Cipres accused of sexual misconduct

[barbk]

Yes, really. I was completely puzzled by @canbelto's comment.

I'm not puzzled. The skater in question is nowhere to be seen in the multitude of pictures she has posted. She has lots of other skater pics posted. Probably a smart move on her part.

The one of her kid sleeping in the car seat is particularly sweet.

 

[VGThuy]

I guess I view Fontana/Zimmerman as worse because as coaches they are entrusted by parents to ensure the safety of their pupils. They are also mandated reporters. If what Brennan is reporting is true, they instead threatened and harassed the 13 year old girl to the point where she left the sport and is in therapy.

It's why I think the Catholic priests are so despicable. Parents used to trust the priests with their kids' lives.

I see your point, but I can’t bring myself to say what they did is “worse” because I think we all have a duty of care not to commit sexual assault of any kind, and the fact that he sent a dick pic to a minor who was only 13 years old should not be seen as a “less than” act. I mean young children tend to trust any adult even when they are taught things like “stranger danger” especially one who is a skater at their rink. Which also illustrates the fact that most sexual assault victims are victimized by people they know and trust, so there’s always going to be an abuse of trust going on in these situations.

I forced my brother the lawyer to say if he were in F/Z's situation, he would call a lawyer (I can be very convincing with a knife in my hand), but he said the first person he would have called was Morgan Cipres.

He also asked if Cipres knew the age of the people he was sending the pictures to. Was there any chance Cipres thought he was sending the pictures to a 28 year old?

I said Cipres knew the pictures were going to minors, but now that I've reread the Brennan piece for the 5th or 6th time, I can no longer say that:

On Dec. 3, 2017, Cipres allegedly direct messaged two photos of his penis on Instagram to the girl, who skated at the same rink as Cipres in Wesley Chapel, Fla. USA TODAY Sports has reviewed those messages, which were sent from what appears to be Cipres’ verified account.

The girl and her parents said a fourth adult also was involved in the alleged incident. Vinny Dispenza, another coach at the AdventHealth Center Ice rink, allegedly told the girl and another underage girl, whose family could not be reached for comment, to message Cipres asking him to send the photos to the girls in exchange for the promise of a pizza from Dispenza.

We know that Cipres dmed two photographs of his penis to at least one girl because USA Today Sports reviewed those messages. But Christine Brennan doesn't say that USA Today Sports read the message asking Cipres to send the photos.

I don't know how Instagram works. Other people here do and will explain it to me. Does one use one's real name? Does one include one's birthdate?

If Instagram does not require those pieces of information then it is within the realm of possibility the girls didn't reveal who they were or what their ages were. Or even if they did give their names, Cipres, who is training for the Olympics, might not have known who the girls were by name.

Here's are two theoretical messages:

Hi Morgan. I made a bet with Vinny Dispenza that you'd send me and my friend pictures of your penis. If I win, I get a pizza. Love, your biggest fan, Girl A (age 13)

Hi Morgan. No, I'm your biggest fan. Send me the pictures too. Love- Girl B (I'm the one at the rink who wears a pink dress and I'm a minor too)

Let me make two things clear. First of all, I think anyone with the remotest level of celebrity who sends intimate pictures to strangers or near strangers is an idiot. By that standard, Morgan Cipres is an idiot.

The second thing is anyone, child or adult, who prompts minors to solicit intimate photographs is scum. By that standard, Vinny Dispenza is scum.

But by my standards, while Vinny Dispenza is scum and quite possibly an idiot, I don't have proof from Brennan's article that Morgan Cipres is both an idiot and scum.

Unless the victim was using a Finsta (fake account) or pretending to be someone else with fake pictures, then I find any of the above theoretical situations to be hard to believe. She also was not some stranger but a skater who shared the same coaches. Even if he didn’t really know her, he probably knew of her and what she actually looked like in person and most likely could ascertain her age even if he didn’t know her actual age. I know some will say 13 year old girls look older than they are but I know young kids that age and they all look younger than the age of consent. Heck, even high school students and college students look young as heck to me, so assuming he wasn’t looking at a profile or otherwise Instagram pic of her that wasn’t really her but a clearly adult-aged woman, this all suggests he’s sexually attracted to and actively pursuing girls who look that young.

I also think nothing has been offered to suggest this happened. Now if more information comes out to suggest this happened, then by all means let’s have at it. But right now, it seems to read as scraping at the bottom of the “possibility” barrel way past the point of plausibility to accept these theories as viable alternatives to the official story.

 

[Tavi]

I forced my brother the lawyer to say if he were in F/Z's situation, he would call a lawyer (I can be very convincing with a knife in my hand), but he said the first person he would have called was Morgan Cipres.

He also asked if Cipres knew the age of the people he was sending the pictures to. Was there any chance Cipres thought he was sending the pictures to a 28 year old?

I said Cipres knew the pictures were going to minors, but now that I've reread the Brennan piece for the 5th or 6th time, I can no longer say that:

On Dec. 3, 2017, Cipres allegedly direct messaged two photos of his penis on Instagram to the girl, who skated at the same rink as Cipres in Wesley Chapel, Fla. USA TODAY Sports has reviewed those messages, which were sent from what appears to be Cipres’ verified account.

The girl and her parents said a fourth adult also was involved in the alleged incident. Vinny Dispenza, another coach at the AdventHealth Center Ice rink, allegedly told the girl and another underage girl, whose family could not be reached for comment, to message Cipres asking him to send the photos to the girls in exchange for the promise of a pizza from Dispenza.

We know that Cipres dmed two photographs of his penis to at least one girl because USA Today Sports reviewed those messages. But Christine Brennan doesn't say that USA Today Sports read the message asking Cipres to send the photos.

I don't know how Instagram works. Other people here do and will explain it to me. Does one use one's real name? Does one include one's birthdate?

If Instagram does not require those pieces of information then it is within the realm of possibility the girls didn't reveal who they were or what their ages were. Or even if they did give their names, Cipres, who is training for the Olympics, might not have known who the girls were by name.

Here's are two theoretical messages:

Hi Morgan. I made a bet with Vinny Dispenza that you'd send me and my friend pictures of your penis. If I win, I get a pizza. Love, your biggest fan, Girl A (age 13)

Hi Morgan. No, I'm your biggest fan. Send me the pictures too. Love- Girl B (I'm the one at the rink who wears a pink dress and I'm a minor too)

Let me make two things clear. First of all, I think anyone with the remotest level of celebrity who sends intimate pictures to strangers or near strangers is an idiot. By that standard, Morgan Cipres is an idiot.

The second thing is anyone, child or adult, who prompts minors to solicit intimate photographs is scum. By that standard, Vinny Dispenza is scum.

But by my standards, while Vinny Dispenza is scum and quite possibly an idiot, I don't have proof from Brennan's article that Morgan Cipres is both an idiot and scum.

I’m not sure why you keep trying to solve the “mystery” of what’s happened here based on one very carefully worded article written by Christine Brennan that you keep trying to parse for meaning.

There is not enough evidence in that article for you conclude definitively what happened. SafeSport hasn’t completed its investigation yet. Nor has any law enforcement body that may be involved. The point of an investigation is to develop the facts of a case to the point where a fair judgment can be rendered. None of us here has enough information to render a fair judgment- and more to the point, none of has been charged with that task.

 

[RoseRed]

I'm obviously no expert on Florida law, but several Obscenity Crimes involving minors state that:

"A person’s ignorance of a minor’s age, a minor’s misrepresentation of his or her age, a bona fide belief of a minor’s age, or a minor’s consent may not be raised as a defense in a prosecution for a violation of this section."

I'm not sure that this applies because I don't know the correct section of their criminal code, but it's quite common as far as I know that not knowing someone is a minor is not a valid defence. So it's not necessarily even relevant whether he knew or not.

(I'm inclined to think that unless she had a fake profile with someone else's photos, he at least should have known or guessed that she was under age).

 

[canbelto]

Another level of awfulness: the girls parents were probably forking over a huge amount of money to Zimmerman and Fontana. Top coaches charge an exorbitant amount. Awful awful behavior.

 

[VGThuy]

I'm obviously no expert on Florida law, but several Obscenity Crimes involving minors state that:

"A person’s ignorance of a minor’s age, a minor’s misrepresentation of his or her age, a bona fide belief of a minor’s age, or a minor’s consent may not be raised as a defense in a prosecution for a violation of this section."

I'm not sure that this applies because I don't know the correct section of their criminal code, but it's quite common as far as I know that not knowing someone is a minor is not a valid defence. So it's not necessarily even relevant whether he knew or not.

(I'm inclined to think that unless she had a fake profile with someone else's photos, he at least should have known or guessed that she was under age).

Yep. These types of cases tend to have a “strict liability” standard meaning that there aren’t any defenses if you admit or the evidence shows you committed the act. Not knowing the age of the victim or being told the victim was of age but he/she/they actually were not is no defense.

 

[UGG]

I hope no one thinks that because I said dick pics are common within the adult dating community believe I think it’s ok for a grown man to send a child a dick pic.

 

[Japanfan]

If it was not a very poor taste joke then the only thing I can come up with was the person requesting the girls to ask for the pics wanted the pics and wanted to benefit in having them in some way...either dick adoration or blackmail or to make money on the sale of them. Who knows? It is an alternate theory. I have never liked Morgan Cipres since I saw a kiss n cry nastiness from him a few yrs ago but I am not willing to lynch him for being dumb and immature. I will wait and see.

Bold mine.

I had a moment of complete mental paralysis.

Dick adoration is a thing?

Blackmail? Those must be some pics! They must be distinctive as compared to all of the dick picks floating around on the internet - not that I've looked, but some they are available, if one cases to look.

 

[love_skate2011]

I dont think this will go further
when you already have Weinstein getting away with it and the accussers blinded by

fame and money makes the world go round after all

 

[mag]

I hope no one thinks that because I said dick pics are common within the adult dating community believe I think it’s ok for a grown man to send a child a dick pic.

I am only one, but I certainly did not get that impression.

 

[Prancer]

The headings in the french press state "sexual harassment", which is correct. In USA it could very well be headlined as "sexual assault"... and there is a difference.

Again with the slap on the butt thing.

Find a case about a slap on the butt in figure skating and maybe you'll have something. Otherwise, I ask always--what is your point?

I agree with you logic, you're right to point out those aspects. At the same time, "two wrongs - don't make it right". to finish my point (about general issues, not this case), a slap on the butt in a public place, and an attempted rape for example, given both are illegal, should not be dumped into one basket and labeled the same.

Why not? Assault covers a myriad of actions of varying degrees, which is why there ARE varying degrees.

And what about battery? You say that this slap on the butt would be correctly defined as sexual harrassment because it COULD BE defined as sexual assault in the US (you have, I am sure, dozens of relevant examples of this to show), but battery is also a potential issue here. Is that allowed or do we have that all wrong, too?

 

[missing]

I’m not sure why you keep trying to solve the “mystery” of what’s happened here based on one very carefully worded article written by Christine Brennan that you keep trying to parse for meaning.

There is not enough evidence in that article for you conclude definitively what happened. SafeSport hasn’t completed its investigation yet. Nor has any law enforcement body that may be involved. The point of an investigation is to develop the facts of a case to the point where a fair judgment can be rendered. None of us here has enough information to render a fair judgment- and more to the point, none of has been charged with that task.

Pardon me while I pull the knife out of my back.

What felt best for me was to say what it is I don't know (for example how Instagram works) and learn from the responses and to discuss what I do know (from the Brennan article) than to speculate on the behavior and actions of children, their parents/guardians, skaters, coaches, other skaters who the coaches coach, the French skating federation, Florida police, and SafeSport.

If one is interested only in the final report from SafeSport, it might make sense not to reading anyone's posts on this thread. Undoubtedly when the report is released, there will be a new thread on the subject, easy to find and parse on command.

 

[Tavi]

Pardon me while I pull the knife out of my back.

What felt best for me was to say what it is I don't know (for example how Instagram works) and learn from the responses and to discuss what I do know (from the Brennan article) than to speculate on the behavior and actions of children, their parents/guardians, skaters, coaches, other skaters who the coaches coach, the French skating federation, Florida police, and SafeSport.

If one is interested only in the final report from SafeSport, it might make sense not to reading anyone's posts on this thread. Undoubtedly when the report is released, there will be a new thread on the subject, easy to find and parse on command.

You know, I’m sorry if your feelings were hurt, but you are in fact simply speculating about the behavior and motivations of everyone involved. As a lover of mystery novels, I can understand the temptation. But as someone who analyzes and argues about facts for a living, it’s clear to me that there’s not enough information publicly available for any of us to understand or judge what has happened here.

 

[Excidra]

First of all my heart and support goes out to the victim. Too many times society turned a blind eye to these types of crimes. I am glad that we are at a point where we no longer tolerate this and believe the victim 100%


As a huge fan of Cipres and James, it hurts me to say that I will no longer be supporting them. Matter of fact once this allegation is proven to be true by the investigators, I hope the french will be disqualified from future ISU and IOC competitions for the mere fact that there will be young competitors around Cipres. They need to be protected from any pedophile.

 

[bcash]

I see your point, but I can’t bring myself to say what they did is “worse” because I think we all have a duty of care not to commit sexual assault of any kind, and the fact that he sent a dick pic to a minor who was only 13 years old should not be seen as a “less than” act. I mean young children tend to trust any adult even when they are taught things like “stranger danger” especially one who is a skater at their rink. Which also illustrates the fact that most sexual assault victims are victimized by people they know and trust, so there’s always going to be an abuse of trust going on in these situations.




Unless the victim was using a Finsta (fake account) or pretending to be someone else with fake pictures, then I find any of the above theoretical situations to be hard to believe. She also was not some stranger but a skater who shared the same coaches. Even if he didn’t really know her, he probably knew of her and what she actually looked like in person and most likely could ascertain her age even if he didn’t know her actual age. I know some will say 13 year old girls look older than they are but I know young kids that age and they all look younger than the age of consent. Heck, even high school students and college students look young as heck to me, so assuming he wasn’t looking at a profile or otherwise Instagram pic of her that wasn’t really her but a clearly adult-aged woman, this all suggests he’s sexually attracted to and actively pursuing girls who look that young.

I also think nothing has been offered to suggest this happened. Now if more information comes out to suggest this happened, then by all means let’s have at it. But right now, it seems to read as scraping at the bottom of the “possibility” barrel way past the point of plausibility to accept these theories as viable alternatives to the official story.

Have you used Instagram extensively? A lot of people don’t use it the way they use, say, Facebook. I for a long time didn’t put any picture of myself on my account, but only landscape and urban photography. I don’t use my pic in the profile nor do I indicate my age (hardly any instagram account I follow do the latter).

 

[bcash]

I forced my brother the lawyer to say if he were in F/Z's situation, he would call a lawyer (I can be very convincing with a knife in my hand), but he said the first person he would have called was Morgan Cipres.

He also asked if Cipres knew the age of the people he was sending the pictures to. Was there any chance Cipres thought he was sending the pictures to a 28 year old?

I said Cipres knew the pictures were going to minors, but now that I've reread the Brennan piece for the 5th or 6th time, I can no longer say that:

On Dec. 3, 2017, Cipres allegedly direct messaged two photos of his penis on Instagram to the girl, who skated at the same rink as Cipres in Wesley Chapel, Fla. USA TODAY Sports has reviewed those messages, which were sent from what appears to be Cipres’ verified account.

The girl and her parents said a fourth adult also was involved in the alleged incident. Vinny Dispenza, another coach at the AdventHealth Center Ice rink, allegedly told the girl and another underage girl, whose family could not be reached for comment, to message Cipres asking him to send the photos to the girls in exchange for the promise of a pizza from Dispenza.

We know that Cipres dmed two photographs of his penis to at least one girl because USA Today Sports reviewed those messages. But Christine Brennan doesn't say that USA Today Sports read the message asking Cipres to send the photos.

I don't know how Instagram works. Other people here do and will explain it to me. Does one use one's real name? Does one include one's birthdate?

If Instagram does not require those pieces of information then it is within the realm of possibility the girls didn't reveal who they were or what their ages were. Or even if they did give their names, Cipres, who is training for the Olympics, might not have known who the girls were by name.

Here's are two theoretical messages:

Hi Morgan. I made a bet with Vinny Dispenza that you'd send me and my friend pictures of your penis. If I win, I get a pizza. Love, your biggest fan, Girl A (age 13)

Hi Morgan. No, I'm your biggest fan. Send me the pictures too. Love- Girl B (I'm the one at the rink who wears a pink dress and I'm a minor too)

Let me make two things clear. First of all, I think anyone with the remotest level of celebrity who sends intimate pictures to strangers or near strangers is an idiot. By that standard, Morgan Cipres is an idiot.

The second thing is anyone, child or adult, who prompts minors to solicit intimate photographs is scum. By that standard, Vinny Dispenza is scum.

But by my standards, while Vinny Dispenza is scum and quite possibly an idiot, I don't have proof from Brennan's article that Morgan Cipres is both an idiot and scum.

I haven’t sought out the girls’ IG accounts but what you described is an entirely possible scenario.

 

[VGThuy]

Have you used Instagram extensively? A lot of people don’t use it the way they use, say, Facebook. I for a long time didn’t put any picture of myself on my account, but only landscape and urban photography. I don’t use my pic in the profile nor do I indicate my age (hardly any instagram account I follow do the latter).

Obviously I do use Instagram, and though there are some accounts that only use landscapes and such, there’s nothing here to suggest Morgan so happened to send a dick pic to a girl’s profile who so happened to train at the same rink and who shared the same coaches without knowing it was her. I mean he could have thought it was just a stranger and he liked sharing pics of his dick around without even knowing what the receiver looked like or if it was actually a girl/woman, but it’s kind of obvious the reason why this investigation is happening and why there was a shock regarding the behavior of those involved and why Silvia and John Zimmerman were all about how the girl dressed and presented herself maturely or In a sexual way or whatever was because Morgan knew exactly who he was sending it to.

I think you thinking any of missing’s theories is possible (I mean anything is possible but is it plausible?) without any details in the article even saying anything like that happened is hopeful wishing.

 

[Willowway]

Another level of awfulness: the girls parents were probably forking over a huge amount of money to Zimmerman and Fontana. Top coaches charge an exorbitant amount. Awful awful behavior.

This is one of the misunderstandings here - no where in the original article or anywhere else does it say that the victimized teenager was a student of Zimmerman and Fontana. From what I know from other sources, she is not. How she was related to Dispenza is a question. She was a skater at the same rink as all the alleged participants. It appears that John's great lapse of judgement was going to the victim's parents to ask for silence about his skater, Cipres, who was about to skate at the Olympics. BIG lapse of judgement on JZ's part. John has always appeared to be a very nice guy from the times I've met him but I don't know him. And even if I did know him better as a great guy, this still would be one whopper of an error in judgement. He had a responsibility, as a sanctioned coach, to report the offense to SafeSport as soon as he heard of it; and if that report affected his team at the Olympics then so it would have been. But he opted to go to the victim's parents instead of doing what was required. What a terrible mess. Of course one wonders what the role of the French Federation was in trying to keep this quiet as their team was about to compete on the biggest stage in skating.

 

[maatTheViking]

I use Instagram some; and yes profiles are a wide variety. Some post mostly pics of themselves and/or things they like, some have their age in the profile, some don’t. Some don’t have profile pictures; most do.

now almost all the younger people I follow on IG (nieces, Anna Scherbakova) use it personally (Scherbakova less obv) with pictures etc in their profile.

As for @missings scenario I can see 3 ways he wouldn’t have known

1. the profile is not clear, he doesn’t know the name, no personal pictures. This would mean Cipres sends dick pics to random people he doesn’t know?

2. He thought he sent it to someone else; an adult. I can only imagine this happens if he sexts often via IG and in that case why didn’t he excuse profoundly?

3. He was aware of who he was sending to, but didn’t realize she was a minor. Frankly I’ve never seen a 13 year look old enough to be 18, I really don’t think this makes any sense.

in all cases - if this is any sense was accidental / mistaken identity then why the need for coverup and intimidation?

I simply don’t think any of the above makes sense. It’s much more likely that he knew, and that he did it.

while he hasn’t been convicted yet, I’m really not inclined to give him the benfit of doubt.

I’m in full support of the victim and there is no point in this whole exercise. Cipres sent porn to a 13 year old. That’s a crime.

 

[MarieM]

Again with the slap on the butt thing.

Find a case about a slap on the butt in figure skating and maybe you'll have something. Otherwise, I ask always--what is your point?

The point being what I tried to make with my own previous post: it's a cultural huge difference between france and the USA.
Sexual arrassment over here it 40 years behind what happens in the USA. Ask french men, and they'll tell you "how prude you americans are". Ask french women, I bet more than 50% will say the same.

 

[VGThuy]

@Willowway, thank you for clarifying that they most likely did not share the same coaches but skated at the same rink and that John and Silvia’s role was to be aggressive about protecting their Star skater and stepping outside their bounds and also failing to report as mandatory reporters.

 

[cocotaffy]

The point is he just shouldn't have send d**k pictures, that is all. No need to look for scenario. This all thing is upsetting yet unfortunately not surprising as more and more cases of sexual misconducts/assaults are reported every day in all type of circles. Thanks to @okokok777 for the interesting read. Through a recent event in my close circle of friends, I've come to discover the prevalence of those type of photos. I knew about it but didn't know it was a thing among really young people as well like secondary school students and such. In that case, we also searched for mishaps linked to Instagram but in the end, it was just as bad as it appeared to be. The role of the parents here is essential to protect their kids but especially to educate them on consent from the earliest of age.

 

[Bigbird]

The point is he just shouldn't have send d**k pictures, that is all. No need to look for scenario. This all thing is upsetting yet unfortunately not surprising as more and more cases of sexual misconducts/assaults are reported every day in all type of circles. Thanks to @okokok777 for the interesting read. Through a recent event in my close circle of friends, I've come to discover the prevalence of those type of photos circulating. I knew about it but didn't know it was a thing among really young people as well like secondary school students and such. In that case, we also searched for mishaps linked to Instagram but in the end, it was just as bad as it appeared to be. The role of the parents here is essential to protect their kids but especially to educate them on consent from the earliest of age.

Yes, not very smart is Cipres unfortunately. I clearly understand Vanessa's frustration with him in the past. Because clearly he thinks primarily with his member and not that lump three feet above his ass.

 

[bcash]

Obviously I do use Instagram, and though there are some accounts that only use landscapes and such, there’s nothing here to suggest Morgan so happened to send a dick pic to a girl’s profile who so happened to train at the same rink and who shared the same coaches without knowing it was her. I mean he could have thought it was just a stranger and he liked sharing pics of his dick around without even knowing what the receiver looked like or if it was actually a girl/woman, but it’s kind of obvious the reason why this investigation is happening and why there was a shock regarding the behavior of those involved and why Silvia and John Zimmerman were all about how the girl dressed and presented herself maturely or In a sexual way or whatever was because Morgan knew exactly who he was sending it to.

I think you thinking any of missing’s theories is possible (I mean anything is possible but is it plausible?) without any details in the article even saying anything like that happened is hopeful wishing.

The article (by a reporter with a history of sensationalism and sanctimoniousness) certainly didn’t say that Morgan Ciprès knew exactly whom he was sending the pictures to.

Instagram users not only do not often use their own photos in their profiles, but adopt all sorts of alias on their page if they are not public figures.

I do not wishfully hope for anything, perhaps except for Twitter social justice warriors not to swarm Vanessa James’s accounts demanding apology, denouncement or any gestural statement of solidarity. But I found your blanket statement on the usage of Instagram simply misleading (not to say untrue) for those who do not use it, and that your labeling sending a nude photo to someone “sexual “assault”” very inflammatory.

It would be clarifying to know about the IG interactions that took place. Why and how would a 13 year-old ask for someone’s nude pic through direct messaging, just because someone nonsensically offered pizza in return for that act? Why didn’t they let their parents know about that strange prodding if they felt uncomfortable right then and there?

 

[MarieM]

Yes, not very smart is Cipres unfortunately. I clearly understand Vanessa's frustration with him in the past. Because clearly he thinks primarily with his member and not that lump three feet above his ass.

A typical french man.
I usually tend to say they think with that member until they maturate (if ever), and then, it all goes down again to said member when turning 40 or 50.
A very huge cultural difference. Or at least, I'm more aware of it because I do work mainly with men.

 

[Japanfan]

Sexual arrassment over here it 40 years behind what happens in the USA. Ask french men, and they'll tell you "how prude you americans are". Ask french women, I bet more than 50% will say the same.

Are you saying that being opposed to sexual harassment or battery, and/or whatever legal category C's actions fall under in France, make a person a prude in France? I could understand that prude could be seen to = not being sexually adventurous (with consent) in certain ways, or not being uptight about sex. I'm reminded of a former French leader who died, and several of his mistresses attended a funeral - I think that happened, but am really not sure about it.

Sorry, but being opposed an adult making a sexually-oriented gesture to a minor has nothing to with being a prude. This is a legal offense in most or much of the Western world, SFAIK.

I'm sure that France wants to protect its children and teens, and has laws in place for that. But since I know nothing about the pertinent law in France, perhaps someone who does know could clarify? Sorry, if it's been done already, I am having trouble keeping up with this thread.

I usually tend to say they think with that member until they maturate (if ever), and then, it all goes down again to said member when turning 40 or 50.

They say about men everywhere. Although personally I don't think it is true of all men - but is true of too many! And in my experience (which includes dating/relationships in a number of countries), it is not true of all men. It's just a negative gender generalization and I find it really offensive, because boys/men can be taught to be respectful of women (or other boys/men).

In saying the above, I still recognize that male entitlement is a serious problem with regard to sexuality and other things (e.g. the group Incel - I think that is the correct name - is really problematic in asserting men's right to sex). But if we attribute male behavior only to 'thinking with his member' we sort of deny men an opportunity to grow as persons or be the best persons they can be.

 

[VGThuy]

The article (by a reporter with a history of sensationalism and sanctimoniousness) certainly didn’t say that Morgan Ciprès knew exactly whom he was sending the pictures to.

Instagram users not only do not often use their own photos in their profile, but adopt all sorts of alias if they are not public figures.

I do not wishfully hope for anything, but I found your blanket statement on the usage of Instagram very misleading for those who do not use it, and that your labeling sending a nude photo to someone sexual “assault” very inflammatory.

I did not make any blanket statements at all. All I said that unless the victim was using a Finsta or posing as an adult-aged woman (which covers the whole adopting "alias" thing you added just now) and used her photos to lure Morgan, then I personally found any of missing's theoretical scenarios of how Morgan ended up sending a picture of his penis to a child to be hard to believe.

I did not make any sort of statement about how people use Instagram in general. I don't know how anybody could read that into my statement unless they are just reaching for a fight just like reaching for a positive explanation as to why anyone would send a dick pic to a child. I think you just took it as that to get the opportunity to offer up another possible scenario as to how Morgan could have "innocently" sent a picture of his penis to a child by indirectly hinting that Morgan could have sent that pic to a profile that only had pictures of landscapes and art and other posts that did not have her picture or name on it, though none of that was mentioned in the article at all.

Regarding why I believe he knew who he was sending those pics to, I stand by what I said. I repeat...there’s nothing written to suggest Morgan so happened to send a dick pic to a girl’s profile who so happened to train at the same rink without knowing it was her. There is nothing to suggest that the victim lured Morgan to send her pictures under false pretenses. There's a lot to suggest he knew who he was sending it to considering all the actions that occurred after that, including the way John Zimmerman and Silvia Fontana spoke to her, according to the article.

The girl and her parents allege Zimmerman and Fontana intimidated the girl for several weeks, telling her that she was at fault for receiving the pictures because she was a “pretty girl and men have their needs,” that no one would believe her and that she would be shamed on social media, particularly in France, where Cipres is popular.

....

"She has been told that telling will place a target on her back with French fans, that she is the type of girl who does this (collect pics), that she has been asking for it by her clothing choices."

Why would the victim and her parents allege that John and Silvia told them the above quote about her being a pretty girl and men have their needs unless they all knew Morgan knew who he sent the picture to? Why not something else along the lines about her "tricking" him? Why would they go ahead and contact USA Today with this story when any evidence of her "tricking" him will come out will only backfire on the even if what Cipres allegedly did would still be considered a sex crime under Florida law. Again, I'm going by the facts that are being laid out in the article.

Even without all of that, I am just taking the plain meaning of how the article words the allegations:

"Cipres allegedly direct messaged two photos of his penis on Instagram to the girl, who skated at the same rink as Cipres in Wesley Chapel, Fla. USA TODAY Sports has reviewed those messages, which were sent from what appears to be Cipres’ verified account."

I know how that reads to most people. He sent two pictures to via Instagram her account. If there was more to the story like her pretending to be someone else or her not identifying herself, that surely would have been included as it is relevant to his motivation. Outside of that, it just reads that he saw her Instagram profile knowing it was hers and sent her the two pics.

Until more details come out to support your suppositions (and boy has this thread given him and his legal team some "good" ideas), the fact of the matter is that the article doesn't say anything about the scenarios you think are possibilities either so by continuing to give it any weight as if there is an equal amount of facts laid out to support it as there is the fact that he knew to whom he was sending those pictures. Otherwise, why else are you playing his defense attorney by offering defenses he himself did not even offer (I'll give you a "yet") without getting paid?

Regarding the word "assault", you're right, I shouldn't use the word "assault" if I want to use it in a legal setting. In that case, I should have just used the word "sex crime" to describe the allegation of Morgan sending a child a picture of his penis. However, these types of actions in lay terms have been described as assault by people who faced unwanted pictures and maybe have been harassed by those sending those pictures. It sure can feel that way to a lot of people.

 

[MarieM]

Are you saying that being opposed to sexual harassment or battery, and/or whatever legal category C's actions fall under in France, make a person a prude in France? I could understand that prude could be seen to = not being sexually adventurous (with consent) in certain ways, or not being uptight about sex. I'm reminded of a former French leader who died, and several of his mistresses attended a funeral - I think that happened, but am really not sure about it.

Sorry, but being opposed an adult making a sexually-oriented gesture to a minor has nothing to with being a prude. This is a legal offense in most or much of the Western world, SFAIK.

I'm sure that France wants to protect its children and teens, and has laws in place for that. But since I know nothing about the pertinent law in France, perhaps someone who does know could clarify? Sorry, if it's been done already, I am having trouble keeping up with this thread.

I'm saying that in France, such acts are not recognised as sexual harassement. The justice system IS beginning to look closely into it, but the "population" isn't there (I'd love to add yet, but my hopes have gone down on that subject far too many times). Protecting kids is going up and down. I told you, we ARE 40 years behind a lot of countries in that aspect.

Prude meaning being shocked by certain things because you understand that most people here see themselves are way less prudes. I don't agree with that mind you, but it is what it is.

Mitterand paid for his second family with the government funds. But IMO you are refering to dear Valéry Giscard d'Estaing whose surname to this day is still "3 minutes, all included". But he's still alive.
Or maybe Hollande who was caught in a scooted going to see mistress 2 while living with mistress 1.
They are really typical french males. And it gives you an idea of where french society is at.
Which is pretty much how I think where said skater is in his mind about all this kind of stuffs.

 

[Japanfan]

I'm saying that in France, such acts are not recognised as sexual harassement.

Google found this article, which explains and supports your point. I didn't read it through carefully, but it appears to focus on the workplace.

https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_TGS_028_0089--french-and-u-s-legal-approaches-to.htm

But would C's alleged actions against a minor not also be a legal violation in France?

 

[MarieM]

That's a question I have a hard time to answer when looking at actual condemnations on that subject.