Chantastic....the return of Patrick

[bardtoob]

I know I get frustrated but the past, but I still love Patrick's skating.

 

[mag]

My says that Patrick has recently spent a lot of time traveling around and training at different clubs in BC. Not looking at coaches, just training a bit and taking photos with skaters. There are only two or three clubs with the quality of sessions Patrick would need to actually train (as opposed to just kinda skating) and my said those were not the clubs he spent the majority of his time at.

 

[The Accordion]

Okay all. I am extremely worried about Patrick. I was at Skate Canada and at all his practices and the free program was not a surprise to me based on what he was doing in those practices. He looked as though he would rather be anywhere else. He mostly just skated around and sometimes did double axels, sometimes triple lutzes but mostly just skated around looking lost (to me). Every once in a while in practice he would set up for the toe, but he seemed to be entirely afraid of it and did some triples. He and Marina talked very little and Marina looked as though she would also like to be somewhere else as well. I was feeling so sick about it. At first I thought it was because of his late flight and lost luggage but it continued into the rest of the practices. I hope Skate Canada or someone can somehow help him find a way to make peace with where he is and just skate beautifully as only he can.
ETA - He did sometimes also work on his transitions and footwork and other non-jump elements.

 

[MR-FAN]

Lightening the mood in here a bit, someone already made a gif of the moment he got bopped in the head by that plushy in the kiss and cry.
https://twitter.com/magicaleggrolls/status/924443834225975296

Soccer snark?

 

[luckiest1]

Thank you The Accordian, I'm glad for your first hand impressions. Something is seriously wrong, obviously, whether it be his coaching situation or something personal or something physical. So hard to know. I read this Bev Smith article this morning that contains more of the quotes about NHK and his feelings about going (or not): Patrick Chan hits a low point.

Here's his gala skate: Oh What A Night (December 1963). Now that's fantastic to see! He looks "on" and hits the jumps, and seems to be having a lot of fun. I am starting to think it's a coaching problem (again), especially if he's been wandering around Vancouver for the past month, training here and there sporadically. I hope he was able to have a good chat to the higher ups at Skate Canada and maybe they can help him figure out a solution.

 

[The Accordion]

[QUOTE I am starting to think it's a coaching problem (again), especially if he's been wandering around Vancouver for the past month, training here and there sporadically. [/QUOTE]

I am not trying to make excuses - but my new pet theory is that despite trying, he has never been able to find the right coach since Coulson died. It is as though they were a perfect fit and he's spent the rest of his career trying to find a replacement but hasn't been able to. Or maybe he just got older and more picky, or maybe he was just so good for so long he has run out of steam, and no coaching will fix that. I am not also not trying to be negative. I honestly just feel so sad for him.

 

[chapis]

I think he is naturally very talented but it is obvious that he has some interests outside figure skating (not a bad thing) but I wonder how would be doing if he focused 100% to figure skating.

 

[MR-FAN]

I for one want him to have poor performances and mistakes throughout the season till ge gets to Pyeongchang. Let him sort out all the underlying issues now, that are usually masked with decent performances.

 

[puglover]

We don't have enough information to do anything much except speculate. Although we heard positive comments from him about his two silver medals in Sochi, I would assume he knew the door was open after Hanyu and he was not able to walk through it. I bet he has played those 4 plus minutes over in his mind and would like to have a do-over. The landscape in men's skating has changed and Korea will probably not be that do-over. He may be a more sensitive man than his public persona indicates. Detroit seemed initially like a good training atmosphere with other skaters with whom he had a kinship, but he did say in some interview that things had changed there and key friends had left. He seemed happy in the gala but still seems to struggle with competition. Perhaps he should not go to NHK - he is out of the GP final anyway. Just do Canadians and the Olympics. He has never had a lot of perfect competitive skates in him so maybe he could have that skate at the Olympics. The last time I saw him live was at Skate Canada in Lethbridge and although I think he doubled the second axel, he was so sublime no one near me even hardly breathed during his performance.

 

[cheremary]

It's not out of the realm of possibility that he could qualify for GPF if he does well at NHK. He placed fourth at Skate Canada. Last year Nathan qualified with 2nd and 4th place finishes. Patrick himself qualified with 1st and 5th two seasons ago. Apparently a Japanese journalist asked him about withdrawing from NHK and he said he wouldn't, particularly since he hasn't been there since his first year on the GP series in 2006.

Soccer snark?

Haha I didn't intend for it to be, but that thing that hit him does look ball-shaped (a smiley face maybe?).

 

[Fiero425]

It's not out of the realm of possibility that he could qualify for GPF if he does well at NHK. He placed fourth at Skate Canada. Last year Nathan qualified with 2nd and 4th place finishes. Patrick himself qualified with 1st and 5th two seasons ago. Apparently a Japanese journalist asked him about withdrawing from NHK and he said he wouldn't, particularly since he hasn't been there since his first year on the GP series in '06.
.

IDK why, but instantly thought of Plushenko back in 2004! He had pulled back on his schedule, only skated and won COR, but had no intentions of going to the GP Final in Beijing! Someone must have pulled out, and as the 7th man alternate, Evgeni went in there and won the Gold hands down! If he lost anything, it was all on him after Yagudin retired!

 

[kittysk8ts]

Haha I didn't intend for it to be, but that thing that hit him does look ball-shaped (a smiley face maybe?).

Yes, it was stuffed emoji. hahahaha. and he laughed which was perfect and brought some much needed levity at the time.

 

[Judy]

I honestly don’t feel his heart is in it anymore. That isn’t something you can force. I am not sure I blame him either.

Is he still with his girlfriend?

 

[puglover]

I thought that relationship with his former coach's daughter ended a few years ago. Mind you, I have to remember I have been away from skating news for so long, he could have had numerous girlfriends since.

 

[Japanfan]

In terms of the Olympics, I do hope he is able to end his competitive career proud of what he has accomplished. A medal this time would be a dream come true I’m sure.

Patrick has indicated that he doesn't care about medals, and he is at a long shot for the 2018 Olympic podium due to the lack of quads. At present it looks Chen, Hanyu, Fernadez, and Uno are the primary podium contenders.

I and others mentioned previously, it would be best for Patrick to just skate his best, and for himself. If he does that and finishes fifth (his comfort zone placementat the moment it seems), it still might be the best performance of the night.

 

[bardtoob]

Patrick has indicated that he doesn't care about medals, and he is at a long shot for the 2018 Olympic podium due to the lack of quads. At present it looks Chen, Hanyu, Fernadez, and Uno are the primary podium contenders.

I and others mentioned previously, it would be best for Patrick to just skate his best, and for himself. If he does that and finishes fifth (his comfort zone placementat the moment it seems), it still might be the best performance of the night.

I love Patrick's skating ... But it is hard to be in a "competition" if you don't care about winning.

 

[VGThuy]

I think Patrick skating his best and being the best version of himself will actually be the best thing he can do for himself and would actually make him more of a medal threat than he if he kept obsessing about what the other men are doing that he himself can't do and if that makes him adopt a defeatist attitude. Worrying so much seems to make him almost self-sabotage himself a bit IF the rumor about him not fully training is true except if there's an injury or something else he hasn't disclosed that prevented him from even skating at the level he was able to before he worried about an extra quad. If that's the case, then there wasn't much he could do about training then. I think Marina and Patrick need to just set a personal goal for him that he feels confident enough in achieving and stop worrying so much about placements. If he can do that and stop doubling or skating scared of the competition, his best qualities will shine through and you just never know what can happen.

 

[ChelleC]

The thing is if Chen, Hanyu, Fernandez, and Uno fallter, Patrick could very well end up on the podium if he skated his best. Is it a long shot? Of course it is, but it's not entirely impossible.

 

[clairecloutier]

The thing is if Chen, Hanyu, Fernandez, and Uno fallter, Patrick could very well end up on the podium if he skated his best. Is it a long shot? Of course it is, but it's not entirely impossible.

This is so true. It's all still very possible. But I feel like maybe Patrick doesn't believe it anymore? ....

 

[nguyhm]

For some reasons Patrick seemed "defeated" to me especially in the long program. Not sure what it was but I don't remember seeing him like that and it worries me. Hopefully it was only a bad week - missed flights and delayed luggages.... but it looked like the distraction got the best of him. Patrick skates his best when he's "in the zone" and there might have been too much going on to not allow him to detach himself from the surrounding factors. I wish him the best and that he could clear his mind before stepping on the ice to be the Patrick who mesmerizes the audience.

 

[nguyhm]

This is so true. It's all still very possible. But I feel like maybe Patrick doesn't believe it anymore? ....

And that might put more pressure on him.

 

[Japanfan]

I love Patrick's skating ... But it is hard to be in a "competition" if you don't care about winning.

Yes, and I think Patrick does find competition hard. That is, I didn't think he is a strong competitor. He tends to skate his best for Gold when he no real competition for the top spot - usually skates really well at Canadians, for example.

IIRC he didn't have heavy competition for the Gold when he won his three World titles? Also, again IIRC, at least one of those wins was questionable in the eyes of many, perhaps even two of them?

In Sochi, the gold medal was entirely within his reach and Uzu pretty much gave it to him, but he made just one mistake too many, and lost the gold.

I think Patrick skating his best and being the best version of himself will actually be the best thing he can do for himself and would actually make him more of a medal threat than he if he kept obsessing about what the other men are doing that he himself can't do and if that makes him adopt a defeatist attitude.

If the run-up to Sochi he appeared to have a defensive, if not defeatist attitude. The pressure on him as the favorite for Gold was clearly getting to him.

Worrying so much seems to make him almost self-sabotage himself a bit IF the rumor about him not fully training is true except if there's an injury or something else he hasn't disclosed that prevented him from even skating at the level he was able to before he worried about an extra quad.

Where did you read that he's not fully training?

 

[jlai]

Yes, and I think Patrick does find competition hard. That is, I didn't think he is a strong competitor. He tends to skate his best for Gold when he no real competition for the top spot - usually skates really well at Canadians, for example.

IIRC he didn't have heavy competition for the Gold when he won his three World titles? Also, again IIRC, at least one of those wins was questionable in the eyes of many, perhaps even two of them?

In Sochi, the gold medal was entirely within his reach and Uzu pretty much gave it to him, but he made just one mistake too many, and lost the gold.




If the run-up to Sochi he appeared to have a defensive, if not defeatist attitude. The pressure on him as the favorite for Gold was clearly getting to him.



Where did you read that he's not fully training?

It is not possible to be a three time world champion without being a strong competitor, even with his out of the world skating skills.
Of course whether he likes to compete is another story.
It is easy to point out a skater's failure at a certain event In hindsight as being weak. In that case Kwan has to be a weak competitor too since she has no Olympic gold

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Elite athletes have such a brief window to make their mark.

The men's technical requirements especially, have sky-rocketed since 2014.

I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to practise every day, then having to make good on that training in seven short minutes.

 

[Japanfan]

It is not possible to be a three time world champion without being a strong competitor, even with his out of the world skating skills.

It's possible if the competition isn't very strong.

And 'strong' is relative. Skaters don't make it far without having some strength as a competitor.

But if a discussion were to be had about the strongest competitors over the years, Patrick would not be on the list.

Of course whether he likes to compete is another story.

He doesn't. That's come through in interviews. And I really wonder whether he wants to be competing this season at all. He is under considerable pressure to do so from the Federation I'm sure, but what's the motivation? He's a long shot for the Olympic podium, gold is out of his reach unless things go seriously wrong for all the guys above him, and his best days as a competitor appear to be behind him. He did emphasize wanting to show his skating skills in an interview during Skate Canada, but losing so many triples in his FP really made him lose energy and focus on the rest of the program.

It is easy to point out a skater's failure at a certain event In hindsight as being weak. In that case Kwan has to be a weak competitor too since she has no Olympic gold

I'm talking about performance, not results. Patrick competed poorly at Skate Canada. He could have competed well and would have still placed behind Uno due to his lower tech content.

Michelle Kwan is one the best competitor's FS has known! She does have five world titles and nine (I think?) national titles.

She always or almost always rose to the occasion and SFAIK, loved to compete. Her failure to win Olympic Gold - and I hate to use the world failure here - was really just how the chips fell on those two occasions. She arguably lost two Olympics to skaters who were not of her caliber. And there has been plenty of debate on this board about Michelle versus Tara in '98. That one was really too close to call.

 

[jlai]

It's possible if the competition isn't very strong.

And 'strong' is relative. Skaters don't make it far without having some strength as a competitor.

But if a discussion were to be had about the strongest competitors over the years, Patrick would not be on the list.



He doesn't. That's come through in interviews. And I really wonder whether he wants to be competing this season at all. He is under considerable pressure to do so from the Federation I'm sure, but what's the motivation? He's a long shot for the Olympic podium, gold is out of his reach unless things go seriously wrong for all the guys above him, and his best days as a competitor appear to be behind him. He did emphasize wanting to show his skating skills in an interview during Skate Canada, but losing so many triples in his FP really made him lose energy and focus on the rest of the program.

I'm talking about performance, not results. Patrick competed poorly at Skate Canada. He could have competed well and would have still placed behind Uno due to his lower tech content.

Michelle Kwan is one the best competitor's FS has known! She does have five world titles and nine (I think?) national titles.

She always or almost always rose to the occasion and SFAIK, loved to compete. Her failure to win Olympic Gold - and I hate to use the world failure here - was really just how the chips fell on those two occasions. She arguably lost two Olympics to skaters who were not of her caliber. And there has been plenty of debate on this board about Michelle versus Tara in '98. That one was really too close to call.

There was no talk about him being a weak competitor when he was winning and dominating. despite the fact that Hanyu likes to compete he only has two world titles not three.
I remember Chan pulling off great skates despite mediocre practices. So if that does not qualify as a good enough competitor for you and if only winning the Olympic gold qualifies as such that is up to you. The fact is Kwan had the same demons Chan as re the Olympics.

And if Chan counts as a weak competitor because he wins against weaker skates then so is every other world champ.

I think we are just looking at Chan at hindsight and labeling him by looking at his cracks. I can do that to just about every skater

 

[jlai]

By the way this is not supposed to be a Chan complaints thread? We are supposed to only say positive supportive things

 

[AxelAnnie]

By the way this is not supposed to be a Chan complaints thread? We are supposed to only say positive supportive things

I hope you are kidding. I think "cheering" means wishing well.....not turning a blind eye to what is actually happening on the ice. The latter is UBERING.

 

[jlai]

Cheering means wishing well and being supportive and positive even when a skater is struggling

 

[bardtoob]

Patrick will always be known as a great skater!