Gracie Gold set to return

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Sylvia said:
I thought NBC covered Gracie appropriately in their broadcast today - Tanith just stated that she skated the SP (brief clips were shown) and that she withdrew from the FS -- maybe about 30 seconds total?
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Johnny also wished her well without indulging in rumors. Which proves that even Johnny has more class and some people in this thread.


Quit feeding the trolls people
 
mag said:
What I think the real issue is is this: Gracie is seen by many as overweight. If she had shown up 20 lbs lighter and done the exact same program many critics would be praising her effort, telling her it is okay, she can come back next time. It is repulsive.
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Yeah, and that's one reason why people develop eating disorders in the first place. :(
 
kwanatic said:
My only hope from all of this is that Gracie is taking her performance in stride. It was obvious (to everyone and even herself as she admitted it) that she wasn't exactly trained for this event. I'm thinking they wanted to rip the band aid off and just get out there and compete. Get the experience, re-introduce the feel for competition, and see how she reacted. Knowing where she was in terms of her training and still showing up anyway takes a lot of courage.

The fact that she was wise enough to know going for the FS wasn't good for her mentally is amazing--that shows growth and strength to override your determination/pride/ego or whatever it is and say, "No, this isn't healthy for me." I'm glad she stepped away and on her terms.

I didn't care for her coaches reactions to her performance. They just sat next to her looking awkward. No one patted her on the back or put an arm around her or even seemed to be talking to her after her SP. I just remember Brian's words of encouragement after Evgenia's first few performances back. Brian was right there telling her it was okay, it's a process, commending her for what she did do well...basically encouraging her. I don't know what Gracie's relationship is with her coaches but what we saw in the K&C was not reassuring that she's in the right hands for the task she's undertaking.

Of course only Gracie knows her reasons for competing here but, IMO and it's just my opinion, I think it'd have been better to take this year to get herself together physically, mentally and emotionally before jumping back in the deep end. She'd have been in better shape and her jumps would have been stronger which would have given her the confidence to go out and hopefully have a stronger skate. I get why she chose to compete here...I just hope this performance will be a positive for her and not a setback. It's up to the team around her to make sure she sees it that way.

Lastly, I do wonder if coming back to competition is wise for her given her past struggles. The sport gave her a lot but it also took a lot from her. Going back into a situation that caused you so many problems might not be the best thing considering she's still in the process of healing from the initial damage it caused. Then again, as she's wiser now and can spot those problems, she may be better equipped to handle/manage those things. Still, it's a tall order for anyone. I guess it depends on what she's hoping to get out of coming back. Does she want to be US champion again? Is her goal to be competitive internationally? Is she aiming for 2020? Or is she just here to skate, compete and end her career on her terms?

Either way I support her. She has a long way to go but at least that very first step (the hardest one) is out of the way now.
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I posted earlier that her coaches sat like rocks in the K&C. They made no effort to comfort her, like a pat on the back, for example. May be they were as stunned as the rest of us, but as coaches they needed to summon the ability to comfort and encourage her. It is a natural human instinct to feel empathy for the suffering of others and I wish they had used theirs in that moment.

At this time in particular Gracie needs a compassionate coach who understands and supports her through all the highs and lows.

I remember her interaction with Frank Carroll at the 2016 worlds. There were obvious problems between them, and then Carroll dropped her. I think she may have already had the problems, and that may have made it even worse.

I am sure Gracie is surrounded by many supportive people. That needs to extend into her coaching staff. It is not enough to just be able to land triple jumps. I hope she finds the right person(s) to sit with her in the K&C.
 
blue_idealist said:
Yeah, and that's one reason why people develop eating disorders in the first place. :(
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You can be unprepared or injured and out of shape, but don't you DARE show up "fat"-- and "fat" seems to mean anything other than a petite wafer. Great message.

People were happy to see her return but when it wasn't the comeback they wanted they dissed her. I've said before that fans are way too fickle. Let the skaters be human and have ups and downs.
 
Vash01 said:
but as coaches they needed to summon the ability to comfort and encourage her. It is a natural human instinct to feel empathy for the suffering of others and I wish they had used theirs in that moment.
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I don’t know Gracie, but I don’t think you should assume that she would want comfort in the K&C. Comfort could quite possibly make it impossible to hold her composure. I can tell you that comfort would have been the last thing my dd would have wanted in the K&C after a bad skate. Sit, as close to stone face as possible, and then get the hell out of there ASAP. Skates off and into the car where she could cry in private. Remember that Gracie knew thousand of people were watching on line and on TV. This was not a private moment. Not everyone wants to cry in front of the world.
 
mag said:
I don’t know Gracie, but I don’t think you should assume that she would want comfort in the K&C. Comfort could quite possibly make it impossible to hold her composure. I can tell you that comfort would have been the last thing my dd would have wanted in the K&C after a bad skate. Sit, as close to stone face as possible, and then get the hell out of there ASAP. Skates off and into the car where she could cry in private. Remember that Gracie knew thousand of people were watching on line and on TV. This was not a private moment. Not everyone wants to cry in front of the world.
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It also must be tough for the coaches when it happens. What do you say to a meltdown? How do you react? It's not easy for anyone. Some skaters let their emotions out and wear their hearts on their sleeves while others don't. And coaches just try to respect what the skater wants.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
That is not correct. Her spot was based on past performance, just like every other non-host spot on GP. Since she invoked the "comeback" clause in this case, like for split couples and host spots, there is no GP minimum requirement from any season; the requirement is a 1st-6th placement at Worlds in the last 10 years.

As a comeback skater, she was guaranteed nothing except "priority consideration" for up to two spots. The Russian Fed did not have to choose her; no Federation was obligated to choose her.
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There is not issue with WHY she received the spot, even with her condition. She earned it. Yes, there are no official tech minimums, not legally, but there is such thing as "reasonable expectations" for the level of performance for a person who is invited, as you said and as reality is, based on past results/standings.

Those past results/standings for Gracie were quite high. The assumption is that if a Top Professional is invited and ACCEPTS to "perform", even if it is a "comeback after a problem", then he/she has enough reasoning and logic to understand he/she needs to be at least at a reasonable minimum level to match the field, or to at least have minimum basics.

If, for example, Placido Domingo had serious voice issues and took time off from performing, and a year later received an invitation to sing at La Scala and accepted, the La Scala management expects him to be able to sing if he accepted, or to be reasonable and decline in a timely matter if he can't regain his voice... Such invitation is an "avance" credit in hope that the invitee will recover and will meet at least minimum expectations, but if he does not after trying to, he will let them know he can't meet the obligations.

I just can't picture Domingo showing up at La Scala on the day of the performance in a questionable condition, knowing in advance that MOST likely than not, he will not be able to sing at least with minimal expected quality..

What Gracie did is irresponsible.
 
Tinami Amori said:
If, for example, Placido Domingo had serious voice issues and took time off from performing, and a year later received an invitation to sing at La Scala and accepted, the La Scala management expects him to be able to sing if he accepted, or to be reasonable and decline in a timely matter if he can't regain his voice... Such invitation is an "avance" credit in hope that the invitee will recover and will meet at least minimum expectations, but if he does not after trying to, he will let them know he can't meet the obligations.
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That is not a valid analogy, IMO. If someone earned a spot to compete in Placido Domingo's "Operalia," then there is no obligation to be in any shape for the competition, and a singer who was coming back from voice issues, woke up that morning being indisposed, etc. would have every right to compete. Of course, they would receive the same criticism that Gracie Gold is receiving.

And that's not even correct for Placido Domingo going onstage to sing in front of customers who are paying for a performance, not a competition. If he were indisposed, but decided to sing, someone from Management/Stage Management would appear before the curtain and announce that Placido Domingo -- or Jonas Kaufmann or Roberto Alagna, as actually happened so far since the Met opened its season this year -- has a cold/is indisposed/etc. but has graciously agreed to sing, and ask for [the audience's] understanding and indulgence. Twice this week I don't think there was a pre-show announcement for Mariusz Kwiecien, who sang only Act I of "The Pearl Fishers" and then was replaced by Alexander Birch Elliott, who sounded great over the airwaves, and is a Barihunk to boot.

And even at her best, internationally, Gold was closer to Kwiecien than Domingo, and more like the Ulrika than the Amelia, especially in that field, although being Kwiecien is nothing to sneeze at.
 
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Unfortunately one of the most common side affects to anti-depression/anxiety medication is weight gain. I have no idea what form of treatment Gracie has received, and I am certainly not implying that she is or has been medicated, but it can be a factor and is even further reason for us not to judge.

Thanks for the "boob humor".
 
Tinami Amori said:
There is not issue with WHY she received the spot, even with her condition. She earned it. Yes, there are no official tech minimums, not legally, but there is such thing as "reasonable expectations" for the level of performance for a person who is invited, as you said and as reality is, based on past results/standings.

Those past results/standings for Gracie were quite high. The assumption is that if a Top Professional is invited and ACCEPTS to "perform", even if it is a "comeback after a problem", then he/she has enough reasoning and logic to understand he/she needs to be at least at a reasonable minimum level to match the field, or to at least have minimum basics.
...

What Gracie did is irresponsible.
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Competing after she'd realized it could be detrimental to her health would have been irresponsible. Gracie did the right thing.

The comeback skater provision means that sometimes there will be skaters who are not going to be competitive. It was the same when Johnny Weir did Rostelecom in 2012, finished dead last in the SP with poor TES, and promptly withdrew. I hope Gracie will have a more successful comeback.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
That is not a valid analogy, IMO. If someone earned a spot to compete in Placido Domingo's "Operalia," then there is no obligation to be in any shape for the competition, and a singer who was coming back from voice issues, woke up that morning being indisposed, etc. would have every right to compete.
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I don't believe that Operalia organizers are paying for participants' tickets, hotel and stay... So if they come unprepared, it is their own expense.

kwanfan1818 said:
And that's not even correct for Placido Domingo going onstage to sing in front of customers who are paying for a performance, not a competition.
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Audience are paying for the tickets at GP event, where participants are expected to have a certain level/quality of skating. Organizers are selling these tickets to compensate for the expenses, part of which are tickets and hotels for the competitors.

If the invitees to GP events paid for their own tickets/hotels/miscl expenses, or if their Feds did, that would be another story. If money are spent on you, you must deliver the minimum expected, or not come.

I am sure we will not agree on this... :lol:
 
coppertop1 said:
You can be unprepared or injured and out of shape, but don't you DARE show up "fat"-- and "fat" seems to mean anything other than a petite wafer. Great message.
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Fat is equivalent to unprepared and out of shape.

And give me a break your petition wafer example. Many of the top female skaters aren’t petite wafers but they are FIT.
 
coppertop1 said:
You can be unprepared or injured and out of shape, but don't you DARE show up "fat"-- and "fat" seems to mean anything other than a petite wafer. Great message.
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I don't believe that anyone mentioned her weight... "Out of shape" means not athletically ready.

coppertop1 said:
People were happy to see her return but when it wasn't the comeback they wanted they dissed her. I've said before that fans are way too fickle. Let the skaters be human and have ups and downs.
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A comeback for an Elite Skater does set some minimal expectations. It is a "comeback" to competition, not a "comeback" on the ice, where it would be great just to see her just in skates gliding..
 
mag said:
I don’t know Gracie, but I don’t think you should assume that she would want comfort in the K&C. Comfort could quite possibly make it impossible to hold her composure. I can tell you that comfort would have been the last thing my dd would have wanted in the K&C after a bad skate. Sit, as close to stone face as possible, and then get the hell out of there ASAP. Skates off and into the car where she could cry in private. Remember that Gracie knew thousand of people were watching on line and on TV. This was not a private moment. Not everyone wants to cry in front of the world.
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In 2016-2017, there was a notion around skating social media that Gracie just needed a coach who would hug her. It was absolutely absurd. A few posters, myself included, suggested that a lot more was going on than a skater who needed a hug. Frank Carroll suggested that she might be depressed and was crucified as insensitive and posters blamed him for her mental state--for lack of hugs or whatever. (Perhaps Frank should not have publicly speculated, but turns out he was not wrong).When she announced she was going to Marina, posters thought that would solve all of her issues because Marina would presumably be affectionate with her.

Essentially, figure skating fandom has people who are under the impression that hugs will cure depression and anxiety. So why not bring back that idea now that Gracie is back.

I will say that is not as bad as the posters elsewhere who insisted that changing her hairstyle for competitions would have fixed it all.
 
So would someone give us the nutshell version of what TSL said?
 
Yazmeen said:
So would someone give us the nutshell version of what TSL said?
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Lease didn't go into detail, but he talked about how one of her coaches (I think it's Vincent Restencourt) has alot of red flags and a "legal history" in France that can be confirmed by searching French legal records.
 
Back in the day, friends of mine organised a group booking for Phantom Of the Opera.

When they bought tickets, the show's website advertised that a certain star would be performing as the Phantom that particular day.

Prior to the performance however, there was an announcement that he wouldn't be on, and that such-and-such would be playing the role instead.

I am sure the groans of disappointment would have been loud enough for the company to hear from behind the curtain.

That being said, with all of the make-up and prosthetics the Phantom wears, if there hadn't been an announcement, a lot of folks probably wouldn't have known any better.

My friends however, felt a bit guilty for weeks after, for making us cough up $100 each for a ticket.
 
The coaching situation doesn't sound like it's what she needs. Definitely not helpful. I thought they had some interesting points about trying to do her old SP format rather than rebuilding like Polina Edmunds did. They mentioned that Gracie hadn't even done any shows. I saw a profile about Kaetlyn Osmond and Ravi Walia had Kaetlyn perform in shows as a way to rebuild her confidence. Perhaps more experienced coaching could help? And give her time to rebuild. The rest of the season doesn't matter. Gracie needs to be healthy. She doesn't owe people anything.
 
@Yazmeen @eternitygoddess From what they said about Vincent:
  • The reason he's not coaching in France is because he has some sort of extensive legal history there
  • He has no legal history in the US, but apparently his problems are an open secret with stories about him circulating
  • He moves rinks frequently is because he's hungry for success
  • (Also maybe because as soon as the rink or parents at the rink he's at catches wind of the rumors about him he's forced to move)
  • His personal life off the ice is messy
Again, these are all allegations and I have no idea if it's true. Personally I haven't heard any rumors, but I haven't been in the right places.
 
Or maybe Vincent sent them 300 nasty texts and made them cry in the bathroom :wuzrobbed

But if those are the allegations that TSL made in its latest episode, then damn, I hope they have a reliable source and/or good lawyers. If any of that is wrong they may have just committed some serious defamation.
 
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