From Russia With Love [#40]: Summer 2021 & into the Olympic season

[Karen-W]

I just heard that episode. Lease (in his own voice; not “Spletnikov” this time) made a good point about the timing in December - that once the test result came in, she shouldn’t have been named to the Olympic team.

Yes, but it doesn't change that she WAS, and it's hard to argue with that.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Since Kamila has already competed a substitute cannot be called in (a la Vincent Zhou).

That is not the rule. A Team cannot replace an athlete in the TE who has already competed in a TE segment, unless it was one of the declared exchanges (and those athletes have to be listed), which is only possible if there is more than one individual competitor in that discipline.

7. Clarification of “Replacement” versus “Exchange” of a Skater/Couple
As per the above explanations, a Skater’s/Couple’s “replacement“ is a complete withdrawal of an original entered Skater/Couple due to medical reasons who will be replaced with a substitute Skater/Couple into the same position as the withdrawn Skater/Couple via the IOC Late Athletes Replacement Policy (LAR). A replaced (withdrawn) Skater/Couple will have to return the accreditation, cannot stay any longer in the Olympic Village and is to be considered as an “inactive withdrawn athlete”. Such a replacement is final.

The IOC's Late Replacement Policy supercedes the ISU's replacement policy:
https://www.fil-luge.org/cdn/uploads/2021-08-24-ioc-joint-policy-late-athlete-replacement-final.pdf

This requires a medical certificate attached to the application, which has to be filed and approved (by the IOC) before the Team Leaders meeting for the sport/discipline.

Presumably Zhou could have been replaced in the individual event because of a medical condition; however, logistically, this was impossible because of the cv travel/entry/testing protocols. It might have been a different story in one of the later disciplines, for cv or injury/other illness reasons.

 

[Karen-W]

That is not the rule. A Team cannot replace an athlete in the TE who has already competed in a TE segment, unless it was one of the declared exchanges (and those athletes have to be listed), which is only possible if there is more than one individual competitor in that discipline.



The IOC's Late Replacement Policy supercedes the ISU's replacement policy:
https://www.fil-luge.org/cdn/uploads/2021-08-24-ioc-joint-policy-late-athlete-replacement-final.pdf

This requires a medical certificate attached to the application, which has to be filed and approved (by the IOC) before the Team Leaders meeting for the sport/discipline.

Presumably Zhou could have been replaced in the individual event because of a medical condition; however, logistically, this was impossible because of the cv travel/entry/testing protocols. It might have been a different story in one of the later disciplines, for cv or injury/other illness reasons.

The other reason Zhou couldn't have been replaced is because the Men's SP draw had already occurred by the time his positive test became known.

 

[Xela M]

Wow. I'm very late to this, but is that right that Russia knew Valieva tested positive back in December?!?! Why was she skating both segments of the team event?! Surely they knew that would cause a massive issue?!?

Bring Tuk to the Olympics please!!!!!

 

[Karen-W]

Wow. I'm very late to this, but is that right that Russia knew Valieva tested positive back in December?!?! Why was she skating both segments of the team event?! Surely they knew that would cause a massive issue?!?

Bring Tuk to the Olympics please!!!!!

No, the test occurred in December. They would have, in most all likelihood, had the A sample results back sometime around Europeans or a bit before. They would have asked for the B sample to be tested and waited, hoping the results came back negative. So, they named her to the team, even though they knew there was a potential positive doping result for her.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The other reason Zhou couldn't have been replaced is because the Men's SP draw had already occurred by the time his positive test became known.

Thank you for the correction: I thought the results were before the discipline's Team Leaders meeting, but that the results were only made public after.

 

[Xela M]

No, the test occurred in December. They would have, in most all likelihood, had the A sample results back sometime around Europeans or a bit before. They would have asked for the B sample to be tested and waited, hoping the results came back negative. So, they named her to the team, even though they knew there was a potential positive doping result for her.

That's crazy. Why would they do this?! So reckless (in my very layman's view).

Completely devastated for Valieva, but also for Liza who should have been at her first Olympics and for M&G who (along with Valieva) won Russia the Team Gold. Feel so sorry for them all.

Russian Fed and Eteri/doctors to blame (as usual) it appears

 

[Xela M]

Did ROC somehow hire Saul Goodman (from "Breaking Bad" and "Better Call Saul") to solve this situation or how is this even possibly turning into a positive direction?

More like Walter White...

 

[Judy]

I just heard that episode. Lease (in his own voice; not “Spletnikov” this time) made a good point about the timing in December - that once the test result came in, she shouldn’t have been named to the Olympic team.

Agreed. Why would it take that long for a result though? I know the testing and getting results is faster at the Olympics but I’m confused about this one.

 

[Bouffantrex]

Agreed. Why would it take that long for a result though? I know the testing and getting results is faster at the Olympics but I’m confused about this one.

Seems like corruption and a cover up to me.

 

[Xela M]

Watching the Russian live feed for men’s free skate and they said that the latest is that Valieva is unlikely to be disqualified and that she was allowed to appear on practice ice

 

[RoseRed]

Watching the Russian live feed for men’s free skate and they said that the latest is that Valieva is unlikely to be disqualified and that she was allowed to appear on practice ice

Meanwhile NBC just confirmed that she failed a doping test and was positive for trimetazidine.

 

[Xela M]

Meanwhile NBC just confirmed that she failed a doping test and was positive for trimetazidine.

So odd, they just said that the latest indications were positive and that she was told she was allowed to official practices and most likely will be allowed to compete in the individual event

 

[screech]

CBC reporter Devin Heroux was at the latest IOC press conference (not only figure skating focused) about 45 minutes ago and when asked, the IOC rep just repeatedly said that it's an ongoing legal issue and they cannot comment.
Devin has been really good about posting updates on his twitter.

So from the different news sources we're getting all variations of "she's disqualified" and "she's fine to compete" and "we don't know what's going on."

 

[Karen-W]

They're not going to block her from practicing on official ice until and unless she is officially DQed. They're still trying to figure it out. The Russian media know no more than the rest of the world's media - they're just trying to spin this as hopeful/beneficial to their skater as possible.

 

[mjb52]

He said this: "I will not comment on all the rumors that were yesterday and that will still appear. We have a situation that needs advice. As for the rumors about doping, this is speculation.

In addition, I want to say that ITA and CAS are responsible for testing at the Olympics . I can’t say anything more, unfortunately,” Adams said at an IOC briefing."

To me the latter part is almost like he is trying to hint that it isn't a doping issue, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, since of course I would rather it not be.

 

[skatefan02]

He said this: "I will not comment on all the rumors that were yesterday and that will still appear. We have a situation that needs advice. As for the rumors about doping, this is speculation.

In addition, I want to say that ITA and CAS are responsible for testing at the Olympics . I can’t say anything more, unfortunately,” Adams said at an IOC briefing."

To me the latter part is almost like he is trying to hint that it isn't a doping issue, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, since of course I would rather it not be.

Per matchtv: Kamila was notified last night that restrictions were lifted, most likely that means she can go back training.

Per Russian media, there’s a fight happening related to TL13 which is dated Jan 2021.

“Whenever a laboratory detects TMZ on the initial urine sample, it must test for the presence of the non-prohibited Lomerizine and it’s specific metabolite M6 and 1-bis”

 

[Vash01]

That's crazy. Why would they do this?! So reckless (in my very layman's view).

Completely devastated for Valieva, but also for Liza who should have been at her first Olympics and for M&G who (along with Valieva) won Russia the Team Gold. Feel so sorry for them all.

Russian Fed and Eteri/doctors to blame (as usual) it appears

Wait until the facts are known, before assigning blame.

 

[mjb52]

Per matchtv: Kamila was notified last night that restrictions were lifted, most likely that means she can go back training.

Per Russian media, there’s a fight happening related to TL13 which is dated Jan 2021.

“Whenever a laboratory detects TMZ on the initial urine sample, it must test for the presence of the non-prohibited Lomerizine and it’s specific metabolite M6 and 1-bis”

Think this explains more maybe?: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/tl13_trimetazidine.pdf

 

[Amantide]

They're not going to block her from practicing on official ice until and unless she is officially DQed. They're still trying to figure it out. The Russian media know no more than the rest of the world's media - they're just trying to spin this as hopeful/beneficial to their skater as possible.

I don't know how much they know or don't know. Probably you are right.
However, I'd like to point out that it was the "Russian media" who broke the news, the rumors or whatever this is.

 

[Vash01]

Kamila was on the practice ice today (actually next day morning in China). Does that mean anything? They may still bar her from competing at these Olympics, right?
Cant imagine what she must be feeling.

 

[Amantide]

Kamila was on the practice ice today (actually next day morning in China). Does that mean anything? They may still bar her from competing at these Olympics, right?
Cant imagine what she must be feeling.

I think so. As @Karen-W said, they're not going to block her from practicing until when/if it's official.

 

[attyfan]

IMO, Kamila should be examined by a qualified cardiologist before she is allowed to practice. The drug at issue is one legitimately prescribed for heart conditions (such as angina). but its effects on an otherwise healthy heart -- in a teenager --- should be ascertained before her heart is strained (phyisically) any further.

 

[Vash01]

Think this explains more maybe?: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/tl13_trimetazidine.pdf

Interesting info. We don't know if KV falls in that category.

 

[Karen-W]

Per matchtv: Kamila was notified last night that restrictions were lifted, most likely that means she can go back training.

Per Russian media, there’s a fight happening related to TL13 which is dated Jan 2021.

“Whenever a laboratory detects TMZ on the initial urine sample, it must test for the presence of the non-prohibited Lomerizine and it’s specific metabolite M6 and 1-bis”

Think this explains more maybe?: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/tl13_trimetazidine.pdf

Wonder if they could be giving her both, trying to mask the presence of the banned substance...

 

[Judy]

Think this explains more maybe?: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/tl13_trimetazidine.pdf

The World Anti-Doping Agency wishes to draw the attention of the Laboratories to the following remarks and instructions on the analysis and reporting of trimetazidine (TMZ).
The detection of TMZ [1-(2,3,4-trimethoxybenzyl)piperazine] in urine may result from the metabolism of lomerizine [1-[bis(4-fluorophenyl)methyl-4-(2,3,4-trimethoxybenzyl)piperazine], a permitted drug used for the treatment of migraine.1,

 

[barbarafan]

Think this explains more maybe?: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/tl13_trimetazidine.pdf

Sure it does. They can get away with giving her trimetazidine if they also give her the migraine medication as well. It cannot be proved on the test that the results are not from the migraine medication. So when she is questioned about taking the migraine drug she either has to lie or say she has never knowingly taken either drug and does not have migraines. If she lies they own her for life.

 

[soogar]

You're freaking here for Team Canada to get bronze in these circumstances??? That's beyond tragic.
U think team Canada actually want this medal, or team US is excited about this asterisk gold??

Why wouldn't they be? Cheating (if proven) is cheating. Conversely why would Russia be so eager to keep an asterisk gold.

 

[Primorskaya]

Agreed. Why would it take that long for a result though? I know the testing and getting results is faster at the Olympics but I’m confused about this one.

That's one of the many questions. At first I thought it was iffy but then, the explanation could be that the first test came back positive, so they did another one as apparently is the norm, the result of which became known only yesterday. It would scan with the usual processing time of 2-3 weeks per test. It depends on who's doing and processing the tests though. If it's all done in Russia it could easily be a cover-up, if it's done by a neutral intermediary, it's less likely.

 

[soogar]

The World Anti-Doping Agency wishes to draw the attention of the Laboratories to the following remarks and instructions on the analysis and reporting of trimetazidine (TMZ).
The detection of TMZ [1-(2,3,4-trimethoxybenzyl)piperazine] in urine may result from the metabolism of lomerizine [1-[bis(4-fluorophenyl)methyl-4-(2,3,4-trimethoxybenzyl)piperazine], a permitted drug used for the treatment of migraine.1,

I question why a 15 year old needs migraine medicine.