that analyzed the numbers and also that coaches were informed ahead of time that trials would be weighted more heavily in the consideration.

On the other hand I'd be annoyed if I were Jade Carey because it would seem like they're basically trying to take away my EF spot that I went out and earned because I've learned you can't depend on USAG for, well, anything.

Jade was going to have to beat at least 2 of her team mates anyway to get to the vault final, whether they put Skinner directly on the team or if Skinner was a +1 specialist. They didn't take anything from her. But again, that's the path that she chose.

 

[Doggygirl]

I'm thrilled for the gymnasts who made the team / +1's. I'm heart broken for the gymnasts whose life long dreams may have come to an end last night. There are just so many good gymnasts for so few spots!

I am kind of glad the selections ended up being the top 5 from the Olympic Trials. I totally understand why there is a need to hedge the bets and leave room for factors in the decision other than placement at trials. (i.e. someone like Simone has a REALLY bad comp!) I've also seen a lot of different iterations on the numbers - possible scoring potential under various scenarios. Bottom line is that all the scenarios I've seen are pretty close. So making the actual trial results the final selection makes a lot of sense to me. Why even have trials if that result doesn't really matter?

I too am really curious about Jade's true status. I agree with @Coco that it will be interesting to see which of Jade v. Mykayla prevails in preliminaries on vault. I'm glad they both get to compete.