Gymnastic news #22 - Tokyo or bust

[Bellanca]

It's creepy how everyone kept saying this was Marta's LAST Olympics and in retrospect she was just peacing out because she knew USAG was about to go down the tubes.

She was peacing out because the walls were closing in and the ranch was always a shortsighted, ill-conceived, POS idea from the very beginning. The USA is not Romania. They don’t sweep their gymnasts off to some remote shack on a mountaintop away from family and friends. Unfortunately, some jacka$$ did think it was a good idea to completely transform women's gymnastics in the US, sequester the gymnasts away from parents and supervision if only for just a few weeks or so out of a year. God forbid anyone ever thinks shutting athletes away again in some secluded sh!thole is a smart idea. And to think people wanted USFS to adopt a similar program. I shudder to think...

Eta: the coaches who adopted the abusive style introduced at the ranch should not get a pass. They’re adults who should have known better and resisted the pathetic groveling and a$$ kissing they were engaging in to curry favor for their gymnasts. How pathetic. Your actions dictate the consequences — and theirs certainly did.

 

[floskate]

I once read an article - many years ago and in print so I can't find a link - where the author stated that he had never seen an athlete more subjugated to their coach than Shannon Miller was to Steve Nunno. Which tells you all you need to know really. I'm always really surprised at how outgoing and vivacious Shannon is as an adult because as a child all I got was perma-scared (of making a mistake) starved foundling with a scrunchie addiction. I think it was the same article that stated that as a special treat Shannon had a slice of pizza for her 16th birthday. A slice!! But that meant she had to do an extra hour on the treadmill the next day to make sure she 'got rid of it'.

Marta....just, where do you even start with her? The domination, the control, the manipulation, the unecessary injuries. After everything that has happened and the part that she has played in that system that enabled SO much horrific abuse, it is shocking to me that relatively few coaches (and even gymnasts) within the sport have come forward and spoken out against her. MLT has and I do appreciate her honesty about educating herself and changing but I agree with @Weve3 she and the rest of the abusive coaches do not get a pass, no matter how many public mea culpa's they are prepared to subject themselves to. An adult who is willing to adopt a system like that is an adult who cannot be trusted around children because they have already shown that they didn't put the kid first. They put their own career and position in Marta's inner circle ahead of kids wellbeing and I'm sorry, but distancing yourself by not going to some of the card games just isn't enough.

 

[danafan]

I once read an article - many years ago and in print so I can't find a link - where the author stated that he had never seen an athlete more subjugated to their coach than Shannon Miller was to Steve Nunno.

I think that quote is from Joan Ryan's book "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes". She was quoting someone, but I don't remember who said it though. Ryan tried to warn us all those years ago....

 

[bardtoob]

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[VGThuy]

I still can’t believe nothing happened to Fong after two gymnasts died on his watch and another one cracked her vertebrae.

 

[ilovepaydays]

I still can’t believe nothing happened to Fong after two gymnasts died on his watch and another one cracked her vertebrae.

I’m even more shocked that parents still pay to send their kids to him. He can’t be the only elite level gymnastics coach in the Kansas City area.

Are quality coaches at the elite level really that rare? Or there work is magic? For example, Morgan Hurd the first and only elite gymnast that Slava Glazounov & First State Gymnastics have ever had? I wonder if Morgan’s mother will ever do an interview on why she’s stayed with them when she’s probably been asked (or even highly recommended by the powers to be) to send Morgan to other coaches around the country.

 

[Choupette]

Shannon and her mom should not have been afraid to voice any concerns to Nunno, whether it be about a floor element, an injury, or whether or not she got a paper cut doing her homework and the chalk made it burn. They were paying him, for God’s sake. He ruled by fear and intimidation, which is obvious by the remarks that Jo made in reference to him that @Choupette posted. BTW, have we seen him with any world class gymnasts since Shannon retired? Legit question. I honestly don’t know.

I agree it doesn't matter what concerns would be brought to Nunno. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't been misunderstood, since I was the one to bring the topic. I couldn't agree more with you.

I once read an article - many years ago and in print so I can't find a link - where the author stated that he had never seen an athlete more subjugated to their coach than Shannon Miller was to Steve Nunno. Which tells you all you need to know really. I'm always really surprised at how outgoing and vivacious Shannon is as an adult because as a child all I got was perma-scared (of making a mistake) starved foundling with a scrunchie addiction. I think it was the same article that stated that as a special treat Shannon had a slice of pizza for her 16th birthday. A slice!! But that meant she had to do an extra hour on the treadmill the next day to make sure she 'got rid of it'.

I think that quote is from Joan Ryan's book "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes". She was quoting someone, but I don't remember who said it though. Ryan tried to warn us all those years ago....

By some miracle, I found my old copy of "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes" with little effort. I also remembered FiveRinger's floskate's memories being from that book. The exact quote, page 227:

"Shannon Miller," former trainer Jack Rockwell says, "is subjugated to Steve Nunno more than any girl I've ever seen."

The treadmill anecdote came in the next paragraph; that was apparently self-driven.

As for Nunno, I don't think he coached world class gymnasts after Shannon. I just know he coached college gymnastics for some time in the 2000s if I remember right.

That book came out in 1995 and Larry Nassar started working on the national team the following year. What a missed opportunity. Instead, USA Gymnastics enabled the Karolyis and their methods, with the consequences we all know.

1995 was before Internet forums and a few years before I found any sports forum online. Whenever the topic of that book popped, I seem to remember mostly fans criticizing Joan Ryan because of a few inaccuracies, like when or how Natalia Yurchenko's injury took place, for example, as if it meant you could throw the entire portrait she made of the sport out of the window.

It's scary when I think that what Maggie Hainey did sounded worse than what I had heard of the Karolyi, and that Ashton Locklear said Qi Han was worse than Maggie Hainey.

 

[floskate]

By some miracle, I found my old copy of "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes" with little effort. I also remembered FiveRinger's memories being from that book. The exact quote, page 227:



The treadmill anecdote came in the next paragraph; that was apparently self-driven.

As for Nunno, I don't think he coached world class gymnasts after Shannon. I just know he coached college gymnastics for some time in the 2000s if I remember right.

That book came out in 1995 and Larry Nassar started working on the national team the following year. What a missed opportunity. Instead, USA Gymnastics enabled the Karolyis and their methods, with the consequences we all know.

1995 was before Internet forums and a few years before I found any sports forum online. Whenever the topic of that book popped, I seem to remember mostly fans criticizing Joan Ryan because of a few inaccuracies, like when or how Natalia Yurchenko's injury took place, for example, as if it meant you could throw the entire portrait she made of the sport out of the window.

It's scary when I think that what Maggie Hainey did sounded worse than what I had heard of the Karolyi, and that Ashton Locklear said Qi Han was worse than Maggie Hainey.

Wow how had I remembered that? I only read the book once when it was first published and let my copy go many years ago. Oh well at least I remembered somewhat correctly and while the need to rid herself of the pizza slice was self driven it still speaks volumes about what she obviously felt was expected of her and how she viewed such a thing (as eating a slice of pizza.)

 

[Coco]

What struck me about LGIPB was how the other US coaches came off so much worse than the Karolyis, even though the Karolyis also came across as cruel.

Everyone loves to blame Martha, and as leader she is responsible for everything that happened at the ranch and at World/Olympic Championships one way or another.

But people like Martha don't have real power unless the next layer down from her is FULL of adults who are knocking each other over to please her and earn the title of "Most Approved of by Dear Leader." The culture around elite gymnastics coaches already seemed to be a hard drinking and "macho" before the Karolyis came to the prominence in the US. Add in the lack of transparency regarding team selections and sprinkle a healthy dose of adults raised behind the iron curtain into the mix*...it's a very toxic recipe.


*I'm not saying they are bad people, far from it. I'm just saying they are far less likely to speak out against authority than people raised in the West.

 

[Choupette]

Wow how had I remembered that? I only read the book once when it was first published and let my copy go many years ago. Oh well at least I remembered somewhat correctly and while the need to rid herself of the pizza slice was self driven it still speaks volumes about what she obviously felt was expected of her and how she viewed such a thing (as eating a slice of pizza.)

That's like me reading the book written by Miller's mother. Sometimes things you read just stick in your mind because it's just too memorable.

What struck me about LGIPB was how the other US coaches came off so much worse than the Karolyis, even though the Karolyis also came across as cruel.

Everyone loves to blame Martha, and as leader she is responsible for everything that happened at the ranch and at World/Olympic Championships one way or another.

But people like Martha don't have real power unless the next layer down from her is FULL of adults who are knocking each other over to please her and earn the title of "Most Approved of by Dear Leader." The culture around elite gymnastics coaches already seemed to be a hard drinking and "macho" before the Karolyis came to the prominence in the US. Add in the lack of transparency regarding team selections and sprinkle a healthy dose of adults raised behind the iron curtain into the mix*...it's a very toxic recipe.


*I'm not saying they are bad people, far from it. I'm just saying they are far less likely to speak out against authority than people raised in the West.

Who are you thinking of when speaking of adults raised behind the iron curtain?

Overall, I agree, it's not only the Karolyis' fault. I'm mostly frustrated USA Gymnastics gave them so much power, even years after what they were doing in their gym became widely known. I'm afraid I'm even doubting how much Marta has to do with the American success. I think it has a lot to do with individual coaching and the fall of traditional gymnastics powers. What if the American gymnasts had been less injured and not so mentally drained, maybe they could have had even more success?

 

[FiveRinger]

The book I really want to get my hands on is Alexandra Marinescu’s autobiography. I heard that it is monumental, describing the abuse of Octavian Belu. Unfortunately, I’ve had no luck. Anyone with ideas, please share.

Belu is another prick. Even though she earned the right to compete in the AA in Atlanta, Belu actually told the media that she (Alexandra) did not work hard enough and he pulled her from the competition and replaced her with Simona Amanar. I don’t know which is worse, what Belu did to Alexandra or the bullsh*t injury that was the Unified Team fabricated in order to replace Rosa Galieva with Gutsu.

ETA: I’m in countdown mode waiting for Athlete A to come out on Netflix next month.

 

[Choupette]

Regarding Marinescu, Belu's comment is awful, but if you think strictly about medal chances, Belu gave her Milosovici's place in the balance beam final, where she had a better shot at a medal than in the all-around (she had won the silver at the previous world championships only months before).

I prefer when gymnasts earn their place onto a team and finals, but the Unified Team had handpicked their team in the first place, so it was always a matter of being chosen by the coaches from the beginning to the end of the whole process. If the coach didn't think a gymnast had a shot at a medal, they would replace her. Even Boginskaya was replaced by Chusovitina in the FX finals despite having qualified in first! Frankly, I don't think either Boginskaya or Galieva missed out on a medal. But it sure would have been cool if, à la Marinescu, Galieva could have had her shot at the FX final, where she would have been more competitive than in the AA.

 

[canbelto]

The USSR team was always really hierarchical. It's partly because the teams in general were so strong that any of them theoretically could be competitive in an AA or event final. In 1972 Loudmila Tourischeva was "the best" and Olga Korbut was thought to have cut in line. So many years later, the two women are still bitter about each other. I can't even imagine being that petty but ...

I remember an interview with Svetlana Boguinskaya where she said it took her awhile to accept that Tatiana Gutsu was always going to perform her very best and no one was going to "let" Boguinskaya win even though Bogi thought it was her due. I was surprised to hear Boguinskaya express this.

But as I said, things happen for a reason. We found out later that Tatiana Gutsu was raped by golden boy Vitaly Scherbo. So I'm always happy that Tatiana won the AA gold -- how awful would it have been had her Olympic experience be falling off the beam AND watching the world grovel at Vitaly Scherbo?

 

[FiveRinger]

Marinescu had a horrible time in the BB final. I can't remember if she fell 2 or 3 times, but I felt so bad for her. I've heard about the awful punishments thsy Belu and Mariana Bitang subjected the girls to...beatings, starvation, being locked in bathrooms without running water. They already were prejudiced against her because she trained in Bucharest with the junior national team and not Deva.

The Soviets were always questionable. Shushunova and Omeliantchik didn't qualify for finals at the worlds in 1985, they were put in for 2 other gymnasts.

There was a lot of disbelief about Gutsu and her rape allegations. I was surprised at the number of people who said that they didn't believe her, including Moceanu and Gutsu's roommate at Round Lake. As a child abuse survivor I would never accuse a victim was lying. I was shocked that Moceanu said this publicly.

I'm not surprised by Boguinskaya's remarks. She started as a figure skater....lol....and we all know that waiting your turn is synonymous with that! But seriously, that's embedded in the culture. I think I remember Khorkina making similar remarks. I didn't realize that Tourisheva and Korbut were still holding grudges almost 50 years later, though. Both of them were manipulated by a system bigger than them. Nether had any control over anything.

 

[canbelto]

There was a lot of disbelief about Gutsu and her rape allegations. I was surprised at the number of people who said that they didn't believe her, including Moceanu and Gutsu's roommate at Round Lake. As a child abuse survivor I would never accuse a victim was lying. I was shocked that Moceanu said this publicly.

I'm not surprised by Boguinskaya's remarks. She started as a figure skater....lol....and we all know that waiting your turn is synonymous with that! But seriously, that's embedded in the culture. I think I remember Khorkina making similar remarks. I didn't realize that Tourisheva and Korbut were still holding grudges almost 50 years later, though. Both of them were manipulated by a system bigger than them. Nether had any control over anything.

I was also shocked by Moceanu's comments considering:
1) she wasn't there (this was 1991)
and
2) She herself was the victim of abuse and had people not believing her. I don't see what Gutsu would gain by lying.

As for Tourischeva and Korbut, Tourischeva gave this interview last year. She sounds like a real charmer. Love her gymnastics but what assy, insensitive, petty things to say.

Tourishcheva: In 1972, we were sent off as if we went to war

Legendary Soviet gymnast Liudmila Tourishcheva and her husband, an Olympic champion in track Valeriy Borzov recently visited Minsk to attend the European Games and talked to Sport.tut.by about thei…

eng.gymnovosti.com

The harassment scandals touching Belorussian artistic gymnastics are breaking hearts. In 2017, Tatiana Gutsu said that Vitaly Scherbo allegedly raped her in 1991. In 2018, Olga Korbut accused her coach Ronald Knysh of rape on tv. What do you feel during such moments?

LT: If there was no scandal then [when it happened], it means there shouldn’t be one now. It was needed to claim this when it happened – go scream! I have not witnessed harassment and I’m hurt when such things come up while talking events in artistic gymnastics from more than 40 years ago. It’s not the alleged participants who are hurt by the harassment accusations but everyone around them.

Q: Olga Korbut also auctioned off her Olympic medals. The Munich-1972 gold was valued at $66,000 and altogether, Korbut got $229,200 for her medals.

LT: I think, it was $138,000.

VB: That was the sum after paying the taxes. Actually, we talked to Nellie Kim about it just on Sunday.

Q: So, you’re discussing this topic?

VB: Yes, we touched it.

LT: I wonder whether Olga really needed the money so urgently or she needed for people to start talking about her again? When people forget her, she starts doing something about it.

Q: Liudmila Ivanova, is your competition with Korbut in the 1970s comparable to the competition between Viktoria Azarenka and and Serena Williams in modern-day tennis?

LT: Those who want to compare can do that. Olya was a representative of a new generation of gymnastics, while I was close to retirement. Olya had fresh new elements in her routines. She practice a wonderful smile with her coach. She knew how to talk to the fans. No matter how loud the fans and the media were when talking about Olga Korbut, I calmed myself down with the words: “The sport is not a show, it’s a competition. The results will put everyone in their places.” Olga never managed to beat me in the all-around, she was always second. Jealousy? I was never worried about it. The sport means that when the competition is strong, the training has passion, you want to achieve your goal and not to let competitors get ahead of you, that’s it. And about me not smiling, I can say that I didn’t work for the fans, I worked for my country, my coach, and myself. Everyone knew that I was going to retire after 1976 and asked me: “Why are you retiring? You’re doing great.” I thought: “Thank God, they’re saying this.” The fans just didn’t know what injuries I had – fractures in my arm, leg, spine. They didn’t know what I could do and what I already couldn’t.

VB: Being likeable for the media plays a significant role in sports. Olya had results and the way she was promoted matched the public’s need for a new hero. Small, pigtails, tears, [Korbut] salt – this combination was liked by the fans. Olya was popular then and her image is still working for her, despite the fact that she spoiled it a bit [with the rape claims]. She’s on trend which is what Americans like.

 

[bardtoob]

VB: That was the sum after paying the taxes. Actually, we talked to Nellie Kim about it just on Sunday.

Q: So, you’re discussing this topic?

VB: Yes, we touched it.

LT: I wonder whether Olga really needed the money so urgently or she needed for people to start talking about her again? When people forget her, she starts doing something about it.

...

 

[floskate]

There was a BBC documentary called Olga Korbut: The gymnast, Her Coach, Her Rival and the President aired in 2000 as part of their Reputations documentary series. (I had it on tape so it must be somewhere). In it Olga revealed she had been groomed and raped by her coach Renald Knysh. It is a fascinating documentary and lots of footage of Touricheva sucking lemons about Olga. Olga also claimed that the deal had already been done for where the event final medals were going to go. Karin Janz would win vault and bars, Lazakovich would win beam and Tourischeva the floor exercise. But then Olga - particularly after bars where the booing at her score went on for about 10 minutes and the next girl had to compete while they were still booing!!!! - performed brilliantly on beam and floor and, perhaps not wanting a full on riot in the Olympiahalle, the judges marked her accordingly and she won both.

In the documentary she mentions how furious Tourischeva was and she says if you watch the footage you can see it all play out. A few years later I was lucky enoughto be able to see the event finals in real time. Lazakovich comes out after beam straight away for floor and has clearly been sobbing. Her body language throughout just seems so defeatist. You can see Tourischeva's reaction at the end of Olga's FX. Only Lubov Burda was pleased for her. Ludmilla and Tamara completely gave her the cold shoulder, so I would say there is certainly some truth to what Olga was saying about the event finals.

It had to have been tough though for Tourischeva. She was the star, she had been primed for her crowning moment and then she was completely upstaged when her moment arrived. That, followed by years of having to appear as second string to Olga on endless tours around the world, all so the Soviets could milk their biggest star for all she was worth and while the worlds press fawned all over her wherever they went; most people would struggle to take all that!

Here are a couple of extracts from the documentary in question:

https://youtu.be/eI2ImBTBnU0

https://youtu.be/rjBTdn3LyXM

 

[pollyanna]

My mother was captivated by Korbut in 1972. I distinctly remember when Korbut caught her foot on the mat during AA bars my mother declared that the Soviet Federation made her do it so Tourisheva, their favorite, would win. Of course, Korbut continued to bomb the rest of that exercise, so she only finished 7th all around. But as my mother would say, it was Olga everyone remembered.

 

[pollyanna]

I just watched a YouTube video of Korbut 1972 Olympic Highlights, and at the end they show a bit of the beam medal ceremony. Poor Lazakovich is shown sobbing on the medal stand.

 

[bardtoob]

Thank you @floskate

Note: Even Olga admits to smoking to keep thin by deadening her appetite and even restricting water intake . . . and they talk about knowing about intentionally delaying puberty and imply drugs could be used to do this!

https://youtu.be/eI2ImBTBnU0?t=214

 

[canbelto]

I've seen enough of the 72 event finals. I would have given:
Bars and beam = Olga
Floor = Loudmila

Ludmilla Tourischeva 1972 Olympics EF FX

Ludmilla Tourischeva performs her floor exercise routine in the event finals of the 1972 Olympic Games. She scores a 9.800 and wins the silver medal.

www.youtube.com

Loudmila's floor is a lot more acrobatic than I would have expected. I love her aerial carthweels that land on one knee.

 

[bardtoob]

Amy Chow - 2000 Verification Camp - Balance Beam

Amy Chow - 2000 Verification Camp - Balance Beam - Gymnastics (Provided by NastiaFan101)

youtu.be

I'm posting this because the whole event seemed so secretive.

 

[bardtoob]

.

 

[her grace]

I still can't believe the things her mother admitted to in that book. She must have been completely intoxicated by the gymnastics culture because she clearly didn't realize how crazy some choices she described looked to outsiders.

The thing is, I do think Mrs. Miller comes off as "saner" than other parents from her era. Shannon lived at home and went to public school, both of which were rare. I suspect the Millers thought they could counter Nunno's craziness, but I don't think they succeeded. You can't leave your child in that kind of environment for that many hours and not suffer serious harm.

The part that really gets me is that the failures of the Karyoli method lasted till 2012 and I’m being generous. Sure the centralization and training may have created the depth and readiness, but the overtraining and the crazy amount of injuries all happened under their watch. There’s no reason why the 2000, 2004, and 2008 Olympic teams should have been as beaten up as they were.

In 2008, I don't think they had a chance against China's age-ineligible team. They were that far behind. But 2004, to have that crop of gymnasts and still lose because you broke your best athletes and made stupid selections and line-up decisions--that's all on Marta.

She was peacing out because the walls were closing in and the ranch was always a shortsighted, ill-conceived, POS idea from the very beginning. The USA is not Romania. They don’t sweep their gymnasts off to some remote shack on a mountaintop away from family and friends.

Absolutely! Just the fact that the camp was secluded away and without easy access to medical care is ridiculous. From the start, the well-being of the gymnasts certainly wasn't a priority.

 

[Choupette]

The thing is, I do think Mrs. Miller comes off as "saner" than other parents from her era. Shannon lived at home and went to public school, both of which were rare. I suspect the Millers thought they could counter Nunno's craziness, but I don't think they succeeded. You can't leave your child in that kind of environment for that many hours and not suffer serious harm.

It's very possible. What struck me was that this was a book she wrote. She could very well have left out those parts or at the very least, some details. She could have said she sought a priest because she thought it could be generally a good idea to help Shannon, but that also speaking with Nunno was essential. But no, it took her some time to make up her mind to speak to him.

She could also have explained that at the time, it made sense for her, but acknowledge that the culture wasn't the healthiest. But she wrote it like it was all normal, like there was nothing really wrong with Nunno: he said he had not realized. If she had been specifically asked by a reporter in an interview, I could understand things like that coming out because she wouldn't have had time to think of it. She had had years to process what happened, then the time she spent on the book, but remained seemingly oblivious.

 

[VGThuy]

Regarding Amanar v. Marinescu, honestly, if the AA competition had both compulsories and optionals, then I see the case for Marinescu. I do think she earned her place in the AA, but if Belu wanted an AA medal, then he made the right decision with Amanar. Her optionals AA total in the team competition was the highest and since the AA competition only consisted of optional routines, it'd be sort of nuts not to send Amanar.

That said, none of that excuses any abuse Marinescu went through, obviously.

In 2008, I don't think they had a chance against China's age-ineligible team. They were that far behind. But 2004, to have that crop of gymnasts and still lose because you broke your best athletes and made stupid selections and line-up decisions--that's all on Marta.

I agree with you, but I still think the US team could have been in much better physical and mental shape than they ended up being. Sam Pezcek was only healthy enough to perform bars in prelims. Alicia was not herself at all and looked tired and was barely performing. Even Shawn wasn't as sharp as she was previously that season. Luckily, Nastia woke up by AA and performed the best routines of her life. Even if the Chinese would have still won thanks to the bars rules at the time, I still think they could have been in better shape to give them more of a fight, and to me, that's on Marta and the system.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Absolutely! Just the fact that the camp was secluded away and without easy access to medical care is ridiculous. From the start, the well-being of the gymnasts certainly wasn't a priority.

How about the fact that it was on the Karolyi’s private property, which had to be one of the worst conflicts of interest ever? But the USAG and USOC agreed to it.......

 

[Tesla]

Regarding Amanar v. Marinescu, honestly, if the AA competition had both compulsories and optionals, then I see the case for Marinescu. I do think she earned her place in the AA, but if Belu wanted an AA medal, then he made the right decision with Amanar. Her optionals AA total in the team competition was the highest and since the AA competition only consisted of optional routines, it'd be sort of nuts not to send Amanar.

That said, none of that excuses any abuse Marinescu went through, obviously.



I agree with you, but I still think the US team could have been in much better physical and mental shape than they ended up being. Sam Pezcek was only healthy enough to perform bars in prelims. Alicia was not herself at all and looked tired and was barely performing. Even Shawn wasn't as sharp as she was previously that season. Luckily, Nastia woke up by AA and performed the best routines of her life. Even if the Chinese would have still won thanks to the bars rules at the time, I still think they could have been in better shape to give them more of a fight, and to me, that's on Marta and the system.

And Chelsie Memmel competed with a broken ankle. The Karolyis broke a lot of teams. They got lucky in 2012 and had Simone in 2016.

 

[her grace]

What struck me was that this was a book she wrote. She could very well have left out those parts or at the very least, some details. She could have said she sought a priest because she thought it could be generally a good idea to help Shannon, but that also speaking with Nunno was essential. But no, it took her some time to make up her mind to speak to him.

She could also have explained that at the time, it made sense for her, but acknowledge that the culture wasn't the healthiest. But she wrote it like it was all normal, like there was nothing really wrong with Nunno: he said he had not realized.

Indeed. It's interesting that while reading Claudia Miller's book, she positions herself as Shannon's (sometimes effective) advocate. Then when some of these same incidents are reprised in Shannon's book It's Not About Perfect, Shannon indicates that her mom overstepped and they weren't a big deal.

 

[canbelto]

Indeed. It's interesting that while reading Claudia Miller's book, she positions herself as Shannon's (sometimes effective) advocate. Then when some of these same incidents are reprised in Shannon's book It's Not About Perfect, Shannon indicates that her mom overstepped and they weren't a big deal.

Well when I watched Daniela Silivas interview one thing that struck me was how matter of fact she was about the training: 7 days a week, months without seeing family, mandated haircuts, everything in her life controlled. She didn't seem to mind it. She obviously thinks it was worth it. Other Romanian gymnasts of her era have spoken out very strongly against the abusive training methods.

I think Shannon Miller is just someone with fanatical drive and she probably did not think of Nunno as abusive. That doesn't mean his method would work on other elite gymnasts (and it hasn't, considering his lack of success after Shannon).