From Russia With Love [#39]: Into Winter 2021

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rfisher

Let the skating begin
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Vaccines are freely available in shopping centres in Moscow.
Given Tiff has no antibodies 7 months later, it would need to be a bi-annual vaccination unless the vaccine antibodies last longer.
We won't know for a while. One thing about having the ***** is the variability of exposure. A mild case may differ from a more severe case. I'd get the vaccine if I were her. Then she can come visit her Mama this summer.
 

Frau Muller

Proud Puerto Rican-Russkaya!
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Vaccines are freely available in shopping centres in Moscow.
Given Tiff has no antibodies 7 months later, it would need to be a bi-annual vaccination unless the vaccine antibodies last longer.
They’re freely available in Ryazanskaya Oblast...home of my in-law family...and Trusova! :) In-laws received first dose of Sputnik V last week.🎉
 

mjb52

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From what I've read, it's not only about antibodies - the body doesn't produce them constantly b/c it would be wasteful. Once the antibodies fade, the body still has t-cell memory of how to produce them if needed or of how to fight the ***** or something like that. I have no idea if this is correct b/c I'm not super scientific. This is just what I've read here and there.

eta: here's an article that looks like it's on topic: s41577-020-00436-4
 
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RoseRed

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From what I've read, it's not only about antibodies - the body doesn't produce them constantly b/c it would be wasteful. Once the antibodies fade, the body still has t-cell memory of how to produce them if needed or of how to fight the ***** or something like that. I have no idea if this is correct b/c I'm not super scientific. This is just what I've read here and there.

eta: here's an article that looks like it's on topic: s41577-020-00436-4
Yeah, I'm not an expert in immunology either, but from what I understand a negative antibody test doesn't really tell you if you have protection or not. First of all, there are false negatives. And antibodies can decline over time to undetectable levels which does not mean you have no protection left. Immunity is not just maintained by antibodies, but also memory B cells and T cells, which are the ones key to long-term immunity.

I don't think we know the full picture of long-term immunity for this yet, because it's still new. And I would still get the vaccine regardless. But I wouldn't assume that no detectable antibodies means no immunity.
 

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
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Yeah, I'm not an expert in immunology either, but from what I understand a negative antibody test doesn't really tell you if you have protection or not. First of all, there are false negatives. And antibodies can decline over time to undetectable levels which does not mean you have no protection left. Immunity is not just maintained by antibodies, but also memory B cells and T cells, which are the ones key to long-term immunity.

I don't think we know the full picture of long-term immunity for this yet, because it's still new. And I would still get the vaccine regardless. But I wouldn't assume that no detectable antibodies means no immunity.

Actually, that's made me question as to whether the vaccines stimulate the B and T cells or just create antibodies?
 

Sylvia

Off season is club competition season!
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Olga Ermolina's interview with Tamara Moskvina (March 21):
From the end:
In short, when there is someone to look at, to exchange opinions, it is more fun to work in a team. It is only artists alone who paint well. Or composers create. And for couples, of course, it's more fun to skate together. Moreover, guys of the same age have been friends all their lives. And the trainers are more fun. Because when one pair is working on an element, we switch to another. We hope everything goes well for both couples [B/K & M/G] in Stockholm.
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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Actually, that's made me question as to whether the vaccines stimulate the B and T cells or just create antibodies?
It depends on the formulation. You can do things to try to skew for the particular kind of response you want to to a pathogen depending on what cells typically deal with it (there are different kinds of helper T cells and the different kinds are better at getting rid of different types of pathogens. It’s a complicated, time-consuming assay to run, but you can actually look at the ratios of the different kinds of T cells fighting a particular pathogen).

Immunologic memory is a complicated topic and we’re still far from entirely understanding it. Screening for antibodies is a fairly easy assay to run, but circulating antibodies aren’t close to the full picture.
 

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
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It depends on the formulation. You can do things to try to skew for the particular kind of response you want to to a pathogen depending on what cells typically deal with it (there are different kinds of helper T cells and the different kinds are better at getting rid of different types of pathogens. It’s a complicated, time-consuming assay to run, but you can actually look at the ratios of the different kinds of T cells fighting a particular pathogen).

Immunologic memory is a complicated topic and we’re still far from entirely understanding it. Screening for antibodies is a fairly easy assay to run, but circulating antibodies aren’t close to the full picture.

This all sounds familiar when I think back to my friend in the 80s who was HIV positive. He was obsessed with his helper T-cell count. He'd watched all of this friends die really quickly and was doing his best not to follow them.
It was such a scary time. He had one friend that died as he was being diagnosed. He was sent for an x-ray and died as he sat up after the x-ray. Aids was just awful in the 80s, a real death sentence.
 

alexikeguchi

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Actually, that's made me question as to whether the vaccines stimulate the B and T cells or just create antibodies?
They do stimulate T lymphocytes which then promotes further expansion of T and B cells, the latter of which produces antibodies. In the phase I vaccine trials where there were only a couple hundred patients at most, the immunologists were able to do much more detailed measurements and assays of T cell activity and found that it remains fairly robust even after antibody levels drop. This paper evaluated patients who had PCR confirmed infection rather than vaccination, but the results are illustrative. The takeaway message from the abstract is:

"Using interferon-γ ELISpot, we observed that 78% of PCR-positive volunteers with undetectable antibodies showed T cell immunity against SARS-CoV-2. We observed a similar frequency (80%) of T-cell immunity in convalescent donors with strong antibody responses but did not detect immunity in negative controls. We concluded that, in convalescent patients with undetectable SARS-CoV-2 IgG, immunity may be mediated through T cells."

This immunity will fade in time as well, hence the need for boosters/annual vaccination, but T cell immunity remains protective for longer than antibodies are detectable.
 

Ruby999

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Boikova/Kozlovskii changed their SP to Merry Go Round of Life (from Howl’s Moving Castle soundtrack) by Joe Hisaishi

That sounds really intriguing and I loved that film! Having said that, I personally wish they’d changed their FS, which is good but recycled rather than their SP, which I thought had a beautiful understated drama to it.
 

Kateri

void beast
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That sounds really intriguing and I loved that film! Having said that, I personally wish they’d changed their FS, which is good but recycled rather than their SP, which I thought had a beautiful understated drama to it.
Exactly my thoughts too!
 

Bigbird

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Tiff had YKW in July/August last year.
She had an antibody test this week and she has precisely zero antibodies :cry:
It doesn't look like it has offered her any lasting protection.

So it would seem that the fact that the skaters have already had YKW is neither here nor there, they are still vulnerable.
Deleted.
 

Frau Muller

Proud Puerto Rican-Russkaya!
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Here’s Russia One’s advertisement for its televised coverage of Worlds. Very cute concept - Yagudin, on his way to the airport, telephones Tarasova for her tips on who-to-follow. Of course, all skaters get their plugs!

 

Frau Muller

Proud Puerto Rican-Russkaya!
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Channel One is slowly uploading little news reports but I cannot continue to follow, as I’m on deadlines for work, since I’m taking off three days, beginning Wednesday. (Ha ha!)

I’d suggest that those interested periodically check the YouTube site of Channel One, written thus - Первый канал . Link in my previous post (the advertisement with Yagudin heading off to the airport).
 

Scott512

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Channel One is slowly uploading little news reports but I cannot continue to follow, as I’m on deadlines for work, since I’m taking off three days, beginning Wednesday. (Ha ha!)

I’d suggest that those interested periodically check the YouTube site of Channel One, written thus - Первый канал . Link in my previous post (the advertisement with Yagudin heading off to the airport).
I'm a little concerned about Anna. Reports are
She did not practice well today. The podium really is up for grabs.
 

Frau Muller

Proud Puerto Rican-Russkaya!
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I'm a little concerned about Anna. Reports are
She did not practice well today. The podium really is up for grabs.
It seems that way...and Trusova exceeded expectations. Rika and Liza strong. Hope that Bradie’s also doing well. It’s just the first day of practices.
 
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