Cipres accused of sexual misconduct

[MsZem]

Mitterand paid for his second family with the government funds. But IMO you are refering to dear Valéry Giscard d'Estaing whose surname to this day is still "3 minutes, all included". But he's still alive.
Or maybe Hollande who was caught in a scooted going to see mistress 2 while living with mistress 1.
They are really typical french males. And it gives you an idea of where french society is at.
Which is pretty much how I think where said skater is in his mind about all this kind of stuffs.

I don't care who people are involved with so long as it's consenting adults (including one's partner consenting to an open relationship). I do care about things that involve minors or are otherwise not consensual.

Misuse of public funds isn't as bad as sexual abuse, but it isn't okay either.

 

[MarieM]

Welcome to France.

 

[cholla]

But IMO you are refering to dear Valéry Giscard d'Estaing whose surname to this day is still "3 minutes, all included".

For the record, it's 5 minutes (or 10 according to a different version) and it was Jacques Chirac, not VGE.

 

[TAHbKA]

But if we attribute male behavior only to 'thinking with his member' we sort of deny men an opportunity to grow as persons or be the best persons they can be.

Too bad too sad. And yet when I walk on the street alone in the dark I'd rather be smart than sorry. Why do the men deserve a benefit of a doubt and I don't deserve a right to walk safely on a street?

 

[MsZem]

Welcome to France.

As I was saying, I don't care if French guys are screwing (or sending dick pics to) consenting adults. But that's not what Cipres is accused of doing.

 

[MarieM]

For the record, it's 5 minutes (or 10 according to a different version) and it was Jacques Chirac, not VGE.

I tried to correct but too late LOL. And VGE had another nickname that I can't remember, but he was really the worst of them all in that area.

Zemgirl: I am trying to explain that it's a cultural problem in France that "pedophilie" still isn't high on the list of things to fix. I could prove it and I already did on the french forum. I'm certain that french men don't get that sending a dick pix to an underage girl. I could show you messages from my male friends who are stating that the problem is the 13yo girl who provoked poor guy to send a dick pix.

 

[TAHbKA]

The whole conversation reminds me a bit the stuff we were discussing a couple of years ago. Perhaps he wasn't drunk driving/perhaps the road conditions were bad/ perhaps it's the other driver's fault/ may be something was wrong with the car.... and being terribly sorry for Denkova.

 

[Japanfan]

Too bad too sad. And yet when I walk on the street alone in the dark I'd rather be smart than sorry. Why do the men deserve a benefit of a doubt and I don't deserve a right to walk safely on a street?

What I said was that in my view, all men do not think with their member - speaking more of older men here, not teenagers.

I too would rather be smart and safe walking on the street alone in the dark. Nothing I said indicated otherwise. And

I'm not saying men deserve the benefit of a doubt, not at all. To the contrary, my stance is more of 'be wary of all men' until I get a chance to know them. I'm far more inclined to call out men's behavior and the entitlement of white men in particular than many people, and it has caused instances of discomfort.

Saying all men 'think with their member' is a way of justifying their behavior IMO, as is saying 'boys will be boys'. It is dismissive in assuming that their behavior can't be changed, so we just have to put up with them as they are.

I would rather live in a world where men are held accountable and responsible for their behavior. A world in which it is believed that men can learn to behave with integrity and responsibility and be respectful towards women - which should start when men are boys and be emphasized in society at large. We are a long way from that of course and gender stereotypes are constantly being reinforced by the media and society at large.

It is men who get off the hook when we say 'he always thinks with his member'. I'd rather men be taught when that is and is not appropriate.

Basically, I think that view is disempowering for women. We are responsible to behave in ways that ensure men don't get carried away thinking with their members, which they can't help. If we are sexually harassed or assaulted, it is still seen as our fault since the men just can't help themselves (less so today than in times past, but that view is still unfortunately common).

Men use/can use their brains for thinking - up till now they have waged all the wars, made all the boardroom decisions that affect entire societies, established all the laws, governed the structures and norms of societies. (Hence we have the saying 'men talk, women chatter' ). Now, I'm not saying that they have used theirs brains well - but if not, I believe they can do better.

So let's require me to use their brains when it comes to sexual affairs. I think that at least some of them are up to the task.

I always don't believe men come of the womb wired to become soldiers and fight wars, FTR.

Rant over. Sorry to go off topic for a bit.

Carry on.

 

[Holy Headband]

The girl is very brave for speaking out despite all the intimidation and harassment she got from the rink (at 13!), and all the victim-blaming and character assassination she must have known would follow her statement. She deserves an honest apology, among other things, but I doubt it will ever come.

 

[canbelto]

The article (by a reporter with a history of sensationalism and sanctimoniousness) certainly didn’t say that Morgan Ciprès knew exactly whom he was sending the pictures to.

Instagram users not only do not often use their own photos in their profiles, but adopt all sorts of alias on their page if they are not public figures.

I do not wishfully hope for anything, perhaps except for Twitter social justice warriors not to swarm Vanessa James’s accounts demanding apology, denouncement or any gestural statement of solidarity. But I found your blanket statement on the usage of Instagram simply misleading (not to say untrue) for those who do not use it, and that your labeling sending a nude photo to someone “sexual “assault”” very inflammatory.

It would be clarifying to know about the IG interactions that took place. Why and how would a 13 year-old ask for someone’s nude pic through direct messaging, just because someone nonsensically offered pizza in return for that act? Why didn’t they let their parents know about that strange prodding if they felt uncomfortable right then and there?

Omg. Again with that victim blaming. Stop. Just stop.

 

[kittyjake5]

Can we please stop calling other members posts "victim blaming". Just saying....

 

[Holy Headband]

Can we please stop calling other members posts "victim blaming". Just saying....

No, why?

 

[overedge]

Even if Brennan, as @bcash alleges, has a reputation for sensationalism (which I don't agree with) you can bet that this story was thoroughly lawyered up before it was published. There would have been a lot more of a response than a general denial from a PR person if there were major factual errors or misrepresentations in it.

 

[Carolla5501]

I can’t believe that there are people who are so emotionally committed to a skater they’re trying to come up with Bizzarre scenarios where upon it would’ve been appropriate to send a picture of your penis. This man is an adult. Perhaps he should act like one. There is no circumstance, absolutely none, where sending a picture of your penis is appropriate. You are not a 12-year-old who just discovered this appendage. Act like an adult.

 

[once_upon]

It occurred to me that perhaps John and Silvia posed a question like "do you want us to report?" And then asked if she "was ready for the questions that will come from people especially the French because it is close to Olympics?" With the example statements that were presnted.

Which is just as bad or worse to ask a 13 year old to make an adult decision AND them not following through with mandated reporting.

Not saying that's how it happened and if it did it's worse. They are required by SafeSport and Florida law to report to several agencies.

ETA - I just realized I'm victim blaming. F/Z are to be accountable for their actions. By not reporting and doing other things to ensure the rink was/is safe, they are as responsible for trauma as Cipres.

 

[canbelto]

Can we please stop calling other members posts "victim blaming". Just saying....

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

 

[FunnyBut]

You are so totally right. As someone who have had to endure her loudness and entitled attitude in press rooms, I can't say I have Brennan in high personal regard. But she is extremely GOOD at her job. I don't care that she enjoys having big stories, I can even relate, as long as these big stories are true. She denounces what has been a real plague in sports for ages. She is doing a great job and a job that takes a lot of determination, guts, persistence and dedication. I could not care less she is not the funniest person to be around, I don't even care for her motivations. If they are personal for the wrong reason or whatever, so be it. Sexual harassment in sports, just like everywhere else, has to stop. Period. If she can help it to stop : great. That's what journalists are here for too. She is doing her job and she is doing it extremely well.

Thanks Cholla. You are so right, we must separate that the work is very important even if the person who did it is personally repugnant. I have always found Brennan to be smug and egotistical, as when she showed off her wealth to Dave Lease and proudly proclaimed ‘this is the house that Tonya Harding built’. That’s just one instance of many that form my impression of her, but yes her work has been a part of important societal attitude change.

 

[martyross]

i confess i really want to see what the coaches have to say, after the complete denial. i wonder if they'll "clear up this matter" by releasing other public statements in the next days (they say they look forward to do it after all), or if they'll provide an explanation by the time SafeSport interview them (which will happen in months if i understood it correctly). on twitter someone said that in order to give their side of the facts, they need a lawyer who can carefully check every word beforehand.
my guess is they'll make an other defensive statement. we'll have to wait for one week or so. in the meantime i hope this thread keeps being very active (it's viewed by hundreds of people every day) and hopefully other twitter posters who may have heard the "whispers" brings up new stuff in their posts. this shit must not die as time pass by.

 

[PRlady]

James/Cipres were my favorite pair and the performance of Sounds of Silence at Euros in 2017, with everything that had happened in the larger world just before that, still could bring tears to my eyes. And I don't know if Vanessa is another victim or just closed her eyes to her partner's behavior, since I very much doubt this incident was a one-off. And yes, French culture is more "tolerant" of bad behavior, that was obvious during the DSK scandal.

But at the end of the day I have to hope for punishment for Cipres and for the coaches if it, as it appears, is warranted. Skating isn't the only sport where young girls start early and are unsupervised by their parents for long periods while training, and a society that puts its most talented at risk every time they go to the rink/gym/track whatever is a sick society.

 

[MarieM]

It's not that it is tolerant, it's that we are far far far from having a global understanding of what is or not acceptable nowadays towards sexual harassement. I sure hope there are consequences in hopes it'll make things change.

 

[feraina]

Another level of awfulness: the girls parents were probably forking over a huge amount of money to Zimmerman and Fontana. Top coaches charge an exorbitant amount. Awful awful behavior.

There’s nothing in CB’s article indicating they girl is coached by Zimmerman/Fontana, is there? If they did coach her, I think it would’ve been mentioned. Many rinks have a dozen or more coaches. So while they’re mandatory reporters, the public info so far don’t warrant assuming more.

 

[nimi]

Zemgirl: I am trying to explain that it's a cultural problem in France that "pedophilie" still isn't high on the list of things to fix.

My French is pretty rudimentary but I did a quick search and immediately came across this article which definitely seems to support your assessment of the situation...

Pédophilie dans le sport: des défaillances à répétition, des centaines de victimes

Depuis 1970, pas moins de 77 affaires de violences sexuelles dans le sport ont été étouffées ou auraient pu être évitées. Révélations sur de lourds dysfonctionnements qui ont fait près de 300 victime…

www.mediapart.fr

 

[just tuned in]

If the girl knowingly asked for the pictures, why then would she want to report it? My speculation, forgive me, is that the reason she is in therapy is not because she received the pictures or was asked to muffle them. It is possible that she feels guilty for encouraging a crime. Of course this has Nothing to do with any of MC's previous alleged crimes.

 

[SpeedySucks]

If the girl knowingly asked for the pictures, why then would she want to report it? My speculation, forgive me, is that the reason she is in therapy is not because she received the pictures or was asked to muffle them. It is possible that she feels guilty for encouraging a crime. Of course this has Nothing to do with any of MC's previous alleged crimes.

Or, most likely, she’s in therapy due to the psychological damage caused by Zimmerman, Fontana, and Dispenza blaming and shaming her for receiving the pics.

 

[uandmfan]

If the girl knowingly asked for the pictures, why then would she want to report it? My speculation, forgive me, is that the reason she is in therapy is not because she received the pictures or was asked to muffle them. It is possible that she feels guilty for encouraging a crime. Of course this has Nothing to do with any of MC's previous alleged crimes.

At the risk of being attacked here - she is a CHILD. Children cannot encourage adults to commit a crime and be held responsible. If she feels guilty about 'encouraging' a crime it's because adults made her feel responsible for something bad that happened. You know, the whole - if you tell your parents I fondled you they will be angry with you - approach. It's how adults manipulate children and HURT them.

She's 13. The others involved are adults. The CHILD in this situation is not at fault.

 

[just tuned in]

Or, most likely, she’s in therapy due to the psychological damage caused by Zimmerman, Fontana, and Dispenza blaming and shaming her for receiving the pics.

How would Z or F even know? Under CB's scenario, the only one who would know would be Dispenza. If whe asked for the pictures and received them, then she would show Dispenza, not F/Z.

 

[just tuned in]

At the risk of being attacked here - she is a CHILD. Children cannot encourage adults to commit a crime and be held responsible. If she feels guilty about 'encouraging' a crime it's because adults made her feel responsible for something bad that happened. You know, the whole - if you tell your parents I fondled you they will be angry with you - approach. It's how adults manipulate children and HURT them.

She's 13. The others involved are adults. The CHILD in this situation is not at fault.

All I am saying is that it adds to the things she might need to work out with a therapist.

 

[oleada]

How would Z or F even know? Under CB's scenario, the only one who would know would be Dispenza.

Maybe the family told them; maybe Dispenza did, maybe they heard rink gossip. In the end, it does not matter. They knew, and they failed to report and instead threatened and harassed a child.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Or perhaps she needs to discuss having followed the suggestion of an adult to send the request for the pictures in the first place.

They knew, and they failed to report and instead threatened and harassed a child

Which takes away from a plausible deniability argument.

 

[pat c]

How would Z or F even know? Under CB's scenario, the only one who would know would be Dispenza. If whe asked for the pictures and received them, then she would show Dispenza, not F/Z.

Young teens have a mind set all of their own. I don't think we as older than 13 year olds , really have a good idea as to what she was thinking. Not that it matters. Cipres wasn't 13 nor was Dispenza.