Craig Simpson & Jamie Sale

[tony]

Vagabond and a whole bunch of others. Somehow, Sale's sad mental meltdown is related to her not being as good of a skater as B&S in SLC and thus her gold should be revoked? What the ****. It's not related. You can think she wasn't as good as B&S and that her current mental state is sad. You can think that S&P deserved the gold and that her current mental state is sad.

I don't gather that from the posts and I think that's your interpretation being all twisted up. From what I understood, there was a post earlier in the thread suggesting Canadians on Twitter were telling her to give up her gold medal over her recent actions, probably by extension not representing Canada well or whatever else. But why people here insist on looking at Twitter 'fandom' is still beyond me.

How many people can no longer watch the programs of Zimmerman, Plushenko, Coughlin, Harding, Fontana, Staviyski, or recently Nathan Chen because of the Fauci connection? Or whoever else I'm forgetting?

People saying they can no longer watch the skating because of more recent actions doesn't mean they are doing said actions because they were... bad skaters. That doesn't fit what they are saying.

 

[Sparks]

or recently Nathan Chen because of the Fauci connection?

I think this is a huge false equivalency. Nathan supporting Dr. Fauci is quite different than the other examples given

 

[tony]

I think this is a huge false equivalency. Nathan supporting Dr. Fauci is quite different than the other examples given

It doesn't matter. The point is that we all are allowed to either keep supporting or choose to stop watching/forget about the past as we so want to.

Tonya Harding got a ton of slack for her constant Trump-supportive posts but it's not like I personally am going to decide that I hate her skating and can't enjoy her programs from 30 years ago even though our political beliefs are 100% opposite and most of what she shares is fake news anyways. As I said, if some people can't separate that then that's their own choice.

And if you want a better example, we can go through the Paniot at Nationals ordeal where he simply forgot his mask and certain posters were certain Eldredge was behind it because of his political beliefs, to the point that they were pulling up social media receipts within minutes.

Some people decided not to support a single person who still had Cipres as their social media contact. Some people decided who to pick and choose they were annoyed with. @canbelto I believe was very vocal in deciding that all skaters should know 'right from wrong' in that situation.

 

[Sparks]

It does matter

 

[canbelto]

I don't gather that from the posts and I think that's your interpretation being all twisted up. From what I understood, there was a post earlier in the thread suggesting Canadians on Twitter were telling her to give up her gold medal over her recent actions, probably by extension not representing Canada well or whatever else. But why people here insist on looking at Twitter 'fandom' is still beyond me.

How many people can no longer watch the programs of Zimmerman, Plushenko, Coughlin, Harding, Fontana, Staviyski, or recently Nathan Chen because of the Fauci connection? Or whoever else I'm forgetting?

People saying they can no longer watch the skating because of more recent actions doesn't mean they are doing said actions because they were... bad skaters. That doesn't fit what they are saying.

I swear most of the recent posts are "I never liked her skating anyway, it's not a surprise" blah blah blah. It's such a logical fallacy to think that her mental meltdown and extreme belief in conspiracy theories is somehow related to her getting a gold medal in SLC, to the point where they want the medal revoked.

You can't strip someone of a medal because that person is a shitty person. Omg.

 

[tony]

Double post.

 

[tony]

It does matter

Are you going to tell me you aren't replying to me because you didn't decide to quote, or can I reply?

People can get annoyed of skaters for whatever and whichever reasons they want to get annoyed with them. I'm separating the skating from all of the off-ice stuff, and most of FSU (as I've repeatedly pointed out) has little to zero problem with what Maxim Staviyski did [let me clarify: by listing D/S programs as their favorites still, referencing them often, etc] but they are very vocal about some of the more recent happenings.

It's all selective process and what is more of an issue personally to said poster. Harding posting about Trump all the time got people to unfollow her and never watch her skating again. From the looks of it, Chen supporting Fauci and a 'side' has similar threats.

You can't strip someone of a medal because that person is a shitty person. Omg.

I guess I'm just missing who is really saying that since the last time that you posted in this thread and your need to shout your way through the more recent post today. Mentioning Twitter Canadians who want her medal revoked isn't really relevant to FSU, I don't think. You called out Vagabond but he said her actions have made her programs unwatchable.

 

[canbelto]

@allezfred also views Jamie's current meltdown as a way to relitigate SLC. And it's ****ing immature. These things are not ****ing related.

And while we're at it, it's hypocritical of FSU to focus just on Jamie's belief in Q-anon because they don't like her skating, when there are other prominent skaters who are openly into Q as well. Go look at Tonya Harding's insta: she even uses the hashtag #wwg1wga. Another is Todd Eldredge. But I forgot ... people like their skating so it's okay ... or something.

 

[dogbert]

Vagabond and a whole bunch of others. Somehow, Sale's sad mental meltdown is related to her not being as good of a skater as B&S in SLC and thus her gold should be revoked? What the ****. It's not related. You can think she wasn't as good as B&S and that her current mental state is sad. You can think that S&P deserved the gold and that her current mental state is sad.

Yes - THIS

The real problem is the use of OGMs and sports celebrity as conferring credibility and validating noxious views that are harmful to society generally. A brand will hire a sports celebrity to endorse a product because the accomplishment of winning the medal becomes linked to the personality of the athlete and carries over to the product.

Except here you have what amounts to a self-endorsement. If having an OGM is a valuable and rare accomplishment, the medal holder is thus credible, making his/her views something important or worthy of attention. It's like - "Jamie Sale and Theory Fleury have gold medals which makes them special people who are smart and should be listened". IMO, the blog post destroys that premise quite well, albeit with

 

[tony]

@allezfred also views Jamie's current meltdown as a way to relitigate SLC. And it's ****ing immature. These things are not ****ing related.

And while we're at it, it's hypocritical of FSU to focus just on Jamie's belief in Q-anon because they don't like her skating, when there are other prominent skaters who are openly into Q as well. Go look at Tonya Harding's insta: she even uses the hashtag #wwg1wga. Another is Todd Eldredge. But I forgot ... people like their skating so it's okay ... or something.

Do you read my replies? I've mentioned both Harding and Eldredge already, and the suggestion that this board is heavily pro-Eldredge skating is . His fan club president Brenda got banned last year and I'm not sure there are many members left. I've already brought up the reference to the Nationals thread when people were 100% sure Paniot was behaving badly by orders of Eldredge-- which ended up completely untrue.

I should be off to watch Eldredge's wonderfully interpreted 'Walk on the Wild Side' now.

 

[allezfred]

You can't strip someone of a medal because that person is a shitty person. Omg.

I wouldn’t strip her of her medals because of her awful views.

I would strip her for the fake snowball fight in a heartbeat though.

 

[Winnipeg]

What you're doing is bullying. You're saying "if you watch these skaters you are a bad person."

Hardly bullying? Not even close

 

[overedge]

Somehow, Sale's sad mental meltdown is related to her not being as good of a skater as B&S in SLC and thus her gold should be revoked?

Nobody here is claiming that. It was raised by a poster as "Some Canadians are saying this" and I among others pointed out that this is generally untrue.

 

[overedge]

And BTW Jamie's fellow anti-vax conspiracy theorist Theo Fleury also has an Olympic gold medal (men's hockey 2002). So if hers should be taken away because she's disgracing the country, his should be too.

 

[Bouffantrex]

I've mentioned both Harding and Eldredge already, and the suggestion that this board is heavily pro-Eldredge skating is . His fan club president Brenda got banned last year and I'm not sure there are many members left.

I'm sorry, but Todd's legacy continues to endure today, even 20 years later. I see this in his YouTube comment sections all the time, and I suspect he still has quite the following on this forum. Sign me up for the fan club--what fun!

As for Jamie Sale, she is clearly disordered and not well. I do find it predictable and dull how people her use 'unique' political ideology as a pretense to rehash Salt Lake City and bash Sale/Pelletier for the umpteenth time.

 

[once_upon]

First of all, @allezfred knows trigger buttons with some Canadian fans and absolutely loves to push them. Because it is do frigging easy to do.

I know I was on pain meds for a while but I didn't see any FSU posters advocating for taking away a gold medal because of the political views.

Maybe a couple advocated for it for the same damn reason that has been argued for 22 years. And continues to be argued, which seems senseless to me, it's been 22 frigging years. But not for going off onto the Q wagon - that seems to have been on some Canada political forum

I'm probably in the minority, but there are probably 2 maybe 3 skates that I would watch after 4 years.

I didn't read anything that says her gold medal should be yanked for the Q-ness.

 

[On My Own]

Sorry if I misrepresented what people were saying on twitter (I agree it was only some Canadians by the way, not all of them... and also that it wasn't a big contingent of people... and also that some weren't even Canadians).

I agree skating =/= personality off the ice.

I don't know what happened with Nathan Chen and Fauci.

 

[Sparks]

I don't know what happened with Nathan Chen and Fauci.

Nothing happened. Nothing.
They simply teamed up to promote sensible public health policies

 

[Judy]

Wow, that article was too much, even for me. Not sure what is gained by going after people you disagree with so personally.

You have to know Dean lol. He actually knows her too.

 

[screech]

The closest thing I can relate SLC to with regards to her current public views is the popular viewpoint that she went to the media and whined herself to the gold medal (though I don't know if I'd go that far, I do think that if the 2002 Games had been anywhere but North America, there wouldn't have been the media around it and thus the 'outcry' leading to the investigation and thus the double gold)

 

[Japanfan]

The closest thing I can relate SLC to with regards to her current public views is the popular viewpoint that she went to the media and whined herself to the gold medal (though I don't know if I'd go that far, I do think that if the 2002 Games had been anywhere but North America, there wouldn't have been the media around it and thus the 'outcry' leading to the investigation and thus the double gold)

Oh please, not this again.

FFS. Jamie did not whine herself to a gold medal. The second gold medal was awarded because a judge admitted to misconduct.

Maybe there wouldn't have been the same outcry if the Games had been held outside of North America. But judging misconduct does need to be addressed. Still hasn't been properly IMO.

 

[Andora]

@allezfred also views Jamie's current meltdown as a way to relitigate SLC. And it's ****ing immature. These things are not ****ing related.

And while we're at it, it's hypocritical of FSU to focus just on Jamie's belief in Q-anon because they don't like her skating, when there are other prominent skaters who are openly into Q as well. Go look at Tonya Harding's insta: she even uses the hashtag #wwg1wga. Another is Todd Eldredge. But I forgot ... people like their skating so it's okay ... or something.

People like Tonya & Todd's skating?

I'm sorry, but Todd's legacy continues to endure today, even 20 years later. I see this in his YouTube comment sections all the time, and I suspect he still has quite the following on this forum. Sign me up for the fan club--what fun!

As for Jamie Sale, she is clearly disordered and not well. I do find it predictable and dull how people her use 'unique' political ideology as a pretense to rehash Salt Lake City and bash Sale/Pelletier for the umpteenth time.

Oh... Well, the world is made up of all kinds, I guess...

I agree with your second point, though. Illustrates how predictably dull some of these posters are.

First of all, @allezfred knows trigger buttons with some Canadian fans and absolutely loves to push them. Because it is do frigging easy to do.

I know I was on pain meds for a while but I didn't see any FSU posters advocating for taking away a gold medal because of the political views.

Maybe a couple advocated for it for the same damn reason that has been argued for 22 years. And continues to be argued, which seems senseless to me, it's been 22 frigging years. But not for going off onto the Q wagon - that seems to have been on some Canada political forum

I'm probably in the minority, but there are probably 2 maybe 3 skates that I would watch after 4 years.

I didn't read anything that says her gold medal should be yanked for the Q-ness.

SLC was 20 years ago, and it's increasingly hard to see it without a COP filter. Not to mention, Jamie's truly unhinged bullshit of late makes it easy for this former fan to leave that ancient debate in the past. So, it strikes me as sad, dated and revealing that a few posters would rather attempt to dunk on Canadian fans instead of Sale's shitty politics.

But if y'all require self care so bad you need to try and "trigger" Canadians for fun, have at it. The pandemic's been tough on everyone, and I'm sure we can stand it if it helps FSU's senior clique-- I mean, population, feel better about themselves.

 

[once_upon]

The pandemic's been tough on everyone, and I'm sure we can stand it if it helps FSU's senior clique-- I mean, population, feel better about themselves.

If that's what you got from me, I'm sorry because I certainly had zero animosity towards her skating or their gold medal.

My comments were simply, I feel in the minority, because I try to enjoy current skating. I dont focus on rewatching old skating programs. I never have. It's rare I remember someone skating the same program for a consecutive year.

Yeah I'm old. But go ahead and twist my words to fit whatever works.

######

ETA - I was a fairly naive skating fan in 2002 and knew nothing about polticking. I am still fairly naive about it because I dont really think it exists, but it is obvious that many others do. Usually people with greater knowledge of stuff than me. People who pour over protocols, people who know which judges are which countries and know how they score different skaters.

What I do see is some nationalism of posters for their own countrymen - which is normal, I do it too. I watch, I like whoever/programs I like, and like most people get defensive when criticized for who I like.

In 2002 - my total fandom was focus was US ladies competition, TV coverage was for me limited. Competitions I attended or watched were US. I did have the opportunity to go two international ones. Over the years, I have preferred certain teams or skaters over others. I think others have/do too.

The only Gold Medals I've thought should be returned have been based on doping issues.

Then ones I think are not deserved - pretty much are based on MY preferences. That's not just international medals but national medals. Sometimes based on more than just skating - such as meeting skaters, fan behaviors of their favorites, how well a program speaks to me. I think that's normal too.

The only program that I ever watched repeatedly for years was S/Z 2003 World's. More because of her courage.

So yeah I'm old, yeah I have favorites, yeah some fan triggers are easier to spot than others. I came into this thread because I kept seeing it pop up and wondered why. I'm truly sad to see her go down the Q pathway.

Yeah put me in the senior citizen clique if it makes you feel better.

 

[VGThuy]

People like Tonya & Todd's skating?



Oh... Well, the world is made up of all kinds, I guess...

I agree with your second point, though. Illustrates how predictably dull some of these posters are.



SLC was 20 years ago, and it's increasingly hard to see it without a COP filter. Not to mention, Jamie's truly unhinged bullshit of late makes it easy for this former fan to leave that ancient debate in the past. So, it strikes me as sad, dated and revealing that a few posters would rather attempt to dunk on Canadian fans instead of Sale's shitty politics.

But if y'all require self care so bad you need to try and "trigger" Canadians for fun, have at it. The pandemic's been tough on everyone, and I'm sure we can stand it if it helps FSU's senior clique-- I mean, population, feel better about themselves.

Hmmm, after reading this, I can see why some people can’t help triggering certain fans.

 

[canbelto]

Here’s another logical fallacy: a country’s fans like a skater. I (allaezfred) dont like this skater. Therefore this country is trash and deserves to die.

Allezfred somehow hates every N American skater.

 

[PRlady]

Here’s another logical fallacy: a country’s fans like a skater. I (allaezfred) dont like this skater. Therefore this country is trash and deserves to die.

Allezfred somehow hates every N American skater.

No he doesn’t, and that’s from someone he loves to tease about our sometimes-different taste in ice dance. He was a Virtue/Moir uber forever, for example.

 

[canbelto]

The closest thing I can relate SLC to with regards to her current public views is the popular viewpoint that she went to the media and whined herself to the gold medal (though I don't know if I'd go that far, I do think that if the 2002 Games had been anywhere but North America, there wouldn't have been the media around it and thus the 'outcry' leading to the investigation and thus the double gold)Ja

I don't see how anyone can look at her twitter and IG and thread the needle between SLC and 2022. Jamie's tweets and IG are truly unhinged, and if you follow her IG, there's a rapid drop-off at around this January. Her IG went from the usual mix of pictures about family, pets, vacations, and skating and to this Q shit all day, ever day.

 

[tony]

I don't see how anyone can look at her twitter and IG and thread the needle between SLC and 2022. Jamie's tweets and IG are truly unhinged, and if you follow her IG, there's a rapid drop-off at around this January. Her IG went from the usual mix of pictures about family, pets, vacations, and skating and to this Q shit all day, ever day.

But if her current actions make people not want to enjoy previous programs anymore, who really cares? I’ve already said upthread that I don’t let that get in the way, but obviously it does for other people. At the end of the day, it’s one less view on YouTube or one less rewind through the old broken down VCR and it shouldn’t get anyone worked up.

And off-topic to a discussion a few posts up, but I’m often watching older skating. I came into watching the sport in 1993 but I’ve gone through the 70s and a lot of the 80s material especially since new goodies seem to always be showing up.

 

[On My Own]

I think it's okay to not enjoy a skater anymore based off their actions... Goodness knows I've not watched Yagudin since 2020. It doesn't mean he's any less of a skater, but I just don't want to watch him because I don't like him anymore.

Again, I agree skating =/= personality off the ice. But viewers are consumers. They can choose to do whatever they like for whichever reason. Much like people don't watch Harry Potter anymore, even though Rowling ended that book series in 2007, 12 years before her comments on trans people.

 

[Yazmeen]

Jamie is probably obsessed with QANON and all her other right wing rhetoric and doesn’t talk about anything else. She’s probably the aggressor with anyone who disagrees with her, who isn’t totally gung ho the way she is, and/or anyone who wants to talk about something else or asks politely that since they disagree it’ll be better to not talk about such things with them...

Sometimes, having to “ostracize” people is the only way you can keep your mental health. You have to take care of yourself even if it means cutting people you love because they only add constant toxicity, negativity, and stress in your life. There’s really nothing you can do because people like Jamie are entirely convinced they’re “freedom fighters” and everyone else, and I mean everyone else - no hyperbole, who they once cherished in their lives and they once respected, are now absolutely wrong about everything in life, aren’t as aware as they are, and are thus worth losing because the new world order or the “enemy” agenda need to be stopped and they’re the ones who will do it.

Jamie Sale is a great skater - regardless of anyone's opinions of her talent, she won an OGM, and her politics and beliefs do not warrant the medal being taken away from her. That now said, I'd like to go back to this post, because IMO, this is one of the best explanations and most valuable posts in this entire thread.

Yes, you can strongly disagree with someone on politics/beliefs and still maintain respectful, if not close, relationships with them -I've done it with several people in a non-skating related sports club I'm in; we simply don't talk politics. Heck, a lot of us have had to do it all the time with people we work with as opposed to friends. However, the problems arise when one person simply decides that they must bring you over to their side or otherwise not tolerate the fact that you believe differently than they do. I have a friend with whom I was very close for years, until their second marriage and the discovery that their new spouse and I were political opposites during the 2016 election period (I think most who know me here realize I'm a strong liberal). While I wasn't close to second spouse - SS from here on in for simplicity, we at least got along until politics entered the fray. SS was well-described by another mutual friend as follows: "SS is a good person; however, they are completely intolerant to opinions other than their own." After realizing that SS and I were not a good fit on social media, I stopped following their posts and making any comments out of respect for my original friend and also an effort to preserve my real-life relationship with both of them. However, SS would not extend the same courtesy to me - they responded to my politically-oriented posts and those of my friends with nasty jibes, calling people "lost, losers, stupid," and they wouldn't step back at any point. I tried a suggested response, namely, replying "OK" when they would go off on my posts/friends; acknowledging SS, but refusing to take the bait. This only made SS angrier and nastier. I finally had enough and cut off and blocked them online.

Here's the upshot: within 3 minutes of doing so, I got a text message on my phone from a number I didn't recognize at first (I had not put SS in my list of contacts on a new phone). The message? "OK." Yep, they were following me and going after me so closely that it only took that long to realize they couldn't contact me online anymore. Pardon the long story, but I see a lot of this type of behavior in Jamie: "I'm right, you're wrong, and I'm going to beat my politics and beliefs into you to bring your to your senses, and I don't care how it makes you feel or how it damages our relationship - I have to WIN; that's the ultimate goal." @VGThuy is correct - sometimes you have to ostracize people for your own mental health; and quite frankly, possibly for theirs, too.