Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[nlloyd]

You can read it on People.com. Regardless, I really don't understand your point. Do you think he killed himslelf not because of the investigation and ensuing publicity / loss of employment? P.S. No, I am not saying the victims should not be protected, the abuse should be tolerated, the secrecy had to be maintained above all, and that Coughlin was not guilty. I do not know. I am simply saying lets not take a young man's suicide lightly.

I don't think anyone is taking his suicide lightly. It is a tragedy for all concerned. I don't know why he killed himself. It may be because of a false accusation, the subsequent publicity and loss of employment. It may be because he was guilty and could not deal with the fallout. His suicide may be related to the investigation in different way or have nothing to do with it. We simply do not know.

My concern with assuming that it was because of the publicity and loss of employment is that that interpretation is founded on an assumption that he was innocent. (If he was guilty, one would have to consider that a reason for taking his life.) It discourages the consideration of other possibilities by putting the focus on the media -- Brennan, TSL, social media, SafeSport are criticized for their handling of the allegations. Even if you believe those criticisms are well-placed (and I do not, although I dislike both Brennan and TSL's style), they still don't tell us anything about his motivations.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Forgive me if I'm missing something here but, if the relationship was legal AND consensual, how did Pottenger "make a mistake?"

Because there's a third standard in many places, which takes context of the power-dynamic, like teacher/coach and student into consideration. In some universities, for example, it is against university policy for any faculty to date any student, even if the student isn't in the faculty member's department or a related department. So if the professional standards say that a coach can't date a student, even if that student isn't his/hers, that coach can be sanctioned. Wasn't that the case for Pottenger?

 

[MK's Winter]

Forgive me if I'm missing something here but, if the relationship was legal AND consensual, how did Pottenger "make a mistake?"

Well for one coach or not there is a power dynamic. And legal or not if you are 23 and dating a 16 year old- I’m looking at you funny.

 

[centerpt1]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-coughlin-death-sexual-misconduct/2632092002/


More specifics on complaints

 

[skateboy]

Because there's a third standard in many places, which takes context of the power-dynamic, like teacher/coach and student into consideration. In some universities, for example, it is against university policy for any faculty to date any student, even if the student isn't in the faculty member's department or a related department. So if the professional standards say that a coach can't date a student, even if that student isn't his/hers, that coach can be sanctioned. Wasn't that the case for Pottenger?

Oh okay, thanks.

 

[skateboy]

Well for one coach or not there is a power dynamic. And legal or not if you are 23 and dating a 16 year old- I’m looking at you funny.

Fair enough.

 

[CaliSteve]

I'm horrified by some of the things going on in this thread, but think it should stay open so we can bring issues to light within our community.

It is disgusting the way some people are making assumptions about the accusers. I can't help but wonder if we knew who the accusers were, if the accusers happened to be well-known skaters, if some people would change their tune.

I agree that this thread stays open so we can continue a dialogue about the recent events. Alot of us are emotional because the recent events has touched a nerve, but Im hopeful that with continued dialogue we can understand one another.

I disagree about making public the identity of the accuser for many reasons. I dont understand your point if the accuser was well-known.

 

[Frau Muller]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-coughlin-death-sexual-misconduct/2632092002/


More specifics on complaints

There it is. There were three separate reports of sexual misconduct filed against Coughlin, two reports involving minors. It was the two reports involving minors that came to light most recently and resulted in the “suspension” designation on Jan 17.

That somewhat explains why the latest TSL guest interviewee “Jennifer” - who was involved in Safesport’s investigation on Coughlin - spoke at length about the “secret skating culture” of Pairs and Dance, often with weak girl/strong guy couplings, dating, etc...girls’ and their families shutting up so as to not lose the “highly precious” male partner. TSL’s guest didn’t specifically tie this to the Coughlin case...but this was what they discussed before going into Coughlin's case.

 

[dots]

There it is. Reports of sexual misconduct, two with minors.

That somewhat explains why the latest TSL guest interviewer - who was involved in Safesport’s investigation on Coughlin - spoke at length about the “secret skating culture” of Pairs and Dance, often with weak girl/strong guy couplings, dating, etc...girls’ and their families shutting up so as to not lose the “highly precious” male partner. TSL’s guest didn’t specifically tie this to the Coughlin case...but this was what they discussed before going into Coughlin's case.

Wow, it still shocking to read. The rumor were always out there after the news broke, but it still difficult to process when you read it in print.

Also, I am going to donate money to TSL tonight. There were times when I thought Dave Lease should have been dragged on social media, but his reporting about this case has been exceptional and respectful.

 

[leafygreens]

It is dangerous to assume that Brennan and TSL "riled up" additional complainants into coming forward ( insinuating that the additional complaintants are Brennan-TSL "tainted" and therefore not legitimate victims.)

We now know, after Dave's talk with one of the Safe Sport interviewee subjects, that Safe Sport's investigation has been ongoing since at least the fall. Brennan / TSL didn't report until a couple of weeks ago, so their reports probably didn't have anything to do with additional complaintants.

It takes time to complete an investigation and it sounds like SS talked to a lot of people. Why assume that Brennan-TSL procured the complaintants? This makes little sense, and appears to be victim shaming.

 

[Frau Muller]

Wow, it still shocking to read. The rumor were always out there after the news broke, but it still difficult to process when you read it in print.

Also, I am going to donate money to TSL tonight. There were times when I thought Dave Lease should have been dragged on social media, but his reporting about this case has been exceptional and respectful.

I will donate, too. Excellent reporting.

 

[caitie]

Wow.

Given this information, I don’t see how anyone can say the suspension wasn’t merited. It sounds like SafeSport quietly investigated an initial complaint (as early as this past October, if TSL’s source is correct) and then two more complaints turned up. And I certainly do not believe he was falsely accused with three complaints.

 

[platniumangel]

Anyone see this article yet?

“
Safe Sport Executives Resign as Class Action Cases Begin to Materialize which Expose Corruption & Criminal History, Along with Loss of Constitutional Rights”


https://shanedarnell.com/sscorruption/

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I don't think anyone is taking his suicide lightly.

I was responding to one specific post. Feel free to go back and look it up.

It is a tragedy for all concerned. I don't know why he killed himself. It may be because of a false accusation, the subsequent publicity and loss of employment. It may be because he was guilty and could not deal with the fallout. His suicide may be related to the investigation in different way or have nothing to do with it. We simply do not know.

His suicide was not because he lost his favorite sweater. To argue otherwise is to not see things for what they are. It was clearly related to the investigation and consequences.

My concern with assuming that it was because of the publicity and loss of employment is that that interpretation is founded on an assumption that he was innocent.

Where do you get that from? Who is talking about a "false" accusation or the suicide being any indication of his innocence (or guilt for that matter)? We have no idea. We don't know whether the facts will ever come out, and whether the possible victim(s) and John's family will ever get closure. We do know he was already tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Called a pedophile and sexual predator on social media. Lost his livelihood. And committed suicide. These are the only facts. They do not mean he was guilty. They do not mean he was not.

 

[Deleted member 221]

Keep in mind, as in the Pottenger case, minor doesn't necessarily mean below the age of consent, and doesn't necessarily mean illegal where it happened. There are degrees of wrongdoing.

The weird thing about skating is that it's a bubble. Normally, a 23-year-old would be at a very different stage in life to a 16-year-old. In skating, sometimes not. Things that seem gross and wrong and inappropriate to people who have gone to typical schools, to university, etc. sometimes don't seem so wrong to people who live in a bubble and don't have much contact with people outside of that bubble. I'm not excusing any behavior, but I am saying that the community may need more education about what's right and wrong. It's entirely possible that relationships in violation of SafeSport or the PSA happened openly and in front of mandatory reporters, and nothing was done because in the bubble of skating, it's always been that way; or they're both good kids; or any number of excuses. But it is wrong. The various skating associations need to make sure all involved are aware of their legal, ethical, and professional responsibilities.

 

[Tavi]

Anyone see this article yet?

“
Safe Sport Executives Resign as Class Action Cases Begin to Materialize which Expose Corruption & Criminal History, Along with Loss of Constitutional Rights”


https://shanedarnell.com/sscorruption/

He seems like someone with an axe to grind. What he’s written isn’t very coherent.

 

[platniumangel]

He seems like someone with an axe to grind. What he’s written isn’t very coherent.

I think it does open up some very important questions though. Who conducts the investigations? What are their qualifications, experience and background? Do they all pass background checks them selves?

 

[Rob]

I’m just stunned.

 

[rfisher]

I think it does open up some very important questions though. Who conducts the investigations? What are their qualifications, experience and background? Do they all pass background checks them selves?

If you go to their website, they have multiple pdfs with which to educate yourself.

 

[AnnM]

Anyone see this article yet?

“
Safe Sport Executives Resign as Class Action Cases Begin to Materialize which Expose Corruption & Criminal History, Along with Loss of Constitutional Rights”


https://shanedarnell.com/sscorruption/

That's less of an article and more of someone's rant on a blog.

 

[breathesgelatin]

I disagree about making public the identity of the accuser for many reasons. I dont understand your point if the accuser was well-known.

That's not what I'm arguing. The identity of the accusers should be protected at all costs, unless they want to come forward publicly. I've seen people in this forum speculate that the accusers are on a witch hunt against John Coughlin, that they are disgruntled diva skate moms, etc. I'm just saying that I think it would be a lot harder for folks who are arguing that John Coughlin is such a great guy from a 5 minute interaction they had with him at an event, if an accuser came forward and it so happened to be another skater they love. Consider that possibility, and see if it reframes your thinking.

 

[platniumangel]

If you go to their website, they have multiple pdfs with which to educate yourself.

I have tried to ”educate” myself and searched for the exact qualifications, education and experience of the investigators but I was unable to find it.

Since it’s apparently such common knowledge, I thought someone ere might have some insight in to the background of those who investigate.

 

[Tavi]

I think it does open up some very important questions though. Who conducts the investigations? What are their qualifications, experience and background? Do they all pass background checks them selves?

Perhaps, but it’s a bit hard for me to take this particular source seriously. It’s basically a bunch of unattributed quotes.

 

[overedge]

Anyone see this article yet?

“
Safe Sport Executives Resign as Class Action Cases Begin to Materialize which Expose Corruption & Criminal History, Along with Loss of Constitutional Rights”


https://shanedarnell.com/sscorruption/

You seriously think this is a factual reliable source, when it accuses the USOC of being part of an international child trafficking ring?

 

[CaliSteve]

It is dangerous to assume that Brennan and TSL "riled up" additional complainants into coming forward ( insinuating that the additional complaintants are Brennan-TSL "tainted" and therefore not legitimate victims.)

We now know, after Dave's talk with one of the Safe Sport interviewee subjects, that Safe Sport's investigation has been ongoing since at least the fall. Brennan / TSL didn't report until a couple of weeks ago, so their reports probably didn't have anything to do with additional complaintants.

It takes time to complete an investigation and it sounds like SS talked to a lot of people. Why assume that Brennan-TSL procured the complaintants? This makes little sense, and appears to be victim shaming.

Its also far out conspiracy theory.

 

[platniumangel]

Perhaps, but it’s a bit hard for me to take this particular source seriously. It’s basically a bunch of unattributed quotes.

I thought I would share it. Even if it’s opinion, it’s no different than anyone else sharing their opinions here. Not saying it has any validity to it.

I tried to find out the qualifications of the investigators and I don’t see it in the SafeSport Literature. Does anyone know the answer to this? This is my question.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Wow, it still shocking to read. The rumor were always out there after the news broke, but it still difficult to process when you read it in print.

Also, I am going to donate money to TSL tonight. There were times when I thought Dave Lease should have been dragged on social media, but his reporting about this case has been exceptional and respectful.

The article explained nothing. A minor could be an 18 year old. Or a child. There could have been criminal behavior or inappropriate behavior. There could have been forced sex (criminal charges would follow), grooming, unwanted sexual advances, or there could have been inappropriate jokes (see Eliza Dushku's complaint against a tv network). There are DEGREES of everything. We need to know facts before we can come to any conclusion. Unfortunately, it's highly unlikely the facts will become known given he circumstances.

 

[CaliSteve]

He seems like someone with an axe to grind. What he’s written isn’t very coherent.

Here is an CB USA Today article on the resignation of SS's Executive Director.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...fohl-safesports-ceo-stepping-down/2438229002/

 

[Ursula]

Dave Lease is trash. Not surprised he handled it poorly.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Well for one coach or not there is a power dynamic. And legal or not if you are 23 and dating a 16 year old- I’m looking at you funny.

You can look at anyone you like funny, and you can choose to not hire that person as a coach or allow/fund a partnership with that person for your minor, unemancipated child, but that's neither a legal nor an administrative standard.

This is why whether Coughlin dated minors isn't specifically a legal standard unless the state where they live has a law against the student-teacher/coach relationship within a specific age range: the age of consent in almost all, if not all, states is lower than the age of majority. In Colorado, where he lived and coached, a 17-year-old can have sex with someone who is within 10 years of their age. So from that standpoint, it would depend on the age of the woman and how old he was at the time of the relationship, not just whether or not she was a minor.

Separately, there may be administrative/professional standards set by PSA that may or may not have anything to do with age.

Speaking of "minors," unless the state age of consent is 18 in all cases, is, at best, shorthand, and at worst, inflammatory, IMO. There are a lot of different inputs to the age calculation, if age is relevant.

It takes time to complete an investigation and it sounds like SS talked to a lot of people. Why assume that Brennan-TSL procured the complaintants? This makes little sense, and appears to be victim shaming.

Whether or not true, it makes a lot of sense: if you look at the Nassar case, Rachel Denhollander contacted the Indianapolis Star, which ran the breakthrough story, and then filed a Title IX complaint, and it was only then that hundreds of others, including those who had already filed complaints previously, to their schools and to the police, believed that there was a chance for traction, and that Nassar would be brought to justice in the court system.

There is no evidence whatsoever than Brennan co-erced or blackmailed anyone to come forward through her investigation, so I don't see any taint in people coming forward once the facts, ie, the upgrade by SafeSport to a more serious status, plus further investigative reporting were published, any more than I think reports by hundreds of Nassar victims who came forward and made public victim statements at Nassar's sentencing hearing were tainted.

Rachel Denhollander was a lawyer and married mother of three before she contacted the Indianapolis Star, ie, a grown-up with a solid support system, plus a person whose faith and sense of justice were one. (Her Goliath was much bigger, though: Michigan State + USA Gymnastics + USOC, for which Woman's Gymnastics is the ultimate Summer Olympics cash cow.) Not every person who has been victimized should have to be Joan of Arc to be taken seriously.