Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[LarrySK8]

Brennan and Leese placed the feathers on everyone's doorstep, lots of feathers (as in the Bible parable), and allowed for a venue on twitter, FB and Instagram for the social media storm and conviction in the court of public opinion.

Not only did they place the feathers, they provided the wind for them to be carried around the world, never to be taken back. Again, apply the parable. And they KNEW what it would do. They couldn't resist.

Now that he is dead, I would recommend to the family they contact a lawyer and investigate starting civil proceedings against everyone involved, including the accusers. They have to be careful, though, as if he was guilty of something his reputation will be tarnished - oh wait - that already happened.

The family has nothing to lose. If the family of John has any doubts about his 'guilt' or 'misconduct,' I recommend to them legal actions.

 

[Tavi]

Brennan and Leese placed the feathers on everyone's doorstep, lots of feathers (as in the Bible parable), and allowed for a venue on twitter, FB and Instagram for the social media storm and conviction in the court of public opinion.

Not only did they place the feathers, they provided the wind for them to be carried around the world, never to be taken back. Again, apply the parable. And they KNEW what it would do. They couldn't resist.

Now that he is dead, I would recommend to the family they contact a lawyer and investigate starting civil proceedings against everyone involved, including the accusers. They have to be careful, though, as if he was guilty of something his reputation will be tarnished - oh wait - that already happened.

The family has nothing to lose. If the family of John has any doubts about his 'guilt' or 'misconduct,' I recommend to them legal actions.

You are really out of line in placing blame and in making your ill-considered recommendations to the family.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Brennan and Leese placed the feathers on everyone's doorstep, lots of feathers (as in the Bible parable), and allowed for a venue on twitter, FB and Instagram for the social media storm and conviction in the court of public opinion.

Not only did they place the feathers, they provided the wind for them to be carried around the world, never to be taken back. Again, apply the parable. And they KNEW what it would do. They couldn't resist.

Now that he is dead, I would recommend to the family they contact a lawyer and investigate starting civil proceedings against everyone involved, including the accusers. They have to be careful, though, as if he was guilty of something his reputation will be tarnished - oh wait - that already happened.

The family has nothing to lose. If the family of John has any doubts about his 'guilt' or 'misconduct,' I recommend to them legal actions.

So why didn't he do that himself with the support of his family????????

 

[Plisskin]

I expect little 16 yr olds on Twitter and some in the skating community to do something idiotic like blame a Youtube channel for someone's suicide, but I didn't think some people on this forum would really sink so low. I thought generally people were a bit more intelligent than that here but I guess not. Incredibly disgusting.

 

[CaliSteve]

Brennan and Leese placed the feathers on everyone's doorstep, lots of feathers (as in the Bible parable), and allowed for a venue on twitter, FB and Instagram for the social media storm and conviction in the court of public opinion.

Not only did they place the feathers, they provided the wind for them to be carried around the world, never to be taken back. Again, apply the parable. And they KNEW what it would do. They couldn't resist.

Now that he is dead, I would recommend to the family they contact a lawyer and investigate starting civil proceedings against everyone involved, including the accusers. They have to be careful, though, as if he was guilty of something his reputation will be tarnished - oh wait - that already happened.

The family has nothing to lose. If the family of John has any doubts about his 'guilt' or 'misconduct,' I recommend to them legal actions.

Your deflecting blame based on your personal opinion of Dave and Christine.

I doubt the family would take legal action because they would be told they have no case.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Brennan and Leese placed the feathers on everyone's doorstep, lots of feathers (as in the Bible parable), and allowed for a venue on twitter, FB and Instagram for the social media storm and conviction in the court of public opinion.

Not only did they place the feathers, they provided the wind for them to be carried around the world, never to be taken back. Again, apply the parable. And they KNEW what it would do. They couldn't resist.

Now that he is dead, I would recommend to the family they contact a lawyer and investigate starting civil proceedings against everyone involved, including the accusers. They have to be careful, though, as if he was guilty of something his reputation will be tarnished - oh wait - that already happened.

The family has nothing to lose. If the family of John has any doubts about his 'guilt' or 'misconduct,' I recommend to them legal actions.

I think you are wrong to suggest legal action against Brennan. Newspaper like USA Today have legal advisors so before something they are published articles go through many hands who review, approve, especially in a case like that they are so careful. In fact, it's not in her personnal interest to report false or innacurate informations, it would cost her her job if she would do so...

 

[caseyedwards]

People reacting in a manner that defies logic (unspecified accusation = conviction as an evil rapist monster, really?!!) does not mean that there is something wrong with the process!



"suspension pending investigation" is a standard practice, is temporary and does not equal the above!!

But if someone is suspended from wal mart are they put on Wal marts website?!?! Does everyone talk about how the list was established because of a rapist who was found guilty? Coughlin was put on a list established to combat people who are guilty of rape! The SafeSport list doesn’t exist In a bubble where people don’t know it was established to let people know of sexual predators.

 

[caseyedwards]

You do understand that an "interim suspension" is temporary, pending the completion of the investigation?

Well he was put on a public list that meant people compared him to Larry Nassar and he lost all his jobs permanently! He was treated as totally guilty and fired from all his jobs and then killled himself! Not temporary

 

[Habs]

Well he was put on a public list that meant people compared him to Larry Nassar and he lost all his jobs permanently! He was treated as totally guilty and fired from all his jobs and then killled himself! Not temporary

This isn't true, but you've never let facts get in the way before.

 

[VGThuy]

Defendants who are on trial have gone through an indictment process, prior to which they were investigated privately.

John's situation is akin to the police publicly announcing they are investigating someone. He was not arrested, he was not charged with a crime. I am not a police officer, but I believe typically investigations are not public knowledge. The first time the public is told is when a person gets arrested.

However, since this situation involves a regulatory body that does not need to meet a legal standard in order to enact punishment, the waters are muddier. People can be suspended and banned for violations but not prosecuted under the law. For example, a coach's consensual relationship with an adult student is not a crime but it is an ethical violation.

Not necessarily. Some times people get arrested and their names are put on public databases before they get released and before their cases go through the indictment stage. People who get charged before indictment have had their names published as well in local newspapers and such. Not to mention indictments are a process where the state provides evidence to a grand jury to see if there's enough to bring forth a trial. There's no opportunity for the Defendant to present his/her own evidence, confront the evidence collected against him/her, or to even attend the proceeding in some jurisdictions to combat that. Almost all indictment hearings result in the grand jury green lighting the trial.

 

[CaliSteve]

Well he was put on a public list that meant people compared him to Larry Nassar and he lost all his jobs permanently! He was treated as totally guilty and fired from all his jobs and then killled himself! Not temporary

You are assuming way too much. Do people make assumptions when someone is put on "a list", yes. Did everyone think he was guilty or compare him to Larry Nassar, No.

John did not permanently lose his jobs. The level of suspensions he receive did temporarily prevent him from continuing, but if the findings came out in his favor, he would have been reinstated.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

But if someone is suspended from wal mart are they put on Wal marts website?!?! Does everyone talk about how the list was established because of a rapist who was found guilty? Coughlin was put on a list established to combat people who are guilty of rape! The SafeSport list doesn’t exist In a bubble where people don’t know it was established to let people know of sexual predators.

I guess we need to ask Walmart! See if they have rules against sexual misconduct??

 

[yunasashafan]

But if someone is suspended from wal mart are they put on Wal marts website?!?! Does everyone talk about how the list was established because of a rapist who was found guilty? Coughlin was put on a list established to combat people who are guilty of rape! The SafeSport list doesn’t exist In a bubble where people don’t know it was established to let people know of sexual predators.

The list is not only for people who were deemed guilty! It is for people facing accusations and some of them were cleared. It was done to prevent cases from potentially turning into other examples like the Nassar case. Being on the list means someone did some initial research (that was done in confidence for a couple of months) and then decided it was appropriate to notify the community that an investigation(not conviction) is ongoing and the corresponding INTERIM measures.

I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. Being on the site does not mean you are Larry Nassar! If people are jumping to that conclusion, then that is a separate issue.

 

[skatingguy]

I guess we need to ask Walmart! See if they have rules against sexual misconduct??

From Walmart's Code of Ethical Conduct

Harassment is conduct which inappropriately or unreasonably interferes with work performance, diminishes the dignity of any person or creates an intimidating, hostile or otherwise offensive work environment based on an individual’s legally protected status. Verbal, visual or physical conduct of a sexual nature is not acceptable in the workplace and may be determined to be sexual harassment. Examples include:
• Sexual advances, requests for sexual favours, sexually explicit language, off-colour jokes, remarks about a person’s body or sexual activities.
• Displaying sexually suggestive pictures or objects, suggestive looks, leering or engaging in suggestive communication in any form.
• Inappropriate touching, both welcome and unwelcome.

https://www.walmartethics.com/uploadedFiles/Content/Massmart_SA.pdf

 

[skatingguy]

The list is not only for people who were deemed guilty! It is for people facing accusations and some of them were cleared. It was done to prevent cases from potentially turning into other examples like the Nassar case. Being on the list means someone did some initial research (that was done in confidence for a couple of months) and then decided it was appropriate to notify the community that an investigation(not conviction) is ongoing and the corresponding INTERIM measures.

I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. Being on the site does not mean you are Larry Nassar! If people are jumping to that conclusion, then that is a separate issue.

If you're looking for logic, and nuance from that particular member I think you'll be disappointed.

 

[Stephori]

What is a bio site?

A site that contains the biography of a person

 

[Stephori]

Sources/links? Or are you sealioning?

Google "John Coughlin" and you will almost immediately see sites with his biography. What is seasoning? I'm only sharing what I have come across. Personally, I don't think a biography should contain rumors, but his did.

 

[skatfan]

Phil Hersh provides a piece with some good reflection

 

[Skittl1321]

Brennan and Leese placed the feathers on everyone's doorstep, lots of feathers (as in the Bible parable), and allowed for a venue on twitter, FB and Instagram for the social media storm and conviction in the court of public opinion.

Not only did they place the feathers, they provided the wind for them to be carried around the world, never to be taken back. Again, apply the parable. And they KNEW what it would do. They couldn't resist.

Now that he is dead, I would recommend to the family they contact a lawyer and investigate starting civil proceedings against everyone involved, including the accusers. They have to be careful, though, as if he was guilty of something his reputation will be tarnished - oh wait - that already happened.

The family has nothing to lose. If the family of John has any doubts about his 'guilt' or 'misconduct,' I recommend to them legal actions.

I think your idea of "nothing to lose" is misguided. (Well, probably the whole idea is- but that's the part I will address.) Legal proceedings and blame take severe emotional tolls, and often end in undesirable results, and no matter what the ending is it won't bring him back.

 

[overedge]

Google "John Coughlin" and you will almost immediately see sites with his biography. What is seasoning? I'm only sharing what I have come across. Personally, I don't think a biography should contain rumors, but his did.

I'm not doing your Google work for you. If you saw sites that alleged he was gay, post the links.

And if you really don't know what "sealioning" is, you can Google that too.

 

[once_upon]

Phil Hersh provides a piece with some good reflection

He does make some good points.

 

[missing]

My problem with the whole situation is that it is under the control of an underfunded organization created to protect the accusers, which allows for anonymous claims, has no statute of limitations and no double jeopardy, no declaration of time limitations on its investigations, and includes as one of its causes for suspension non-defined sexual harassment.

It's easy for someone to say, well if the suspension is lifted on X, X will be able to return to his career. The reality is X could be without his job anywhere from a month to forever, with his reputation at best tarnished, at worst destroyed. He has no career to return to. Multiple other careers (such as teaching) are probably no longer options, even if they had been of interest to him.

And for those who think the investigation should continue to see if there is a systemic problem, it doesn't seem like that falls into Safe Sports code:

Limit—individuals and non-employment matters The Office’s authority extends only to the conduct of individuals—Covered Individuals specifically. It does not regulate, investigate or audit LAO, NGB or USOC organizational practices.

 

[Stephori]

Well he was put on a public list that meant people compared him to Larry Nassar and he lost all his jobs permanently! He was treated as totally guilty and fired from all his jobs and then killled himself! Not temporary

He was not fired from all his jobs. He resigned from his position as a brand manager for Wilson Blades.

 

[Prancer]

I paraphrase a parable from the Bible regarding forgiveness and gossip:

This is not a parable from the Bible. It is a story told in different ways in Christian and Jewish traditions.

I don't see anything in Ms. Milan's tweet that is substantive.

It isn't a tweet; it is a long series of tweets which explain, in detail, why due process was not violated here. If people still have questions about this, here is link to the Twitter posts and here is Zemgirl's post explaining Courtney Milan's qualifications to speak on this issue.

But is everyone put on a public list where the assumption is that anyone on the list is an evil rapist monster.

It is attitudes like this that lead to social media hysteria. People know nothing and assume much and off they go like a pack of hysterical hyenas.

John's situation is akin to the police publicly announcing they are investigating someone. He was not arrested, he was not charged with a crime. I am not a police officer, but I believe typically investigations are not public knowledge. The first time the public is told is when a person gets arrested.

I posted this list in the other thread, but I'll repost it here:

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-...der-investigation-for-sexual-misconduct-65162
http://www.fox8live.com/2018/12/13/...n-under-investigation-sexually-abusing-teens/
https://www.latimes.com/politics/es...atic-party-chairman-1543170712-htmlstory.html
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...edly-investigation-allegations-sexual-assault
https://www.thisisinsider.com/r-kelly-sexual-abuse-and-child-porn-allegation-2019-1
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/us/dartmouth-professors-sexual-harassment.html

None of these men have been arrested, yet the fact that they are or were being investigated for sexual misconduct is right there for all to see. Some of those men are famous, which might be used to excuse the coverage, but some of them are not. Some of them are being investigated by the police; some of them are being investigated organizationally. None of them have been arrested or indicted.

It took me less a second to find these reports on Google; I didn't even try beyond a single search or go beyond a single page of search results and knew I wouldn't have to because reports like this are common. As I said there, I can see arguing that the names of the accused should be kept confidential, but I don't at all understand why people think that what happened here in terms of reporting is somehow exceptional or pointedly malicious.

 

[PRlady]

Phil Hersh weighs in with a focus on SafeSport. I think this is responsible reporting. http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...lved-should-lead-to-more-than-finger-pointing

 

[Prancer]

I'm not doing your Google work for you. If you saw sites that alleged he was gay, post the links.

No, don't. Tinami already did and for what? I don't know why you are pursuing this. The last thing we need to do in this thread is spread more rumors.

 

[VGThuy]

Phil Hersh weighs in with a focus on SafeSport. I think this is responsible reporting. http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...lved-should-lead-to-more-than-finger-pointing

I think that's a very good piece about the situation and explanation of how and why SafeSport operates the way it does while acknowledging issues of underfunding.

 

[overedge]

No, don't. Tinami already did and for what? I don't know why you are pursuing this. The last thing we need to do in this thread is spread more rumors.

Agreed. I was responding to the OP's refusal to back up its own claims.

 

[caseyedwards]

The list is not only for people who were deemed guilty! It is for people facing accusations and some of them were cleared. It was done to prevent cases from potentially turning into other examples like the Nassar case. Being on the list means someone did some initial research (that was done in confidence for a couple of months) and then decided it was appropriate to notify the community that an investigation(not conviction) is ongoing and the corresponding INTERIM measures.

I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. Being on the site does not mean you are Larry Nassar! If people are jumping to that conclusion, then that is a separate issue.

That’s the only issue I care about!!! People saying Coughlin was a larry Nassar because he was on the list! That’s the thing that killed Coughlin!!

 

[Stephori]

Won't the letter john sent be subpoenaed by the coroner?

How was the accuser who is competing at nationals identified? That will require nerves of steel.