Cipres accused of sexual misconduct

[Scrufflet]

This just came across my Facebook feed. Sexual misconduct is on a spectrum with a very large range of activities including the killing of women by their intimate partners. The following quote from the article has some relevance to our discussion here:

“...In media coverage of domestic violence, in social media conversations about intimate partner violence, and when we as individuals try to think through why tragedies like the Nov. 24 Schladetzky familicide in Minneapolis occur, the focus too frequently turns to what part the victim played in attracting violence. Our conversations rarely ask why men abuse women.

In an attempt to be helpful, we offer information about how women can leave abusive men or where the local shelters are located. But there are no messages for men about how to handle rage or cope nonviolently with life, and that absence is a telling one.
Socially and culturally, we hold women responsible for the violence that men do,...”

(The bold is mine.)

Star Tribune

Your source for Minnesota news today. Read articles, view photos or watch videos about news in Minneapolis, St. Paul, Duluth, St. Cloud, Rochester, and beyond.

m.startribune.com

So glad you brought this to our attention. This article is excellent.

 

[UGG]

I feel very sorry for you. I still do not think it’s appropriate for people on this board to assume they know how the child feels.

the Overall amateur psychological act the poster was putting out needs to be discouraged. Especially if the act is based on her Statement that the kid must’ve encouraged the skater to send him a picture of a penis. Nothing encourages anyone to send a picture of a penis but the ego of the jerk sending.

yea seriously. I mean how hard is it to not send a picture of your dick if you know the request came from a 13 year old? There are 10000000 other things I can think of to do other than be like ‍♂oh ok.

 

[canbelto]

And this is where everyone needs to do better. Skaters need to be more vocal that harassing rivals is not okay. In this respect Yuna Kim, Michelle Kwan, and some other skaters were disappointingly silent when their fans went a little cray-cray. Fans need to stop this harassment of skaters. It sounds like the threat of having a bunch of crazed fans was too much for the 13 year old girl.

 

[wickedwitch]

It’s why Ashley Wagner did not come forward at 17 when she was sexually assaulted by John C. She was a nobody back then and he was a much bigger star. She would have been sabotaged, no one would have believed her, she would have been dismissed, everyone on skating forums would be saying she wanted attention, she probably would have quit.
She eventually became much bigger than him and that’s why she was taken seriously. It’s really sad.

No, she was the bigger star at the time. She was a national senior medalist, and he was not. So that's not why she chose to wait.

 

[UGG]

No, she was the bigger star at the time. She was a national senior medalist, and he was not. So that's not why she chose to wait.

I am pretty sure she didn’t “choose” to wait and if that’s what you got out of my post then I feel sorry for you.

 

[Tinami Amori]

There were several memes going around social media about this.
and on and on.

I like this one...

https://media0.giphy.com/media/LsbJipCQdbfs4/source.gif

 

[wickedwitch]

I am pretty sure she didn’t “choose” to wait and if that’s what you got out of my post then I feel sorry for you.

All I meant was their respective skating fame was not the reason she didn't report her sexual assault at the time. What do you think I meant?

(If anything, it shows how universal the pressure is to not report sexual assault or harassment. Ashley, the more famous and successful skater, didn't report it.)

 

[Japanfan]

The whole 1980's and 90's were about approval and in some cases encourangement women being bluntly sexual and talking dirty about men, as part of equality of sexes trend..

And your point is? Your are talking about a behavior that is (hopefully - at least in some cases) chosen.

Sounds to me like you are victim blaming here - e.g. "Well if a woman talks dirty to a man, and something bad/unwelcome happens to a woman, then it's her fault'.

There is an absolute and obvious double standard taking place! If any of these "activities on stage/screen" were performed or arranged by men, these men would be lynched!

Men have done much worse. It is they who for the most part are the pimps, the pornographers, the sex traffickers, the individuals who watch/sell underage girls (or boys) engaging in sexual acts, the singers who write misogynistic lyrics, the bosses who harass female (and sometimes male) staff.

And keep in mind that when women engage in sexually-oriented behavior, it is a often a turn-on to men (SFAIK). Men do not generally feel threatened by women. When women observe or are subject to the same behavior (non-consensual situation) - it can be both scary and triggering .

To give another example, the lower paid an actress is, the less power she has to say about about nude shots. I read sometime ago that for a man, nude/pelvic shots are considered an honour. Again, because men are not afraid of women as women are of men, and not continually subject to the sexual objectification perpetrated largely by men (not denying that women can be complicit).

Women, including me, fight for equal rights with men, not for more rights than men.

But there are some cases - too many - in which men and women are not equal. For example, most domestic abusers of adult women are men. Rights protections have to meet needs. The right to reproductive choice does not apply to men because they can not get pregnant.

But if a woman does domestically abuse a man, then her rights should be equal to men who do the same to a woman.

If a woman is walking alone on a dark campus at night versus a man, the woman is most likely to be afraid and call security. But if a man is scared and did the same, he is entitled to the same protection.

But what do we get now? what's ok for a woman, is not ok for man. Had a "slit-pic" been sent instead of "dick-pic" this may have been another story. Even using "slit" will anger people more than "dick" word, and yet they are the same.

Who said it was okay for a woman to send slit pics to a boy, most particularly a child or teen boy.? I think there are plenty of people who would get terribly upset if an adult female did that. Thing is, SFAIK the majority of individuals who do this are males (not referring to consensual DMs between men and men). That does not mean that the adult female should be treated any different from a male, if both engage in the same questionable/inappropriate/illegal activity.

Could you please clarify the point of your post, Tinami?

... but, at the same time, there is another group of girls and parents, who do not want their girls to be exposed to "male penis" in dressing rooms and bathrooms of their school. But they are called "transgenderphobic" and told by one Judge that the girls' rights to privacy of their bodies and not being exposed to a male naked body/penis is superseded by "more important transgender rights".

ITA with you on this.

Women's rights always get sidelined - one step forward, and two back. For example, we used to 'Women's Studies' at the universities here. Women finally got their own discipline. Now, it is 'Gender, Sexuality and Women's Studies (something like that). With women coming last.

I'm troubled by the issue of bathrooms with regard to trans. Some girls/women might be triggered or uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a biological male.

Here, that issue is usually handled by having a trans bathroom (often same as the disabled bathroom). I imagine it's the same elsewhere.

SFAIK,

“A female student (who is not a plaintiff but who had been sexually assaulted previously) was exposed to Student A’s penis.”

Do Students Have A Right Not To Be Seen Naked By Someone Of (Anatomically Speaking) The Other Sex?

Do students have a right to privacy that includes not being seen in a partially clothed or unclothed state by members of the opposite sex? Courts are divided.

www.forbes.com

[/QUOTE]

(the following has nothing to do with Cipres case, cultural differences, his good or bad motivations, if she asked for fotos or not... she was 13, that was illegal.).

... on other, more general issues raised in the process of this discussion:

The whole 1980's and 90's were about approval and in some cases encourangement women being bluntly sexual and talking dirty about men, as part of equality of sexes trend..

Sex and the City - Funny Samantha quotes

I was thinking of doing a collection from all seasons but all of these quotes are from seasons 5 and 6 and they were enough for one video. I might make anoth...

www.youtube.com

....and as Madonna said it "it is all about sex, and I will show people how to be sexually provocative".

Madonna - Clip about "Sex" Book on Vh1 Shocking Moments

Madonna discusses the Sex book

www.youtube.com

.... Madonna, who now claims to be the epitome of PC and women movement, and all other bs she is pushing, made a film where she is gang-raped and enjoys it... "A Certain Sacrifice".

A Certain Sacrifice - Madonna - deutscher Trailer

Trailer zum Madonna-Film A CERTAIN SACRIFICE DVD hier erhältlich: http://www.amazon.de/dp/B016TFEKTG

www.youtube.com

... she and many other "entertainers" created "art" talking dirty, putting men in bondage, grabbing their organs, simulating sexual violence and advances..... there are many examples, i'll just give one Miley Cyrus.... who OH SO POPULAR with teen girls...

https://ddbuckingham.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/miley-cyrus.jpg?w=1024&h=683

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/30/article-2406313-1B78BBE7000005DC-168_634x730.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/15/article-2560242-1B85D18300000578-984_634x950.jpg

She even stuck a Jewish Star of David up her vagina....... But oh, gosh, nobody found that "offensive to the Jews".

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/18/11/2D86005000000578-3277735-image-a-43_1445164039880.jpg

There is an absolute and obvious double standard taking place! If any of these "activities on stage/screen" were performed or arranged by men, these men would be lynched!

Women, including me, fight for equal rights with men, not for more rights than men.

But what do we get now? what's ok for a woman, is not ok for man. Had a "slit-pic" been sent instead of "dick-pic" this may have been another story. Even using "slit" will anger people more than "dick" word, and yet they are the same.

I am personally against ANYbody, sending ANY unsolicited fotos of sexual organs, to ANYbody, unless "it is a group of people who willingly agreed in advance that being part of this group includes such exchange". I personally think that any form of "flashing" is an invasion of privacy, unless agreed in advance.

And yet we have another double standard: It is awful for a 13 year old to receive a foto of another's sexual organ (male or female) regardless of the age and gender of the sender. This girl and her parents are correct to be outraged.

... but, at the same time, there is another group of girls and parents, who do not want their girls to be exposed to "male penis" in dressing rooms and bathrooms of their school. But they are called "transgenderphobic" and told by one Judge that the girls' rights to privacy of their bodies and not being exposed to a male naked body/penis is superseded by "more important transgender rights".

“A female student (who is not a plaintiff but who had been sexually assaulted previously) was exposed to Student A’s penis.”

Do Students Have A Right Not To Be Seen Naked By Someone Of (Anatomically Speaking) The Other Sex?

Do students have a right to privacy that includes not being seen in a partially clothed or unclothed state by members of the opposite sex? Courts are divided.

www.forbes.com

 

[VGThuy]

And this is where everyone needs to do better. Skaters need to be more vocal that harassing rivals is not okay. In this respect Yuna Kim, Michelle Kwan, and some other skaters were disappointingly silent when their fans went a little cray-cray. Fans need to stop this harassment of skaters. It sounds like the threat of having a bunch of crazed fans was too much for the 13 year old girl.

To be fair to Kwan, it was the days before social media and fans mostly kept it to message boards and chat lines. Now with social media fans are attacking skaters and other fans directly on personal or at least personal enough accounts.

 

[Tinami Amori]

------

I am not going to even reply to your comments. you should bother to read what i staid in red before my post, and what comment i was replying to, which had nothing to do with this case and was about "men vs. women talking dirty".

If a person does not automatically yells "lynch that dude" each time a case of harassment comes up, there are always people who will call it "victim blaming", because the "other poster" did not, in their opinion, expressed enough outrage, or did not phrase opinion as they think one should

Nobody on this board said that MC, D, Z/F are not guilty, nobody! There are 4 adults, with 3 different offenses, against a 13-year girl. But the puzzle of this case is missing pieces, somethings unknown, some sequence of events is unexplained, and people are curious and discussing various version. It's not victim blaming. It's a discussion, and discussion as such often raises other issues..
--
And let me give another piece of info for this "puzzle", just FYI. I mentioned it in earlier pages 6 or 7, but not in detail. People can interpret it anyway they like. Besides doing what's wrong and illegal to a 13 year old, Morgan Cipres appears to be an exhibitionist, a narcissist, who is hell-bent on the "beauty of his body" and wants to show him self naked quite often.

I saw his "nudes" before, on a Russian skating fans forum, where there are some ladies and school-age girls (judging by their comments) in the last 1-2 years were giggling at the many photos his "self exposure".

Morgan Cipres is friends with a French nude/semi-porno/erotic photographer, who lives in Paris. His name is Mateo Armand. He photographs nude and semi-nude men, and sells their photos on line, or for their own use.

mateo armand

Explore mateo armand’s 395 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

mateo armand (@mateographie) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from mateo armand (@mateographie). French art photographer - specialized in male nudity - based in Paris. Paris

twitter.com

Morgan Cipres posted quite of few of these fotos on line. All nude, and private parts and all. I found some of them (the rest are gone).
Here is one from the Russian site (penis is cropped off the photo), it was a whole set, but this one is decent.

http://s9.uploads.ru/0dkFm.png

Here are few more (i made sure they are cropped in the right place, non-offensive for any age, but you can see where he is holding his part on one of them)

https://i.imgur.com/AaYa26G.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hBgHZiZ.jpg

I rolled my eyes then, but did not want to bring it to FSU, because people are so eager to accuse others of wrong intentions.

 

[MAXSwagg]

From one end of the spectrum to another: the NCAA with billions of $$$$ on the line, and skating, gymnatics, equestrian, etc...


There were several memes going around social media about this. The one I remember (ish) best was explaining going to a parking garage and what the person had to think about. (Paraphrasing)

Column A: Men
* I forgot my keys

Column B: Women
*I better have parked in a well-lit place, close to a security camera
*I need to check out the area from afar, to see if anyone is around
*If I see a man, I wait for him to leave.
*My keys are in my fingers in case I'm attacked.
*My finger is poised over the alarm phone app button
*My car uses a fob, so I don't have to waste time fumbling with keys in the door.
*I ask to be accompanied by Security, and hope for the female security guard

and on and on.

Very sexist meme.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

I was very disturbed looking at Sylvia Fontana's Instagram ... No comment why. Just take a look.

Did she post a dickpic?

 

[cocotaffy]

Very sexist meme.

Pretty realistic imo. I can cetainly identify with scenario B, that list is a classic taught by my mum, whose mum taught her many self-preservation technics too and on and on I suppose. My daughter knows of them and yet I wonder if any boys has to be taught any of those. Maybe we assume wrongly men feel safer than women in the public space. Surely, some men feel threatened too but somehow I don't think most guys have automated long lists of prerequisite preemptive moves they have to do in so many varied occasions: parking lots, walking when its dark, public transportation, taking a taxi late at night or worse when coming out of a party and the list goes on.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Pretty realistic imo. I can cetainly identify with scenario B, that list is a classic taught by my mum, whose mum taught her many self-preservation technics too and on and on I suppose. My daughter knows of them and yet I wonder if any boys has to be taught any of those. Maybe we assume wrongly men feel safer than women in the public space. Surely, some men feel threatened too but somehow I don't think most guys have automated long lists of prerequisite preemptive moves they have to do in so many varied occasions: parking lots, walking when its dark, public transportation, taking a taxi late at night or worse when coming out of a party and the list goes on.

Sounds like things white people “worry” about when they see a black or brown person around...

 

[once_upon]

No it's all men.
Maybe it's a little higher for poc, I can't really say, I hope that's not the case. Its definitely all men. My experience with assualt or intimidation have been with white men.

 

[cocotaffy]

Sounds like things white people “worry” about when they see a black or brown person around...

What the heck are you talking about ???? But I probably shouldn't even ask. So many offensive assumptions in your post. This has nothing to do with black, white or any other color. This has something to do with entitlement and a severe lack of knowing anything about consent and objectification. For your info, my own worst encounter was with a white man not that it makes the teed bit of difference because what was most important is that I was young enough to think what I was wearing must have triggered something that I had to bury that piece of clothing so deep somewhere, never talked about it and just try to cope on my own.

 

[Frau Muller]

I am not going to even reply to your comments. you should bother to read what i staid in red before my post, and what comment i was replying to, which had nothing to do with this case and was about "men vs. women talking dirty".

If a person does not automatically yells "lynch that dude" each time a case of harassment comes up, there are always people who will call it "victim blaming", because the "other poster" did not, in their opinion, expressed enough outrage, or did not phrase opinion as they think one should

Nobody on this board said that MC, D, Z/F are not guilty, nobody! There are 4 adults, with 3 different offenses, against a 13-year girl. But the puzzle of this case is missing pieces, somethings unknown, some sequence of events is unexplained, and people are curious and discussing various version. It's not victim blaming. It's a discussion, and discussion as such often raises other issues..
--
And let me give another piece of info for this "puzzle", just FYI. I mentioned it in earlier pages 6 or 7, but not in detail. People can interpret it anyway they like. Besides doing what's wrong and illegal to a 13 year old, Morgan Cipres appears to be an exhibitionist, a narcissist, who is hell-bent on the "beauty of his body" and wants to show him self naked quite often.

I saw his "nudes" before, on a Russian skating fans forum, where there are some ladies and school-age girls (judging by their comments) in the last 1-2 years were giggling at the many photos his "self exposure".

Morgan Cipres is friends with a French nude/semi-porno/erotic photographer, who lives in Paris. His name is Mateo Armand. He photographs nude and semi-nude men, and sells their photos on line, or for their own use.

mateo armand

Explore mateo armand’s 395 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

mateo armand (@mateographie) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from mateo armand (@mateographie). French art photographer - specialized in male nudity - based in Paris. Paris

twitter.com

Morgan Cipres posted quite of few of these fotos on line. All nude, and private parts and all. I found some of them (the rest are gone).
Here is one from the Russian site (penis is cropped off the photo), it was a whole set, but this one is decent.

http://s9.uploads.ru/0dkFm.png

Here are few more (i made sure they are cropped in the right place, non-offensive for any age, but you can see where he is holding his part on one of them)

https://i.imgur.com/AaYa26G.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hBgHZiZ.jpg

I rolled my eyes then, but did not want to bring it to FSU, because people are so eager to accuse others of wrong intentions.

It sounds as if Vinnie Dispenza could have saved himself the cost of a pizza (and a whole lot more) by going to these sites to obtain “dick pics” of Cipres, if that’s what he craved.

 

[Japanfan]

Sounds like things white people “worry” about when they see a black or brown person around...

Sez a white man who clearly has no idea about women's reality, no awareness of it, and no interest in it.

Most if not all the women on this board and elsewhere can relate to the list of precautionary measures listed above.

And white men are no more or no less likely to harass a woman than men of colour. SFAIK, the incidence of sexual discrimination, harrasment and assault is about the same across classes and ehtnicities (although there are some exceptions, like refugee camps where rape is unfortunately sometimes a daily reality).

 

[nimi]

And white men are no more or no less likely to harass a woman than men of colour. SFAIK, the incidence of sexual discrimination, harrasment and assault is about the same across classes and ehtnicities

Yeah, so why the earlier post insinuating that the existence of gender studies and trans women erode women's rights and bodily autonomy? You wrote (and I agree) that sexual objectification is perpetrated largely by men; how is scapegoating trans women supposed to help us as a society to address this?

Women's rights always get sidelined - one step forward, and two back. For example, we used to 'Women's Studies' at the universities here. Women finally got their own discipline. Now, it is 'Gender, Sexuality and Women's Studies (something like that). With women coming last.

I'm troubled by the issue of bathrooms with regard to trans. Some girls/women might be triggered or uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a biological male.

Here, that issue is usually handled by having a trans bathroom (often same as the disabled bathroom). I imagine it's the same elsewhere.

SFAIK,

“A female student (who is not a plaintiff but who had been sexually assaulted previously) was exposed to Student A’s penis.”

Do Students Have A Right Not To Be Seen Naked By Someone Of (Anatomically Speaking) The Other Sex?

Do students have a right to privacy that includes not being seen in a partially clothed or unclothed state by members of the opposite sex? Courts are divided.

www.forbes.com

I'm not from USA but I wonder what sort of bathrooms do you have over there to be worried about being exposed to other people's genitals? Are there no stalls? Or are the stalls in your ladies' bathrooms typically made of plexi glass? Or are people so worried that the lady in the next stall might be trans that they routinely climb on the toilet and peek over the partition in order to check her genital status? Is there no difference between bathrooms and locker rooms? Because it looks like you were talking about women' bathrooms and then posted a somewhat misleading article talking about a dispute over girls' locker rooms to prove your point. (Snopes did some fact-checking, in case you're interested in the facts of the case.)

This PSA is from 2013 but since for some reason we're still having this same discussion about bathrooms: Everyone Poops (Transgender People Included)

1. Even if restrooms were gender-neutral and there was nothing stopping men from entering, assault would still be illegal.
2. Someone terrible enough to assault someone in a bathroom isn’t going to let a sign on a door stand in their way.
3. In the 174 cities and counties where transgender people are explicitly protected in terms of public accommodations (like bathrooms), I cannot, for the life of me, find a single instance where a man has thrown on a dress and assaulted a woman or a child. This is a case of a solution in search of a problem.
4. While their “man in a dress” argument isn’t based in reality, transgender women forced to use men’s restrooms do find themselves targets for that kind of abuse.

Is the well-being of transgender people really so inconsequential? Do you really not care whether or not we’re raped, assaulted or murdered?

Is Morgan Ciprés a trans woman? No. Are trans women responsible for the vast majority of dick pics, gendered harassment etc. that's being discussed in this thread? Nope. I'm sure you can find some cases of a trans person being a predator, like you can find examples of cis women being predators, but there is no evidence that trans women are any more dangerous to cis women than other cis women; OTOH trans people themselves experience shocking amounts of violence and discrimination, and even murder, esp. trans women of color. AFAIK there are still zero documented cases of trans women attacking cis women in bathrooms, whereas there are several cases where a) a predatory man has entered ladies' bathroom in order to assault somebody (see previous page) and b) cis women have been harassed by bigoted individuals who have taken it upon themselves to be the Gender Police and punish a woman who is too tall or too masculine or whose hair is too short or whose chest is too flat etc.

(In case you wonder, this feels somewhat personal to me because I, a queer cis woman, used to walk around with a shaven head & no make-up in my teens. Luckily in my country "bathroom bills" and systematic anti-trans fake news & hate campaigns by the right-wing media aren't really a thing and the administration isn't actively working to marginalize, ban and cancel trans people, so nobody felt emboldened to attack me in women' bathrooms for the crime of not looking Traditionally Feminine and Biologically Female enough or whatever.)

 

[MsZem]

This just came across my Facebook feed. Sexual misconduct is on a spectrum with a very large range of activities including the killing of women by their intimate partners. The following quote from the article has some relevance to our discussion here:

“...In media coverage of domestic violence, in social media conversations about intimate partner violence, and when we as individuals try to think through why tragedies like the Nov. 24 Schladetzky familicide in Minneapolis occur, the focus too frequently turns to what part the victim played in attracting violence. Our conversations rarely ask why men abuse women.

In an attempt to be helpful, we offer information about how women can leave abusive men or where the local shelters are located. But there are no messages for men about how to handle rage or cope nonviolently with life, and that absence is a telling one.
Socially and culturally, we hold women responsible for the violence that men do,...”

(The bold is mine.)

Star Tribune

Your source for Minnesota news today. Read articles, view photos or watch videos about news in Minneapolis, St. Paul, Duluth, St. Cloud, Rochester, and beyond.

m.startribune.com

I agree that the only way for rape and sexual harassment to stop is for people (primarily men) not to rape. This is something that can be taught to some extent: there's certainly more awareness now about the importance of affirmative consent, for instance, even if there is still a lot of work to be done.

There are some men, however, who cannot be taught not to rape. They want to do it and enjoy doing it. Or they just don't care about having consenting partners. When that's the case, I don't think you can't reach them through magazines articles: interventions might work, but the professional kind, not the glossy mag kind. If interventions are not effective, the criminal justice system has to deal with them. That means taking reports of domestic violence seriously; it means testing rape kits rather than stashing them in warehouses and leaving those responsible free to commit more sexual assaults (more on that here). It means taking survivors seriously when they make their reports.

The people who can't be taught are not the majority of men, but women can encounter them, and should be empowered to recognize warning signals and protect themselves to the extent possible, just as we protect ourselves from other crimes. Other people might also be able to intervene and help if they are aware of warning signs. This does not mean that if anyone is sexually assaulted it is somehow their fault. The only person responsible for a rape is the rapist.

To those who have shared their personal stories in this thread, I am so sorry if you were made to feel guilty or responsible by people you should have been able to trust. I hope you also had people in your lives who supported you when you needed them.

 

[Japanfan]

Yeah, so why the earlier post insinuating that the existence of gender studies and trans women erode women's rights and bodily autonomy?

With regard to gender studies, I prefer for women to have their own discipline, 'Women's Studies'.

Women's rights are frequently being eroded (obviously, the US today is a prime example). IMO, putting 'gender' before 'women' in the title of a course, tends to put women 'second' (e.g. The Second Sex). I do understand the value of 'Gender Studies', but wish 'Women's Studies' existed alongside it. Part of my job is being a tutor, and I tutored several women through Women's Studies 101. It was fascinating! And so interseting to see how eye-opening the class was for the young women I tutored.

Because you were talking about ladies' bathrooms and then posted a somewhat misleading article talking about a girls' locker room dispute to prove your point. (Snopes did some fact-checking, in case you're interested in facts)

I did not link an article in this thread. Look back through my posts, if you like.

And please do correct that part of your post. You are accusing me of doing something I did not do.

You wrote (and I agree) that sexual objectification is perpetrated largely by men; how is scapegoating trans women supposed to help us as a society to address this?

It won't. I said nothing to indicate otherwise.

I am not scapegoating them. To a certain extent they are not responsible for how they are presented in course titles or other official affairs. My focus is on those who are responsible and how their decisions impact women's identity/equality/self-realization. Of course, the decision affects trans people as well. But given that at least 90% (to hazard a guess) of the women who take Gender Studies will be straight, it makes to me to put 'Women' first.

As I just said, I'd like women to retain their discipline.

I'm not from USA but I wonder what sort of bathrooms do you have over there to be worried about being exposed to other people's genitals? Are there no stalls? Or are the stalls in your ladies' bathrooms typically made of plexi glass? Or are you so worried about the lady in the next stall might be trans that you take it upon yourself to climb on the toilet and peek over the partition in order to check her genital status?

I wasn't referring to nudity. Rather, I was referring to a girl/woman seeing biological male (see my previous post, I said that already) come into what she is used to being a female private space. If the girl/woman had been sexually abused or assaulted or spied on by a boy/man, she might feel very unsafe in what she has thought of as a private space.

I can see I touched a nerve in you, and am sorry for that. Please understand that my post didn't reflect any negative views of trans - I don't have any. My focus is on women.

 

[nimi]

I did not post an article in this thread. Look by through my posts, if you like.

You didn't post the Forbes article in your earlier post that I clicked on? Now I'm REALLY confused

 

[MsZem]

You didn't post the Forbes article in your earlier post that I clicked on? Now I'm REALLY confused

Japanfan was trying to quote Tinami's earlier post and must have messed up something. The Forbes link came from her post.

 

[nimi]

Japanfan was trying to quote Tinami's earlier post and must have messed up something. The Forbes link came from her post.

Thanks, that explains it! (Well, that and Tinami being on my ignore list lol)

 

[Japanfan]

Japanfan was trying to quote Tinami's earlier post and must have messed up something. The Forbes link came from her post.

Yes. If you look at the post you'll see the link comes before the [/QUOTE].

 

[UGG]

And this is where everyone needs to do better. Skaters need to be more vocal that harassing rivals is not okay. In this respect Yuna Kim, Michelle Kwan, and some other skaters were disappointingly silent when their fans went a little cray-cray. Fans need to stop this harassment of skaters. It sounds like the threat of having a bunch of crazed fans was too much for the 13 year old girl.

From what I recall, most fan bases found Kwan fans annoying but I don’t recall her fan base harassing other fans and I never recall skaters being harassed. The biggest scandal was that they brought purple Pom Pom’s to a competition. Nothing like Yu-Na fans at all.

 

[antmanb]

From what I recall, most fan bases found Kwan fans annoying but I don’t recall her fan base harassing other fans and I never recall skaters being harassed. The biggest scandal was that they brought purple Pom Pom’s to a competition. Nothing like Yu-Na fans at all.

The fan wars between Kwan and Lipinski fans was where I cut my teeth on the internet. There were vile fans on each side, however, social media and the fast escalation to who can outdo someone in the vile stakes means the crazy of the Yunabots was on a much bigger scale. Social media allows people to send vile things directly to skaters nowadays so the skater harassment is of our time now.

 

[canbelto]

@UGG there was a lot of harassment of Tara Lipinski. The Yunabots and their Mao/Adelina harassment was on another level though. But before the days of social media the Sergei widows and their harassment of Ilia Kulik was pretty creepy.

 

[PRlady]

To defend @Japanfan - there are indeed trans activists who take it to an extreme, attacking The Vagina Monologues for being transphobic and insisting on the right of biological men to be in women’s’ safe spaces like women’s shelters. It’s more prevalent in the U.K. than US but it’s there, but I’ll stop before being called a TERF. I do think that women who have been women biologically since birth have experienced the world differently than someone who at least started in a male body, but this is OT.

Anyone receiving an unsolicited sexual photo is within rights of feeling assaulted. A gay guy I knew as a teen told me much later that his dad made him look through Playboy to “change his mind” and that’s pretty awful as well.

 

[Sedge]

Background article in USA Today new Dec 13th

The Backstory: Stories of sexual abuse would remain hidden without journalists

Olympic sports have a troubling pattern when it comes to young athletes alleging abuse and adults denying it. Our journalists surface these stories.

www.usatoday.com