Gymnastic news #22 - Tokyo or bust

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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I'm impressed that his music was known on the other side of the Iron Curtain, now that I think about it.
 

Choupette

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I'm impressed that his music was known on the other side of the Iron Curtain, now that I think about it.
That was also my first thought upon learning that fact, hence why I had to remind myself that he was already established internationally. The Soviets seemed really open when it came to selecting music even if they favored classical styles at the time. I think Nellie Kim's 1980 or Frolova's 1988 music choices were more surprising to me, all things considered.

Would have been even funnier to see a Soviet gymnast performing on the Rocky IV soundtrack. (I know Bulgarian gymnast Dudeva did.)
 

Enchanted

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ITV has just led it's evening news once more with the British gymnastics scandal. BG have just announced an independent investigation:

https://www.british-gymnastics.org/...ritish-gymnastics-announce-independent-review

ITV interviewed a former gymnast called Margaux Derakhshan. Her story was featured in the blog I posted upthread but you can read it in full here:

http://innermagic.co.uk/margauxs-story-a-gymnast-finally-speaks-out/

Margaux trained at Heathrow Gymnastics Club who have also come under the spotlight in tonights news. Margaux's post is also on facebook and currently visible to all as far as I know. In the comments she was essentially gaslighted by former gymnasts who are now coaches at Heathrow.
It’s been really disturbing to read about the training conditions and abuse in British gymnastics. Apparently, the British gymnasts have been inspired by the documentary Athlete A.

More links to news reports:

Sky News report

BBC report
 

FiveRinger

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Heavy Metals

The 30 for 30 ESPN podcast of the Karolyis. Beware, it is 7 episodes, each one between 40-69 minutes. Hopefully we can discuss after people have a chance to listen. I will be listening.....
 

her grace

standing with Mariah
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ESPN posted an article about Dominique Moceanu, and her role in exposing the abusive culture in gymnastics: How Olympian Dominique Moceanu defied gymnastics' culture of silence and helped Larry Nassar survivors. It's nice to see Moceanu receive some positive press, particularly after all the backlash she received when she first went public.

Also, I loved this quote:

Martha hadn't coached a personal gymnast since Kerri and me in 1996. She didn't have a magic formula. Do enough numbers, put athletes under enough pressure, pluck the very best in the country and as soon as they get hurt, kick them out and replace them with the next one in line -- that's not magic. You could put Pinocchio in Martha's position and he could have made the USA a winning program.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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Fast forward to 9:00 of her induction speech and hear an amazing story.
 
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VGThuy

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If she was healthy, I wonder if she could have won a few medals at the Olympics. Some people think she could have helped team USA win gold in 1984, but Romania was a whole point ahead and looking at the scores that were counted, I'm not sure if Durham would made up a whole point through both compulsories and optionals, but I don't know for sure obviously. I also wonder how Bela would have juggled her and Mary Lou. Both had the potential to be sensations at those Olympics, and of course Mary Lou was. I'm not the biggest Mary Lou fan, but I really do credit her for truly inspiring so many American parents to put their kids in gyms after 1984 and well, we saw what happened.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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It's very difficult to know how Durham would have impacted the 1984 team. If she had finished the trials and finished in the top 8, she would have bumped Kathy Johnson from the team (Johnson was the third best finisher for the US at the Olympics). The top 4 were guaranteed a spot on the team per the rules (Retton, McNamara, Dusserre, and Bileck). The last two competition spots were decided later among the next four (Wener, Talavera, Roethlisberger, Johnson) - supposedly based on training camp and a dual meet against Canada that I can't find results for. Though Wener had a knee injury and probably couldn't have competed anyway and Roethlisberger also had a bad elbow that required surgery, but she was still on the floor as the alternate.

The results on gymn-forum show Durham as "SCRATCHED" with no scores, so I don't know how close she was to the top 4 at the point of her withdrawal.

Durham did continue her career in 1985 and actually finished 3rd at the American Classic (a qualifying competition for US nationals), finishing ahead of some gymnasts who ended up making the world team later that year. Unfortunately she got injured again (the same injury as the Olympic trials IIRC) and retired. I would love to see video of the 1985 American Classic though....
 

VGThuy

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I know injuries happen, especially in this sport, but what were the Karyolis doing to her? She was ALWAYS injured at the worst moments - thus sidelining her entire elite career.
 

ilovepaydays

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Is anyone else wondering why Steve Nunno’s name hasn’t come up yet? Or was his deal just that he had the most over the top personality ever? Wasn’t Kerri Strug coached by him for awhile?
 

Choupette

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Is anyone else wondering why Steve Nunno’s name hasn’t come up yet? Or was his deal just that he had the most over the top personality ever? Wasn’t Kerri Strug coached by him for awhile?
Yes, he coached Kerri Strug for some time. I can't recall her speaking about Karolyi, so I don't expect her to speak out about Nunno.

I have little idea what Nunno has been up to in the past 15 years or so. Is he even coaching and if so, what level his gymnasts are generally aiming at?

We spoke about Nunno two months ago in this thread, from this post. Back in 2018, Shannon Miller was claiming that she didn't experience abuse in gymnastics, although she recognized there was abuse in the sport that needed to be addressed. As Nunno hasn't been a prominent figure in the sport for a long time, and his one star claims all was fine as far as she was concerned, I am not really wondering why.

His name had come up a long time ago however, but for some reason, no one took these warning signs seriously when they came out.


With two daughters at the Oklahoma gym run by Steve Nunno--Miller’s coach--Jo was in a position to see firsthand the harsh methods used in the name of winning.

One of Jo’s daughters is still with the sport, at another gym, but the mother asked to remain anonymous because “Steve wields a lot of power in this sport. If he knew it was me, my daughter might as well quit.” At Nunno’s gym, Jo said, her other daughter received a “never-ending” stream of verbal abuse. The girls were called lazy, fat cows, stupid and gutless. One coach told Jo she wanted the girls to fear her more than they feared a risky move.
 

Erin

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The results on gymn-forum show Durham as "SCRATCHED" with no scores, so I don't know how close she was to the top 4 at the point of her withdrawal.
The results are available in an old USA Gymnastics magazine, available online here (page 22 for the women's results):

I believe Durham would have been too far back mathematically to catch Bileck in fourth and it would have taken ~9.7s on bars and beam to catch Johnson in 8th, with all the different factoring. I was surprised to see this, but Johnson finished 0.6 ahead of Durham at Nationals, which counted for 40%, and even with Johnson's big mistake on compulsory bars, she was less than a point behind Durham in compulsories at Trials. Johnson also beat Durham by quite a bit on the first two events of Trials that they both competed, largely due to the fall that caused Durham's injury.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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Thanks @Erin for finding that. I don't understand why Mordre shows as 9th in the results when her score is lower than the three below her (Butler, Garrison, and Mavity). Though those three petitioned to trials so maybe that's part of it? I remember in 1988 if you petitioned to the Olympic trials you had to finish in the top 4 to make the team (according to IG), and this rule IIRC also kept Stokes off the 1991 world championship team.

I would love to see home video coverage of some of these competitions.
 

VGThuy

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Which Olympic quad had the best constructed compulsory routines all-around? Then individually? I love compulsories and am trying to broaden my exposure to them.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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Which Olympic quad had the best constructed compulsory routines all-around? Then individually? I love compulsories and am trying to broaden my exposure to them.
This could be a whole separate thread :)

I would love to know who (which country) created each routine.
 

FiveRinger

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This could be a whole separate thread :)

I would love to know who (which country) created each routine.
Every quad I vow to start a campaign to bring them back. They are so beautiful.

I would love it if there was a compilation of all of them. I don't know how to accomplish it. Just seeing them for all of the World and Olympic events would be something. Anything before 1984 is so hard to find.
 

SpeedySucks

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The results are available in an old USA Gymnastics magazine, available online here (page 22 for the women's results):

I believe Durham would have been too far back mathematically to catch Bileck in fourth and it would have taken ~9.7s on bars and beam to catch Johnson in 8th, with all the different factoring. I was surprised to see this, but Johnson finished 0.6 ahead of Durham at Nationals, which counted for 40%, and even with Johnson's big mistake on compulsory bars, she was less than a point behind Durham in compulsories at Trials. Johnson also beat Durham by quite a bit on the first two events of Trials that they both competed, largely due to the fall that caused Durham's injury.
Thanks for sharing - I had never thought to look in USA Gymnastics magazine for scores.

This indicates that Dianne got injured in the 6th rotation and scratched bars and beam. That contradicts the story I’ve always heard, which is that she got injured in the 7th rotation and scratched bars only. With her injury, she probably could have done some sort of bars dismount, but it seems unlikely that she would have been able to do beam as well. I wonder if USGF just missed reporting her beam score or if the story has been told wrong all these years. At any rate, if Dianne needed 9.7s on bars and beam to finish 8th, I doubt she would have gotten the scores needed since very few gymnasts scored that high on either event.
 

Erin

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Thanks for sharing - I had never thought to look in USA Gymnastics magazine for scores.

This indicates that Dianne got injured in the 6th rotation and scratched bars and beam. That contradicts the story I’ve always heard, which is that she got injured in the 7th rotation and scratched bars only. With her injury, she probably could have done some sort of bars dismount, but it seems unlikely that she would have been able to do beam as well. I wonder if USGF just missed reporting her beam score or if the story has been told wrong all these years. At any rate, if Dianne needed 9.7s on bars and beam to finish 8th, I doubt she would have gotten the scores needed since very few gymnasts scored that high on either event.
Yes, I've always heard she just had one event left too. But the results listed match up with the overview on page 16 of the magazine, which says that Durham hurt herself on the "second round" of the optionals. I'm usually inclined to trust reports of the time more than reporting years later, so I would guess the story has been told wrong.

I flipped through the rest of the magazine and rolled my eyes at the supplement endorsement by Bela on page 2.
 

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