Athlete Mental Health & Eating Disorders - a news & discussion thread

[Trillian]

Kaitlin Hawayek posted this vid on IG.

I would really, really encourage everyone to watch this. Other skaters have obviously spoken up about this issue in the past, but I found Kaitlin’s story and her message here really powerful.

 

[Garden Kitty]

Kudos to Kaitlin for being so brave and talking about a subject that is clearly emotional and important for her. I hope her willingness to discuss this can have a positive impact for younger skaters. I had tears in my eyes listening to her talk - such a powerful message.

 

[victorskid]

And Amber Glenn posted this on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AmberGlenn_/status/1585013634589413376

Pretty sure it was the same spectator that made some comments to me about my body while asking for a photo. It threw me off because I believe it was meant as “ compliments” instead it was toxic , triggering , and made me super uncomfortable.

Point is stuff like this contributes to why eating disorders are so common in this sport.

 

[clairecloutier]

What's sad is that once you hear a comment like that, you can't un-hear it. You can rationally know and tell yourself that it's mean or incorrect or inappropriate or whatever. But someone still said that to you, and it's not so easy to forget. I feel bad for Kaitlin. And after she and Jean-Luc had such a great event at Skate America, too.

 

[hoptoad]

Sometimes people are just awful, but kudos to Kaitlin for calling it out and helping destignify such remarks. They are never actually helpful and say more about the person making them than anything else.

I was so happy to see Kaitlin and Jean-Luc live for the first time!!

 

[airgelaal]

It amazes me that people can deliberately not notice when someone is being physically or mentally abused. People "don't see" bruises, but they see "overweight".
Unfortunately, many people still have the wrong priorities.

 

[MacMadame]

I have no idea who the fan was, where they came from, how long they've followed the sport, or what age group they fall into, but we unfortunately see roundabout comments pertaining to the topic even on FSU.

What gets me is the entitlement that some fans have as if the skaters should be grateful to hear their (largely uneducated) opinion.

I agree that the fan should be banned. They can stay home and make their snotty comments to the tv.

 

[dramagrrl]

I cannot believe that "fan" had the utter gall to go up to an athlete, request a photo with her, and then give her this supposed "advice" while doing so. That is just beyond gross.

 

[Lanie]

That 'fan' is ****ing horrible and should be ashamed. I hope it is found out who it was, and that they are banned from further events if possible.

I'm really proud of Kaitlin for being so open about this and knowing what a problem it is in the sport, how toxic commentary TO THEIR FACE! is beyond, and wanting to use it as an experience to help younger skaters.

 

[taz'smum]

She did so well to speak out.
The pressure on female figure skaters to conform to a perceived "ideal" weight is just obscene.
Of those I have had dealings with, it is difficult to think of one who hasn't had some form of an eating disorder.

There seems to be an attitude amongst a lot of fans that some of the skaters don't care about being overweight.
That is just crazy, I've yet to meet a female, skater or otherwise who doesn't care about their weight at some level!

 

[rfisher]

it was flat out rude and boorish behavior to say that to anyone.

 

[Stefanie]

I cannot believe that "fan" had the utter gall to go up to an athlete, request a photo with her, and then give her this supposed "advice" while doing so. That is just beyond gross.

I thought the same thing when she said that. And she still managed to take the photo with this jerk.

 

[marbri]

Just going to throw this out there. Not to start a debate or argument but to let it sit with those it needs to sit with and ponder it.

There were a number of posts during SA about how unflattering Kaitlyn's dress was in the RD. And I know right this moment I just set some people in defense mode BUT don't respond. Just let it sit with you and think about it. Especially if you are really outraged about this incident and really listened to what Kaitlyn said in her video.

Because it's one thing to snark on costumes but another when certain comments are made about costumes on skaters like Kaitlyn Hawayek just as they were about Madison Hubbell....

 

[clairecloutier]

^^ I’m definitely doing a little self-reflection WRT this.

 

[Frau Muller]

…

There were a number of posts during SA about how unflattering Kaitlyn's dress was in the RD. ….

Costumes can be improved. Nothing wrong if one has a useful non-snarky comment, especially early in the season. In K/J-L’s RD, I was thinking about color combinations…I’d love to see him wear colored ruffled sleeves. Or maybe the idea is to keep them separate?

 

[PRlady]

^^ I’m definitely doing a little self-reflection WRT this.

Me too. And I know that I was a little weight-obsessed when I was younger: I was never really overweight but lost the same 5-10 vanity pounds over and over.

The Navkas and Taniths seem to have set an impossible standard for an ice dancer’s body; IIRC even Tessa was criticized for not being thin enough. It’s hard but necessary to be conscious of biases about looks with skaters in general.

 

[marbri]

Costumes can be improved. Nothing wrong if one has a useful non-snarky comment, especially early in the season. In K/J-L’s RD, I was thinking about color combinations…I’d love to see him wear colored ruffled sleeves. Or maybe the idea is to keep them separate?

If you only commented on the colour choice then I clearly was not addressing you

I see now the topic of my post seems to have been touched upon yesterday in the RD thread. Although I suppose it belongs here as well.

 

[SpiffySpiders]

Figure skating fandom is toxic. There, I said it. So much of the talk centers on costumes and hair and body shapes and who is or isn't considered physically attractive enough for the sport. I'm not at all surprised someone felt comfortable saying what they did, considering how fans tend to talk. Kaitlin, and Amber, don't need this 'advice'. They're doing just fine with their skating.

There's room for all body types; a tall guy doesn't need to only skate pairs, curvy girls should be welcome and slim ones shouldn't be automatically presumed to have EDs, etc. Costumes shouldn't have the importance they do - not everyone has designers creating for them. It's not about what athletes look like, it's whether can they do the required elements. Or, that's how it should be in a sport.

On a more positive note, it was refreshing when Kaori took the ice at Slake America looking like a young woman and not an extra slim teenager. There she was, the reigning world champion of a sport, not a beauty queen or a model or a little girl.

 

[rfisher]

Figure skating fandom is toxic. There, I said it. So much of the talk centers on costumes and hair and body shapes and who is or isn't considered physically attractive enough for the sport. I'm not at all surprised someone felt comfortable saying what they did, considering how fans tend to talk. Kaitlin, and Amber, don't need this 'advice'. They're doing just fine with their skating.

There's room for all body types; a tall guy doesn't need to only skate pairs, curvy girls should be welcome and slim ones shouldn't be automatically presumed to have EDs, etc. Costumes shouldn't have the importance they do - not everyone has designers creating for them. It's not about what athletes look like, it's whether can they do the required elements. Or, that's how it should be in a sport.

On a more positive note, it was refreshing when Kaori took the ice at Slake America looking like a young woman and not an extra slim teenager. There she was, the reigning world champion of a sport, not a beauty queen or a model or a little girl.

You just contradicted yourself. How was it refreshing how Kaori looked if looks don't matter? Did you say the same thing when Scherbakova won with a very different body type? I agree that it shouldn't matter, but so many have praised Sakamoto based on her looks so apparently it does matter depending on the fans aesthetics. Personally, I'd be fine if all female single and pairs skaters wore black body suits as they really show off their lines. I also have no issue with men wearing all black for the same reason. Then the emphasis is on how well they execute the elements. Dancers, I have no opinion one way or the other since I'm not a big dance fan. Plus, black body suits would save a lot of $$$$$ for skaters.

 

[Spikefan]

I need to remind myself not to comment on looks at all, I commented on a male skater’s hair in the PBP thread and I have no idea if this skater has some medical condition that makes it that way. I would never say that to his face so probably shouldn’t say it anywhere.

 

[PRlady]

You just contradicted yourself. How was it refreshing how Kaori looked if looks don't matter? Did you say the same thing when Scherbakova won with a very different body type? I agree that it shouldn't matter, but so many have praised Sakamoto based on her looks so apparently it does matter depending on the fans aesthetics. Personally, I'd be fine if all female single and pairs skaters wore black body suits as they really show off their lines. I also have no issue with men wearing all black for the same reason. Then the emphasis is on how well they execute the elements. Dancers, I have no opinion one way or the other since I'm not a big dance fan. Plus, black body suits would save a lot of $$$$$ for skaters.

Since the problem is EDs and emphasis on thinness, Kaori’s athletic body does break the stereotype and is thus worth noting. Meanwhile there have been countless interviews by current and former Eteri skaters about the insane regimen for staying thin, including worrying about a 200 gram weight gain. Scher herself may be naturally thin and healthy but she has trained in a terrible environment her entire life, so yes concern is not misplaced.

 

[BittyBug]

Since the problem is EDs and emphasis on thinness, Kaori’s athletic body does break the stereotype and is thus worth noting.

There are many, many people with eating disorders who are not stick thin.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

 

[BlueRidge]

Since the problem is EDs and emphasis on thinness, Kaori’s athletic body does break the stereotype and is thus worth noting. Meanwhile there have been countless interviews by current and former Eteri skaters about the insane regimen for staying thin, including worrying about a 200 gram weight gain. Scher herself may be naturally thin and healthy but she has trained in a terrible environment her entire life, so yes concern is not misplaced.

But the reported emphasis in the Tutberidze camp is actually not about appearance. It is about maintaining a body type capable of quads. The sport itself and what people consider to be "progress" in the sport pressures skaters to have a certain body type quite separately from the society's pressure for an ideal body appearance.

 

[Trillian]

Figure skating fandom is toxic. There, I said it. So much of the talk centers on costumes and hair and body shapes and who is or isn't considered physically attractive enough for the sport. I'm not at all surprised someone felt comfortable saying what they did, considering how fans tend to talk. Kaitlin, and Amber, don't need this 'advice'. They're doing just fine with their skating.

I don’t disagree with you here at all, and that’s one reason it’s generally a good thing for elite skaters to be very careful with how they engage with fan communities online. And with that said, the fans still need to do better. Even if skaters completely avoid all online fan discourse (which, obviously, they don’t), there are a lot of young people - both skaters and otherwise - who participate in the fan communities, and this is not just a skating issue. I was never an elite skater, but I have been in and around
the online fan community since I was about 14 years old. Some of the toxic cultural aspects of skating impact more than just the skaters.

So with all that said - I did see a mention elsewhere that the gala practice was closed to the public. If that is true, whoever was involved in this situation might be more well-connected within the sport than the average fan. This is a fan issue, but not just a fan issue - I can easily imagine whoever said it was affiliated with SCOB, for example. I’m from New England; I’ve known plenty of older ladies who would have been capable of making that comment.

I need to remind myself not to comment on looks at all, I commented on a male skater’s hair in the PBP thread and I have no idea if this skater has some medical condition that makes it that way. I would never say that to his face so probably shouldn’t say it anywhere.

I have thin hair because of genetics and whatever else, I’m self-conscious about it, and you wouldn’t believe how often well-meaning strangers do comment on it to my face. Generally involves some combination of asking me whether I’ve been tested for whatever medical condition they associate with thin hair, and recommending whatever shampoo their best friend is selling from the latest MLM fad. Used to happen on the regular when I had a customer-facing job, so I had to just nod politely until they were done.

Anyway, I think that’s part of why I appreciated the framing of Kaitlin’s message. IMO it resonates beyond just comments about weight, and beyond skating or even sports in general. We should all try not to make assumptions about a person - their health, their choices, their lifestyle, whatever - based on our perceptions of their physical appearance. And to whatever extent our brains are going to do those things anyway, based on societal conditioning, maybe the best we can do is reflect on those thoughts instead of sharing them with other people.

 

[rfisher]

But the reported emphasis in the Tutberidze camp is actually not about appearance. It is about maintaining a body type capable of quads. The sport itself and what people consider to be "progress" in the sport pressures skaters to have a certain body type quite separately from the society's pressure for an ideal body appearance.

And, good or bad, that's a part of most sports. Certain body types lend themselves to certain sports. My cousin was into body building competition for a number of years. There is a certain physical requirement for this. On one hand she looked very fit, but was it healthy? I didn't think so, but she did. She tired of it after a few years because it was extremely difficult to maintain the physical appearance necessary to compete. Distance runners have hardly any body fat. They are all muscle. Football linemen are big and running backs are smaller and fast. And, people will walk up to total strangers and comment on their appearance. I've seen people comment on a child's appearance more than once. In front of the child.

 

[Wyliefan]

Maybe now some of you can understand why I used to get so angry at the jokes about Soucisse "skating with her son." This season the narrative has shifted to "her packaging is so much better, she looks fantastic now!" Good for her, I'm glad she improved her packaging, but was she not a human being worthy of consideration and respect before that? What do you think it would have done to her if she'd heard or read some of those comments?

 

[BittyBug]

I can easily imagine whoever said it was affiliated with SCOB

We should all try not to make assumptions about a person

Indeed.

 

[Firedancer]

I don’t disagree with you here at all, and that’s one reason it’s generally a good thing for elite skaters to be very careful with how they engage with fan communities online. And with that said, the fans still need to do better. Even if skaters completely avoid all online fan discourse (which, obviously, they don’t), there are a lot of young people - both skaters and otherwise - who participate in the fan communities, and this is not just a skating issue. I was never an elite skater, but I have been in and around
the online fan community since I was about 14 years old. Some of the toxic cultural aspects of skating impact more than just the skaters.

So with all that said - I did see a mention elsewhere that the gala practice was closed to the public. If that is true, whoever was involved in this situation might be more well-connected within the sport than the average fan. This is a fan issue, but not just a fan issue - I can easily imagine whoever said it was affiliated with SCOB, for example. I’m from New England; I’ve known plenty of older ladies who would have been capable of making that comment.



I have thin hair because of genetics and whatever else, I’m self-conscious about it, and you wouldn’t believe how often well-meaning strangers do comment on it to my face. Generally involves some combination of asking me whether I’ve been tested for whatever medical condition they associate with thin hair, and recommending whatever shampoo their best friend is selling from the latest MLM fad. Used to happen on the regular when I had a customer-facing job, so I had to just nod politely until they were done.

Anyway, I think that’s part of why I appreciated the framing of Kaitlin’s message. IMO it resonates beyond just comments about weight, and beyond skating or even sports in general. We should all try not to make assumptions about a person - their health, their choices, their lifestyle, whatever - based on our perceptions of their physical appearance. And to whatever extent our brains are going to do those things anyway, based on societal conditioning, maybe the best we can do is reflect on those thoughts instead of sharing them with other people.

Only the gala practice for men and pairs was closed to the public. The practice for the women and dance did not take place until after the competition ended so there were fans there.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

Jesus ****ing christ. I am so sorry this happened to her. I am extremely grateful that she spoke up.

A couple of quick things:

1. You can dislike the color of a dress or a particular aesthetic. Some things just don't resonate. That's fashion. But if your comments fall somewhere along the lines of "I don't like how their [body part] looks in the costume," or "They need to make [Skater] look less 'old' with their hair/makeup/etc" then you are starting to veer into some pretty lousy territory. Learn how to distinguish between these.

2. Forums such as these and social media create a lot of parasocial relationships with skaters, which I think engenders a lot of this bad behavior. Just because you see them share on social or whatever doesn't mean you actually know anything about skaters. They are—no matter how much they are discussed and debated—absolute and total strangers. That should inform your actions.

And yes, hi, I am a former skater who struggled with an ED on/off for most of my life. I was 11 and a tiny twig with most of my doubles when my coaches starting telling me I should lose weight. I am somewhat certain that my career-ending injury (a triple leg fracture) has much to do with the fact that I wasn't strong enough to safely land jumps because I was being told that thinness was the only thing that mattered.

Here's a thing it's taken me a very long time to learn: My weight has nothing to do with my ability to skate. And my skating is worthy, regardless of my size. What matters is that I am happy.

 

[tony]

Almost every single fan on this board is guilty of making claims about skaters-- whether it's in their appearance, their current 'condition', their outfits, their supposed connection to someone in the sport that is making them score higher than they should, how a poster must be skater in question when they are defending skaters, being automatically guilty of claims against them, etc. And anyone who has ever been in a PBP thread is probably guilty of making observations about things they have (likely) never been able to do, myself included there. Everyone knows I'm meticulous about the technical side of the sport and the rules being applied as they are written, but I've never done more than doubles on the ice.

There are still plenty of people in this world that think their opinion is fact and worthy of being told straight-up to a stranger. We had a heated debate a few years ago that involved people walking down the street, without being provoked, and making comments about feminine gay guys or about people who are not ethnically white in America. Some of the older members here argued that said person on the receiving end could just keep walking and ignore the comments, but it seems the younger generations are putting up less and less with this shit and calling it out accordingly.