Edited: Roseanne reboot - BOOTED

[PeterG]

The only new question that was answered was to the question of whether we still had some standards of decency left. For a while, it felt like people truly were empowered to say and do whatever it is that they wanted. So this is not a "new" normal but going back to what life was like before this new environment.

I hope you're right.

And I have to ask, what are you saying with your comment "Land of the free and the home of the brave and all"?

Americans love saying that they're the best country in the world. Americans love their flag, they love their national anthem (which ends with the line we are discussing). America gets all celebratory when a physically, and possibly mentally, ill senior says something idiotic and offensive is thrown on the bonfire. This story is going to go on and on and on. If only as much energy by Americans was aimed towards eliminating murderous racism instead of idiotic, mis-guided tweets.

 

[ballettmaus]

Because even Roseanne knows the racist history of African-Americans (and Africans in general) being portrayed as apes, monkeys, sub-human, animals, etc. and she thinks by saying she thought Jarrett was of another dark-skinned race, then her comment comparing Jarrett to an ape would not be seen in that same context.

But she didn't compare Jarrett to "just" an ape. She said like the "Muslim Brotherhood and Planet of the Apes" had a baby.

 

[VGThuy]

Americans love saying that they're the best country in the world. Americans love their flag, they love their national anthem (which ends with the line we are discussing). America gets all celebratory when a physically, and possibly mentally, ill senior says something idiotic and offensive is thrown on the bonfire. This story is going to go on and on and on. If only as much energy by Americans was aimed towards eliminating murderous racism instead of idiotic, mis-guided tweets.

I think Americans have expended a lot of energy towards trying to change things when it comes to police brutality and many are tirelessly working to reform the criminal justice system in many ways. The difference is ABC actually did something about it because their profits are accountable to the people and there are people who are celebrating and others who think Roseanne was a victim by the liberal elite. This is the way these conversations go. Many law enforcement offices and prosecutor's offices aren't beholden to the people in the same way to expect that sort of swift action and it usually takes a lot more to get them to act (like the many protests that we've seen and tireless campaigns and calls to action).

I sort of take issue with the way you're downplaying what Roseanne did and trying to paint her as a victim her while taking those people to task for not caring about the public police killings of blacks. I get your a fan of hers, but I really don't believe that is a fair comparison. Nobody eliminated Roseanne's racism the way you expect Americans to eliminate murderous racism. ABC just fired her from her job. She's still going to Tweet away to her heart's content. I mean if people can't seek joy in any form of justice being dealt (in their perspective) because the person who did the wrongdoing didn't murder somebody, then nobody should take any joy in any sort of victory. Many of the people celebrating Roseanne being fired are noted black people who also spend a lot of time talking about racial injustice in many different forms. Are they wrong for celebrating Roseanne being fired even if some of them expressed some sympathy to the crew? Many of them took issue with her being given a show in the first place. If you want to feel sorry for the crew, then nobody is to blame but Roseanne herself. Her actions cost them their jobs.

Roseanne is an adult woman who has chosen to live her life in a certain way and to express herself in a certain way. I'm not going to give her a free pass or baby her just because she's may be a physically ailing elder. As for her mental issues, she's still responsible for her actions as she chose to rebuke proper treatment. If she still harbors those beliefs while seeking treatment, then we can say those are her beliefs and not just dismiss it as "crazy grandma with a weak knee being racist again...isn't she endearing?" It's not like she's given people the same sort of consideration who don't have it as easy as she does.

 

[snoopy]

Americans love saying that they're the best country in the world. Americans love their flag, they love their national anthem (which ends with the line we are discussing). America gets all celebratory when a physically, and possibly mentally, ill senior says something idiotic and offensive is thrown on the bonfire. This story is going to go on and on and on. If only as much energy by Americans was aimed towards eliminating murderous racism instead of idiotic, mis-guided tweets.

I think Americans have put FAR MORE energy into reducing "murderous racism" than Roseanne's tweets. You are conflating the media with "Americans". And even the media has covered "murderous racism" heavily. Roseanne is just the story du jour.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Lena Dunham & Mindy Kaling tweeted she wants to write a new series with all the characters and especially Darlenes cool kids.

Emma who plays Harris tweeted back, "I'm in."

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...-to-lena-dunhams-pitch-for-spinoff-im-in.html

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/could-...indy-kaling-lena-dunham-will-write-it-9251687

 

[PeterG]

I think Americans have expended a lot of energy towards trying to change things when it comes to police brutality and many are tirelessly working to reform the criminal justice system in many ways.

I think Americans have put FAR MORE energy into reducing "murderous racism" than Roseanne's tweets. You are conflating the media with "Americans". And even the media has covered "murderous racism" heavily. Roseanne is just the story du jour.

Americans, like those in any democratic society, have the power to elect people who either eliminate or enforce racism. We'll see what Americans are about these days with the elections in November. I'm hopeful, but we'll see. Not that Canada and other countries aren't struggling with similar issues. Canadians are subtler with racism, which is possibly worse because it's either more difficult to see or absorb, or it's subtleties enable people to overlook that racism is actually taking place. America is held to different standards than other countries because as far as I'm aware, no other countries brag that "we're #1!!!" as loudly and consistently as Americans do. That welcomes others to hold them to such high standards.

 

[aliceanne]

I enjoyed "Roseanne" in the early years, but in later years it jumped the shark, as did Roseanne herself around the time she hooked up with Tom Arnold.

The last time I saw John Goodman, he was on Craig Ferguson's show, and Goodman seemed like a shell of his former self both mentally and physically. I think I'll pass on the reboot.

 

[VGThuy]

So this is just a blanket attack on Americans, then. Like I said, Americans are not a homogenious population and have wildly different opinions on things. You make it sound like Americans came together and formed a 90-100% consensus to celebrate Roseanne’s firing which is not the case. I bet the percentage of people in a random poll who think Roseanne was treated unfairly would be similar to the number who think many of the police were justified in their shootings and killings. Also, Americans can’t just vote to end racism. The only way to combat that is to continue to learn and educate and hope each generation gets better.

 

[PeterG]

So this is just a blanket attack on Americans, then. Like I said, Americans are not a homogenious population and have wildly different opinions on things. You make it sound like Americans came together and formed a 90-100% consensus to celebrate Roseanne’s firing which is not the case. I bet the percentage of people in a random poll who think Roseanne was treated unfairly would be similar to the number who think many of the police were justified in their shootings and killings. Also, Americans can’t just vote to end racism. The only way to combat that is to continue to learn and educate and hope each generation gets better.

What I'm saying is that the focus on irresponsible, offensive tweets compared to the focus on racism experienced through incarceration and death is out of whack. And that the repercussions for such wildly varied acts of racism are also out of whack.

 

[manhn]

What I'm saying is that the focus on irresponsible, offensive tweets compared to the focus on racism experienced through incarceration and death is out of whack. And that the repercussions for such wildly varied acts of racism are also out of whack.

It also speaks to what a company like ABC is accountable to and what an organization like a police force is accountable to. That is why I personally try to consciously choose where I spend my money on. What I watch on tv (give Splitting Up Together a chance!), where I go during my holidays. I have no clue what to do when it comes to police brutality.

But the response by the public is different. Out of police brutality arose a political movement, protests, sometimes leading to violence. The public reaction to a tweet is not near the same. Perhaps because ABC did something in a way police organizations and other governmental agencies have been slow to follow.

 

[ballettmaus]

If only as much energy by Americans was aimed towards eliminating murderous racism instead of idiotic, mis-guided tweets.

Idiotic, misguided tweets incite violence and hatred and lead to murderous racism.

In our day and age when so much of our lives is happening on social media and through words, I find it surprising how many people dismiss the power of words. Words can hurt, they can teach people to hate, encourage violence, drive people to kill or to kill themselves and they can lead to and start wars. In my opinion, there's hardly anything more powerful than words.

 

[VGThuy]

But the response by the public is different. Out of police brutality arose a political movement, protests, sometimes leading to violence. The public reaction to a tweet is not near the same. Perhaps because ABC did something in a way police organizations and other governmental agencies have been slow to follow.

Exactly. That’s why I’m seriously confused by PeterG’s posts. People are working to enact social change and the issue of unequal treatment of POC (especially blacks and Latinos) have been written and spoken about extensively and have motivated many orgs and activists and legal professionals to work to change things. It’s just not easy because it deals with deep-rooted institutional racism plus people’s varied experience with law enforcement AND having to take down an entire system. If you think it’s easy, then you’re basically demeaning all the work many have done to raise awareness and enact changes. There is nothing on the same scale with the Roseanne tweet which was just an open and shut one-off case that resulted in a firing. The reaction will lead to some memes and celebratory tweets for a few days and then be forgotten about.

PeterG, you’re seriously ignoring very different situations and very different actors who are in charge of dealing out the repercussions. You’re also ignoring the public reaction to both incidents, which I think are similar except people are still going to fight for equal treatment in law enforcement while Roseanne will go back to being a Twitter celebrity. And again, you’re seriously downplaying what Roseanne did to make your point.

 

[Peaches LaTour]

Americans, like those in any democratic society, have the power to elect people who either eliminate or enforce racism. We'll see what Americans are about these days with the elections in November. I'm hopeful, but we'll see. Not that Canada and other countries aren't struggling with similar issues. Canadians are subtler with racism, which is possibly worse because it's either more difficult to see or absorb, or it's subtleties enable people to overlook that racism is actually taking place. America is held to different standards than other countries because as far as I'm aware, no other countries brag that "we're #1!!!" as loudly and consistently as Americans do. That welcomes others to hold them to such high standards.

Wow! I never, ever thought I would live long enough to hear a Canadian admit that they were less than perfect.

You are spot on, Peter, when you say that Canadians are more subtle about their racism & that can be worse due to the reasons you stated.

As for Americans being loud about being #1, my dear Peter, we Americans are loud about everything.

 

[Japanfan]

Wow! I never, ever thought I would live long enough to hear a Canadian admit that they were less than perfect.

Could you post a few posts in which Canadians state they are perfect, please?

 

[berthesghost]

Americans love saying that they're the best country in the world. Americans love their flag, they love their national anthem (which ends with the line we are discussing). America gets all celebratory when a physically, and possibly mentally, ill senior says something idiotic and offensive is thrown on the bonfire. This story is going to go on and on and on. If only as much energy by Americans was aimed towards eliminating murderous racism instead of idiotic, mis-guide tweets.

ugh. This is like watching a tv news clip of a gay pride parade and then going off about how all gays are just drag queens or leather daddies 24/7 and therefore should not be able to adopt. Please stop looking at 4 minutes from a trump rally and then making proclamations on how all Americans are. Let's just start with the flawed claim that Americans celebrate too much a president that didn't even win the popular vote. You do know that means most Americans don't like him, right?

 

[once_upon]

Alas, unless she is a danger to herself or others, no, she cannot be forced into treatment.

I saw an "I support Roseanne" meme posted by a few uber-conservative Facebook friends. I wonder: If Roseanne had said the same thing about a black REPUBLICAN, say Ben Carson, would they/conservatives feel as compelled to support Roseanne? Would they feel the same "oh, it's the snowflake liberals not allowing Roseanne to say stuff because it hurts their feelings" or would they see the terrible racism inherent in comparing a black person to an ape?

Not just ultra right, but my Facebook friends who are regular Republicans posted this meme. And demanding that ABC get rid of hateful nasty bitches on the View. I haven't watched the View in a couple of years, but ABC would cancel migrating were low and they had something to replace it. But the View gets the hatred of Republicans. Anything that they can blame on the View, it gets posted that way. Get rid of the bitches.

 

[clairecloutier]

Robert Samuels has written a moving, if sad, piece for The Washington Post about his own experiences with racists who called him a "monkey."

How It Feels to Be Called a Monkey
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...to-be-called-a-monkey/?utm_term=.65dc57713929

As many know, Robert is a longtime figure skating fan and has written about figure skating for the Post.

 

[tracylynn]

People are now calling for Samantha Bee's show cancelled because of the comment she made about Ivanka Trump. They are saying if her show is not cancelled then that would show the hypocrisy of liberals.

 

[ilovepaydays]

UGH - there’s very few things that irritate me more right now than snowflakes or SJWs. Either from the left or the right - they are the same.

It’s really not that hard to just not watch a show of you don’t like it. Or even find it distasteful or offensive. And really, it’s the ratings = advertising revenue that mainly drives networks to keep or drop TV shows anyway.

 

[MacMadame]

They are saying if her show is not cancelled then that would show the hypocrisy of liberals.

Because false equivalence is people's favorite logical fallacy.

 

[olympic]

The quote I provided was talking specifically about the re-boot.

OK. I thought you were talking about the whole series

 

[Winnipeg]

Could you post a few posts in which Canadians state they are perfect, please?

Agree!

 

[Winnipeg]

People are now calling for Samantha Bee's show cancelled because of the comment she made about Ivanka Trump. They are saying if her show is not cancelled then that would show the hypocrisy of liberals.

I think her comment was crude and a bad reflection of her.

A company has the right to fire an employee if they are not in sync with values - ABC had every right to fire Roseanne regardless of which other companies do or do not follow suit.

I doubt there is any need to feel sorry for Roseanne.........

 

[Peaches LaTour]

Could you post a few posts in which Canadians state they are perfect, please?

This is my personal opinion based on a long lifetime of close interaction with Canadians, in Canada, in the States & overseas.

 

[Peaches LaTour]

Oh, and I should add, my 47 year friendship with my Ontario friend. A friendship that has not always been "endearing" but has endured, none the less.

 

[Japanfan]

This is my personal opinion based on a long lifetime of close interaction with Canadians, in Canada, in the States & overseas.

Well I've certainly never met a fellow Canadian who thinks we are perfect, nor thought so myself (don't even get me started on our 'wonderful' healthcare system).

Many of us do take pride in certain aspects of being Canadian and we are aware that we have certain privileges that Americans do not have (i.e. our healthcare and maternity leave, but those things aren't particularly 'Canadian'). At the same time, we (or me specifically) are aware that there are more job opportunities in the US (for some fields in any case), more choices about the cities where one might like to live, and of course more choices about the climate in which one chooses to live (for a certain segment of the population in any case).

But we are generally far less patriotic than Americans. Whenever we cross the border I am astounded by the number of American flags I see - many fewer flags here. And we do not hold our hands over our hearts when we stand for the national anthem (a practice that is a bit much IMO).

I've also met more than just one or two Americans who take pride in the fact that America is not 'socialist' like we are (but really are not). In general I'd say Americans devote much more energy to national pride and their nation's status as the 'most powerful (hence most important) nation on earth than we do to national pride. Some of us might think about 'being Canadian' when the politicians harp on about it at election time but for the most part, we don't think about it much.

 

[genevieve]

Lena Dunham & Mindy Kaling tweeted she wants to write a new series with all the characters and especially Darlenes cool kids.

Emma who plays Harris tweeted back, "I'm in."

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...-to-lena-dunhams-pitch-for-spinoff-im-in.html

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/could-...indy-kaling-lena-dunham-will-write-it-9251687

Oh FFS, all this issue needs is some Lena Dunham .... said no one ever.

 

[taf2002]

This happened years ago but one of DH's friends was fired from Amer Airlines for a racist comment in the office. When it happened DH & I had a conversation about racism. He claimed that the friend isn't racist - that in an off-guard moment he was said something unwise. My stance was & is that it's not enough that you're PC in public - if those thoughts are in your head they are prone to come out publically. You have to change your thinking.

That's easier to say than done. It's possible only if you fight bias in yourself every.single.time those thoughts flicker thru your mind. You have to remind yourself that the differences in people are just their outsides, not necessarily their character or their worth. It's ok to hate people who harm others like Nazis or Al Qaeda or facists but not someone just for their skin color.

 

[Winnipeg]

I must admit, I have not met many Canadians who think they are perfect. Go figure.

Oh well, I guess impressions are made based on the people you meet and associate with a particular culture?

 

[VGThuy]

Honestly, I think we should stop this discussion while we're ahead, especially since it started with a Canadian critiquing Americans generally and talking about how Americans are fair game because they open ourselves up to criticism. I think some have held their tongue.