Chantastic....the return of Patrick

fscric

Active Member
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383
I know if Hanyu stayed on his feet, Patrick and everybody else will have a hard time competing with him. That being said, I don't think Hanyu had a concussion when he competed at Skate Canada.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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13,520
I am curious how Patrick will hold up against Jin. Clearly, Jin deserves 7.0s for PCS (although some judges have already given him 8.50 for skating skills for lots of two-footed skating on his flats when not in a step squence :rofl:) while Patrick deserves 9.0+ for PCS, but Jin's technical score has no ceiling but Patrick can only get up a max of 10.00 for PCS.

(Thank you illiterate Sochi judges for pushing the PCS to its ceiling so there is little contrast between skaters.)
 
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Meoima

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3,845
Patrick, have some confidence!

You are not too old, fat, and genetically so different from an 18 year old Jin Boyang from China that you can't do a higher level quad. Jeez, you were talking 4F before Sochi!
I don't think Patrick is fat at all and 24 is not old. Look at Carolina! Someone should send him photos of many great skaters in the past, not all of them were so thin like a rake like Boyang. Patrick looks fit to me.
Yagudin was quite a muscular man and he jumped 4lz in practice, even tried 4T4T. What a pity we have no video aside from Tat's words.
 

handomi

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524
Patrick should easily win with Jin for now. It will be mighty close in SP I guess but free will make the diffrence
 

puglover

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1,830
I just want to watch Patrick skate! On the shuttle back to the hotel at Skate Canada some know-it-all coach/technical specialist from the U.S. was going on and on about the fact Patrick tripled the second quad toe. It took all of my self control - and I am getting old and have less of it - to not try to point out to her that a quad is less then a second in the air. I get that he scores less points (and he should) but how could you miss the absolutely beautiful skating, the relationship of his blades on that ice, the magic he created? There were no stumbles or anything that distracted from your concentration and I felt the arena collectively held their breath. I felt privileged to be there. I hope he doesn't focus on the Japanese or Chinese and what they can do - just do what he does best!
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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48,466
I am looking forward to seeing Patrick skate at worlds. I think he can medal, and if other top skaters make mistakes, he can even win with clean skates. However, I hope he enjoys competing. I am sure his performances will be worth watching, regardless of where he finishes.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
48,466
I don't think Patrick is fat at all and 24 is not old. Look at Carolina! Someone should send him photos of many great skaters in the past, not all of them were so thin like a rake like Boyang. Patrick looks fit to me.
Yagudin was quite a muscular man and he jumped 4lz in practice, even tried 4T4T. What a pity we have no video aside from Tat's words.
I have not heard of Yagudin trying a 4Lz in practices. I know Plushenko did, and hurt himself in the process.

Patrick is very fit, and he is younger than Brian Orser who competed in the 1988 at age 26. That was not considered old either. Boitano was 24 when he won his OGM. Paul Wylie was 27 when he won his Olympic silver in 1992.

I have not read the interview; I am just responding to the comments posted here. I hope he is not having doubts about himself. There will always be some skaters who are younger, some who can land even more difficult jumps, but as long as he is true to himself, he will do fine.
 

kwanoverrated

Banned Member
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1,961
So does Patrick even have a chance after that monster score at NHK for Hanyu?
Hanyu isnt the most consistent skater. It is silly to assume he would skate like NHK all the time. So of course he has a chance, it depends on the day and how both skate. Given that Hanyu's base value is higher by a huge margin, he was never going to be beaten skating cleanly.
 

Corianna

Active Member
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441
I suspect Patrick may be re-evaluating his decision not to include the quad Sal this year, though I doubt we'll see it at the GPF. He might go for the second 3A .
Given that he made 191 at SC with the triple instead of the quad and another double instead of a triple somewhere, he is certainly capable of going over 200 in the Free.
 

handomi

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524
I suspect Patrick may be re-evaluating his decision not to include the quad Sal this year, though I doubt we'll see it at the GPF. He might go for the second 3A .
Given that he made 191 at SC with the triple instead of the quad and another double instead of a triple somewhere, he is certainly capable of going over 200 in the Free.
If I remember he can only turn with this layout 3T to quad, but he can't do another triple instead of double in combo otherwise he will zayak. He can turn that double to triple, but then has to turn another solo triple to 2A.
He can up BV slightly by turning one of triples to 2nd 3A.
Other way is adding 4S or turning one of 4T's to 4S
 
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alilou

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He's planning the 2 quads, (that 3T is the space for the 2nd quad) and a second 3A - not necessarily for GPF, but maybe by Canadians and worlds.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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Now that there is real competition out there, I am looking forward to seeing Patrick go through another phase of growth where he pushes his own boundaries in the face of adversity, which will be a real challenge given how naturally ahead he has been for most of his career.
 

kwanoverrated

Banned Member
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1,961
It will be interesting to see what not only Patrick, but Javier and Denis come up with in the wake of Hanyu's NHK onslaught. With his scoring potential shown there the others have to up the difficulty to have a chance to beat him even with a couple mistakes.

Patrick has looked happy and comfortable and healthy in his outings this year though and that is the most important thing. Beating Hanyu to win Skate Canada is a confidence builder too.
 

liv

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1,977
GPF is too soon for anyone to really respond to Yuzu's free, and he himself may face a letdown there as well. World's is where the real competition will be, when each competitor has had a few more months to prepare, tweak, add elements etc., and I don't see any reason to dismiss the other top competitors, with Patrick, Javi and Denis being the usual suspects. Anything can happen, on any day, and there is no guarantee of anything when triumph or defeat rests on the edge of a blade. That's why you compete instead of winning on paper.
 

kwanoverrated

Banned Member
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Yeah I dont expect anyone to change anything for the GPF, that is for sure. However Worlds will be over 3 months after that, and I do expect some of the other contenders to try to add tech. content in those 3.5 months now.
 

screech

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6,180
Yuzuru had the skate of a lifetime. While I hope he continues to skate lights out, I don't expect skates like that all the time.

Also, his PCS were kind of ridiculously high, and IMO he shouldn't have received all those high +GOE on his spins - they lose speed really easily. Skating at home, the audience creates a bit of an 'energy' and the judges start to get sucked in by it and feel it. There won't be that same atmosphere everywhere else.

Chan's SP isn't working out for him that well right now - his PCS are lower than usual in it, and he hasn't had a good skate yet. That could affect final outcomes - I think he needs to work some more things out with that. IMO his LP is so much better than Hanyu's, which IMO focuses on a lot of arm movements and has a lot of 2-foot skating compared to Chan's.

I don't expect Chan to be world champion this year. I'd be happy with him on the podium, but I think that top 5 is highly realistic. His 3A is much better now than it was before, and if he adds a 2nd quad and a 2nd 3A, that will make things pretty interesting...
 

Meoima

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Also, his PCS were kind of ridiculously high, and IMO he shouldn't have received all those high +GOE on his spins - they lose speed really easily. Skating at home, the audience creates a bit of an 'energy' and the judges start to get sucked in by it and feel it. There won't be that same atmosphere everywhere else.
So did Patrick at SC on his home ice. Let's be frankly, Yuzuru's spin at NHK overall is better than Patrick's spin at SC, either about speed or difficult positions. And out of top men in the field, who has better spin than Yuzuru? Jason Brown and Joshua Fariss maybe? But they were not there at NHK. It's Patrick and Javi's spins always get too high GOE in my book.

Yuzuru's PCS was too high, but his program is the most difficult ever and he executed it well. There is still big room for Yuzuru to improve I am sure, but Yuzuru's NHK with harder layout should win Patrick's SC if they manage to pull the same kind of performances in one competition, regardless of the scores they would get.

IMO his LP is so much better than Hanyu's, which IMO focuses on a lot of arm movements and has a lot of 2-foot skating compared to Chan's.
Yuzuru's LP has more transitions and difficult entries before jumps so I don't think Patrick's current LP is more difficult than Yuzuru at all. Please read this thread in which I have introduced the analysis of Patrick and Yuzuru's LP this season: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/hanyus-seimei-vs-patricks-chopin-analysis.96884/
This analysis were done by Italian Eurosport's commentators and the translation is actually just a summary. In Italian they talked in details about each turns, steps, positions etc, what a pity there is no time for the whole to be translated.

I don't expect Chan to be world champion this year. I'd be happy with him on the podium, but I think that top 5 is highly realistic. His 3A is much better now than it was before, and if he adds a 2nd quad and a 2nd 3A, that will make things pretty interesting...
I do think Patrick will be on podium anywhere he goes (TEB without LP does not count in my book). However the color of the medal will depend on how he and other top men actually do that day. Men field is always unpredictable. Will Patrick do well this season? I think so because he is among top 3 skaters out there at the moment. But how well, I don't know yet. Maybe some can do better.
 
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Meoima

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What's Chan's max score for both SP and LP assuming he skates cleanly?
My friend Lys Alton have calculated which kind of scores Patrick could get in the free if:
A) he skated perfectly his current layout (with two 4T), getting level 4 on all spins&steps and getting max GOE available for all elements
B) he skated perfectly an upgraded version of this layout (with two 4T and 2 3A), getting level 4 on all spins&steps and getting max GOE available for all elements.
Here is the result: https://goo.gl/Lov4af

However, for a skater to get +3 GOE in everything is...not possible to me.
 
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Meoima

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How is it summing up to be 117? Is that for his FS? He got 190 already at SC.
A fan calculated the maxim scoring potential of Patrick, Javier, and Yuzuru's program with all Level 4/+3 GOE/100 PCS:

Patrick CHAN
SP TES57.60(BV42.90+GOE14.70)+PCS50.00=TSS 107.60
FS TES111.52(BV83.32+GOE28.20)+PCS100.00=TSS 211.52
Total 319.12

Javier FERNANDEZ
SP TES58.15(BV43.45+GOE14.70)+PCS50.00=TSS 108.15
FS TES119.74(BV90.64+GOE29.10)+PCS100.00=TSS 219.74
Total 327.89

Yuzuru HANYU
SP TES63.65(BV48.05+GOE15.60)+PCS50.00=TSS 113.65
FS TES125.79(BV95.79+GOE30.00)+PCS100.00=TSS 225.79
Total 339.44
 

VarBar

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luckiest1

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PJ Kwong interview with Patrick after the short program yesterday. Happy to see him smiling. It was a silly mistake obviously, but watching it live on Eurovision, I thought he was skating ok (other than tripling the quad) and for a minute I couldn't figure out why the technical score tracker wasn't going up! Then I clued in. Hopefully he'll come back strong in the free. I would like him to head to Canadians with a positive attitude and some confidence. The short program this year has been his nemesis.
 

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