Meddling: New Documentary On Peacock about the 2002 Salt Lake Pairs Scandal

allezfred said:
Bad judging is cheating. One of the two judges was Canadian.
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That is Ben Lavoie. The same judge who placed Sale & Pelletier a whopping .3 ahead of Berezhnya & Sikhardlidze in the LP at the 2001 worlds even with a singled axel. And only had Elena & Anton ahead of Sale & Pelletier. in the short program on a tiebreaker where Jamie basically fell on a triple toe. Totally corrupt flag waving judge who should have been booted from the sport long ago.
 
Fadeevfanboy said:
Yeah but they were from a tiny country with no power, so nobody said anything. What a joke.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the Lithunian judge who placed them 3rd in the FD (and the only judge who had them higher than the Italians in the FD, which every judge should have) was given a reprimand for "national bias".
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Arguments could be made that Lithuanians could have ranked 2nd. I rewatched Lobacheva/Averbukh's FD at SLC a few months ago. They seem sloppier and more lacking in content than I remembered from the past.
 
Pink Cats said:
The IOC from what I remember basically told the ISU to make the problem go away and typically the ISU rather than doing a real investigation did just enough to shut the press up. The sanctions where for cheating not bad judging.
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I’m not sure if everyone doesn’t realize how humiliating and embarrassing this was for the ISU. There’s a big difference with worlds and then this happening at the Olympics with the world watching. Cinquanta would never have done anything without what happened.
 
Judy said:
I’m not sure if everyone doesn’t realize how humiliating and embarrassing this was for the ISU. There’s a big difference with worlds and then this happening at the Olympics with the world watching. Cinquanta would never have done anything without what happened.
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The new judging system was already in the works before 2002. But it wouldn't have been rushed into effect without the scandal.
 
I haven't seen the series, however I remember shortly after the 2002 Games, there was an ice show (not SOI, maybe Skate the Nation?) touring Canada that had both S/P and B/S. I was at the 'meet and greet' after a show and Elena looked like she felt completely out of place and almost appeared scared. She was so incredibly gracious when I went up to her and complimented B/S, as it seemed that she wasn't expecting friendly comments from fans at a Canadian ice show.
 
gkelly said:
The new judging system was already in the works before 2002. But it wouldn't have been rushed into effect without the scandal.
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I always wondered if they would have spent the next four years tweaking it and then debuting it in the 2006-07 season as opposed to rushing it to the 2003-04 season and then majorly re-working it for the 04-05 season, and then adding level 4 in the 05-06 season.
 
screech said:
I haven't seen the series, however I remember shortly after the 2002 Games, there was an ice show (not SOI, maybe Skate the Nation?) touring Canada that had both S/P and B/S. I was at the 'meet and greet' after a show and Elena looked like she felt completely out of place and almost appeared scared. She was so incredibly gracious when I went up to her and complimented B/S, as it seemed that she wasn't expecting friendly comments from fans at a Canadian ice show.
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I think it would have been SOI that was the only tour in Canada.
 
This is in response to people "not liking" Jamie.

Jamie has facial expressions very similar to Nancy. Both have been perceived to have an air of superiority. Its an interesting coincidence that two of our most "scandalous" incidents involve with woman who have a similar look. The more I have learned about each of these women I understand they are shy, not in love with the spotlight, likely uncomfortable in that situation...and are rather humble and STRONG. This is not how either are portrayed and not how I saw them many years ago when these events actually occurred. I think the face presents an attitude that is not really there.

My apologies if this has been discussed prior; I am not a common poster.
 
Quick thing here, I have the next episode of meddling to watch. I was telling @SidelineSkater that the Olympic channel is airing 30 episode of a show called “the edge” which is the Montreal based ice dancing dancers and it’s so good. He told me to watch it and I found it by chance on the Olympic channel!!!


My question is even though this has been discussed probably forever peacock also has that Tonya and Nancy show which I have learned more things that I didn’t know and I thought I knew it all. It’s quite an interesting show. I mean there is stuff in there I did not know from before. I doubt this being discussed anywhere?
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
Quick thing here, I have the next episode of meddling to watch. I was telling @SidelineSkater that the Olympic channel is airing 30 episode of a show called “the edge” which is the Montreal based ice dancing dancers and it’s so good. He told me to watch it and I found it by chance on the Olympic channel!!!


My question is even though this has been discussed probably forever peacock also has that Tonya and Nancy show which I have learned more things that I didn’t know and I thought I knew it all. It’s quite an interesting show. I mean there is stuff in there I did not know from before. I doubt this being discussed anywhere?
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The more recent interviews of both women I found interesting.
 
Judy said:
I think it would have been SOI that was the only tour in Canada.
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SOI didn't come to the city where I lived, so it was definitely a different one.
Around that time there were a few tours that went around Canada. There was even a 3rd one (where I worked backstage) that came around the same time too. I remember that one because B/S weren't in it, but Surya Bonalay was. And I remember it vividly because me and a friend/co-volunteer were walking backstage and the mens dressing room door was open and we (then in our late teens) saw David Pelletier changing. Jamie Sale came up to us and chuckled and said 'not bad, eh?' This was before everyone knew they were together (but everyone suspected).
 
screech said:
SOI didn't come to the city where I lived, so it was definitely a different one.
Around that time there were a few tours that went around Canada. There was even a 3rd one (where I worked backstage) that came around the same time too. I remember that one because B/S weren't in it, but Surya Bonalay was. And I remember it vividly because me and a friend/co-volunteer were walking backstage and the mens dressing room door was open and we (then in our late teens) saw David Pelletier changing. Jamie Sale came up to us and chuckled and said 'not bad, eh?' This was before everyone knew they were together (but everyone suspected).
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Ok .. I’m struggling to remember if I went that year. Maybe … I remember seeing them both. Lol at David Pelletier 😂.
 
I was there! said:
This is in response to people "not liking" Jamie.

Jamie has facial expressions very similar to Nancy. Both have been perceived to have an air of superiority. Its an interesting coincidence that two of our most "scandalous" incidents involve with woman who have a similar look. The more I have learned about each of these women I understand they are shy, not in love with the spotlight, likely uncomfortable in that situation...and are rather humble and STRONG. This is not how either are portrayed and not how I saw them many years ago when these events actually occurred. I think the face presents an attitude that is not really there.

My apologies if this has been discussed prior; I am not a common poster.
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I agree that is very much a factor.

Also that both got a lot of questionable gifts by the judges in their career, which were glossed over and virtually ignored by all but some fans. Then when they each had their one and only ever questionable loss at the Olympics it supposably was this big "scandal" that none of the prior gifts in their favor were, even if thankfully the Lillehammer ladies did not reach the charade of the SLC pairs to the media (a lot of that is a mentally ill judge not coming forward confessing to something in the former). That is off putting to a lot of people, especialy in retrospect.
 
Fadeevfanboy said:
I agree that is very much a factor.

Also that both got a lot of questionable gifts by the judges in their career, which were glossed over and virtually ignored by all but some fans. Then when they each had their one and only ever questionable loss at the Olympics it supposably was this big "scandal" that none of the prior gifts in their favor were, even if thankfully the Lillehammer ladies did not reach the charade of the SLC pairs to the media (a lot of that is a mentally ill judge not coming forward confessing to something in the former). That is off putting to a lot of people, especialy in retrospect.
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Not sure about your inability to grasp that a judge confessed to cheating. That was a game changer, if she hadn’t, then the results would have stood. Didier was the only one accusing her of mental instability when it happened. Why? To protect himself. It wasn’t hard to believe that Didier was the one running around bragging of placements. Good riddance.

I am just shaking my head at the deliberate ignorance. Pretty sure this was the first time EVER that that any judge in the Olympics admitted to cheating.
 
Fadeevfanboy said:
I agree that is very much a factor.

Also that both got a lot of questionable gifts by the judges in their career, which were glossed over and virtually ignored by all but some fans. Then when they each had their one and only ever questionable loss at the Olympics it supposably was this big "scandal" that none of the prior gifts in their favor were, even if thankfully the Lillehammer ladies did not reach the charade of the SLC pairs to the media (a lot of that is a mentally ill judge not coming forward confessing to something in the former). That is off putting to a lot of people, especialy in retrospect.
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You realize that an ill judge would have been removed from the judging panel and their marks would be replaced with the alternate judge. In 2002 the alternate judge marks would have given S & P the win in the long program and the alone would have won the gold medal.
 
thvu said:
Again, Jean Senft was the only judge on the 1998 Oly Ice Dance panel that whose ordinals matched the "deal" in her recording. She was the first.
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Jean Senfy did not admit verbally in front of people that she cheated. If we go back in all previous worlds/Olympics there were always ordinals like that. That’s just not a viable argument.
 
Judy said:
Jean Senfy did not admit verbally in front of people that she cheated. If we go back in all previous worlds/Olympics there were always ordinals like that. That’s just not a viable argument.
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:rolleyes:

She went along with a plan to get her team a wanted medal, went over the top with making sure those ordinals happened, and only complained about it after it didn't happen. What don't you get?

Someone who was serious about the integrity of the sport would've bought that pen to record the conversation and then turned it right into the ISU before the event happened. But no.
 
Judy said:
Jean Senfy did not admit verbally in front of people that she cheated. If we go back in all previous worlds/Olympics there were always ordinals like that. That’s just not a viable argument.
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You are being purposefully obtuse. Weren't you just criticizing blind fandom?

There's a recording of her colluding with Balkov which states an order for the Dance Teams. Her ordinals matched the VERY SAME order, of which she released proof of her collusion.

In what "previous worlds/Olympics" did judges release evidence of their own collusion? What are you choosing not to understand here? How is there anything remotely comparable to this?

What isn't viable is your continued, irrational, & nationalistic defense of a known cheater.
 
thvu said:
You are being purposefully obtuse. Weren't you just criticizing blind fandom?

There's a recording of her colluding with Balkov which states an order for the Dance Teams. Her ordinals matched the VERY SAME order, of which she released proof of her collusion.

In what "previous worlds/Olympics" did judges release evidence of their own collusion? What are you choosing not to understand here? How is there anything remotely comparable to this?

What isn't viable is your continued, irrational, & nationalistic defense of a known cheater.
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😂😂😂😂
 
Watched all four episodes last evening. Excellent documentary. Thank you Todd and Tara. Wonderful to see some new footage and the extensive interviews, including the French judge herself. Learned quite a few things I had either forgotten or wasn’t aware of before. The part about Italian law enforcement wiretapping the Russian mobster for other crimes and unexpectedly recording phone conversations of the Russian mobster talking about arranging the judging deal between Russia and France in the SLC pairs and dance events. 🤯 Italy gave this information to the FBI resulting in its investigation.

Also loved some of David Pelletier’s pithy comments like “I’m in Canada training my Love Story program for the Olympics meanwhile a Russian mobster is fixing the result.” David was laughing very hard at the irony. Also his comment that it’s just figure skating…why are some people willing to go to crazy lengths behind the scenes to get a certain medal result? I agree! Seems nuts.

Interesting that the French judge claims she can’t recall now what she said immediately after the event to Stapleford or in the judges meeting the next day. But says they are lying about what she said. Also strange she could clearly recall a number of other conversations around that same time like with Gauillghet 🤨

I was in the audience at the SLC pairs event and was one of the 20,000 people booing the result in the arena. I immediately said to my friend it was a judging fix…and it was. What I do know is that no amount of evidence of cheating ( of which there is plenty of very credible evidence) will persuade the folks on this Board who have been bashing S&P for years to reconsider their position that there was nothing to see here. I am still very disturbed when I see evidence of all the cheating and deal making in figure skating’s history. 2002 is when the dirty laundry hit worldwide awareness. I always get especially nervous at every Olympics as to what kind of deals have been made and which corrupt judges will be on the panel. And who has been paid off or improperly influenced. I am hoping for fair judging in Beijing but not totally optimistic unfortunately.
 
mtnskater said:
Interesting that the French judge claims she can’t recall now what she said immediately after the event
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Isn’t that just special? Also like in 1994 when the judge said he couldn’t see Nancy’s triple triple in the free program? Really? These are adults? These are people the ISU will not ban for life? Figure skating is not that popular of a sport worldwide when you look at all of the sports there are out there and I can’t believe there’s just so much passion from the Eastern bloc to rig, fix the results
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
Isn’t that just special? Also like in 1994 when the judge said he couldn’t see Nancy’s triple triple in the free program? Really? These are adults? These are people the ISU will not ban for life? Figure skating is not that popular of a sport worldwide when you look at all of the sports there are out there and I can’t believe there’s just so much passion from the Eastern bloc to rig, fix the results
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There are so many qualified judges. Sending the same ones over and over, and refusing to ban the "bad apples" (most definitely including Jean Senft and Benoie Lavoie), is inexcusable. I'd like to see lifetime limits - e.g., two Olympics and ten World Championships, with no judge able to serve on consecutive World panels. This "old boys (and girls) club" leads to a lot of the cheating. Mix it up. Incent countries to train more judges.
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
Also like in 1994 when the judge said he couldn’t see Nancy’s triple triple in the free program?
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I never heard that one but that is hilarious. And I say that as someone who generally defended Baiul's win.

I also remember the Canadian judge who gave Browning a 5.9 for required elements in the short program at worlds when he doubled the required triple- his triple lutz. The judge said she thought she saw a triple. Such judges should be banned immediately either for dishonesty, or if they somehow are telling the truth sheer incompetence. There is no "angle" from the judging seat such blatant stupidity or blindness would be acceptable.
 
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