Athlete Mental Health & Eating Disorders - a news & discussion thread

[coppertop1]

There's a "Put up and shut up" mentality that is all too common in sports among "fans". It's like your fortunate to make it to the top level, just go and compete at don't speak up or complain, just do your job. It's toxic and total BS. Younger athletes are done with taking the abuse and toxicity and good for them. Athletes are humans above all else.

And to those who need to hear it; Women skaters are athletes. They have muscles and yes some fat. They're extremely fit and athletic. They don't need to look a certain way.

 

[Trillian]

Indeed.

I’m not making an assumption, just pointing out that those assuming this person is rooted primarily in the fan community may or may not be correct. Anyone who has spent any time in the skating world at all knows there are people at all levels of the sport, affiliated with clubs everywhere, who are just as capable of making those comments as people who are strictly fans.

Only the gala practice for men and pairs was closed to the public. The practice for the women and dance did not take place until after the competition ended so there were fans there.

Makes sense. So it could have been anyone.

 

[On My Own]

I hope H/B become World Champions this season!

 

[MacMadame]

There seems to be an attitude amongst a lot of fans that some of the skaters don't care about being overweight.

But 99.9% of these skaters are not overweight. That's part of the problem and why they are developing eating disorders -- they are being held to ridiculous standards, not based on reality that can't be achieved normally.

You just contradicted yourself. How was it refreshing how Kaori looked if looks don't matter?

And as Amber said in her post, even things that are supposed to be compliments can be triggering.

it seems the younger generations are putting up less and less with this shit and calling it out accordingly.

And good for them.

And to those who need to hear it; Women skaters are athletes. They have muscles and yes some fat. They're extremely fit and athletic. They don't need to look a certain way.

They better have some fat. Without some, you die. The minimum fat percentage for a woman is 10-12%, not 0% like some people seem to think (based on their actions)

 

[overedge]

There's a "Put up and shut up" mentality that is all too common in sports among "fans". It's like your fortunate to make it to the top level, just go and compete at don't speak up or complain, just do your job. It's toxic and total BS. Younger athletes are done with taking the abuse and toxicity and good for them. Athletes are humans above all else.

It comes from the federations and the media too. The fluff pieces on TV or the social media posts where we "get to know [skater] as a person". The skaters being encouraged to be active on social media as well as training and competing. IMHO that direction can lead to some fans thinking they have more of a personal relationship to the skater than they actually do, or should.

It's entirely possible that the person who said those awful things also offers unsolicited "advice" to people they meet in other contexts. But it's also possible that they have been enabled by the fan culture in skating.

Something else that plays into this situation is that women are expected to be passive and pleasant in interactions, regardless of how the other person is acting. IMHO the gender stereotypes in skating reinforce this, including the expectations that skaters need to be nice to all the fans. And that can make it very difficult for women to feel they have the right to say "no" or to call out inappropriate behaviour.

 

[PRlady]

I used to want to media-train skaters to do better interviews.

Now I want them to be trained by Miss Manners instead. “How could you think that was an appropriate remark?” is something every skater should learn to say.

 

[On My Own]

Now I want them to be trained by Miss Manners instead. “How could you think that was an appropriate remark?” is something every skater should learn to say.

Well, a punch in the throat will also do.

 

[carriecmu0503]

Since the problem is EDs and emphasis on thinness, Kaori’s athletic body does break the stereotype and is thus worth noting. Meanwhile there have been countless interviews by current and former Eteri skaters about the insane regimen for staying thin, including worrying about a 200 gram weight gain. Scher herself may be naturally thin and healthy but she has trained in a terrible environment her entire life, so yes concern is not misplaced.

No. We should not be discussing skaters’ bodies. At all. Ever. It’s none of our business.

 

[coppertop1]

I used to want to media-train skaters to do better interviews.

Now I want them to be trained by Miss Manners instead. “How could you think that was an appropriate remark?” is something every skater should learn to say.

Why should skaters be polite when someone makes a rude remark?

Well, a punch in the throat will also do.

Or telling them to mind their own business

 

[Orm Irian]

Why should skaters be polite when someone makes a rude remark?

It's called "returning the awkward to sender" and it's goal is to shame the offender into silence. It may sound polite but it's more like a verbal self-defence move. I'd support any sportsperson who used it!

 

[coppertop1]

It's called "returning the awkward to sender" and it's goal is to shame the offender into silence. It may sound polite but it's more like a verbal self-defence move. I'd support any sportsperson who used it!

Ok, I take your point.

 

[manhn]

Back in the 90s, there was a subset of actresses who were "celebrated" for looking "normal", etc. Those actresses later admitted that those "compliments" were interpreted, "Well, I guess people don't think I'm as beautiful as so-and-so" or "I guess people think I'm chubby!".

 

[overedge]

Since @PRlady mentioned Miss Manners, IIRC Miss Manners says the most annoying thing to someone if they are rude to you is to be unfailingly polite to them. Because they don't get the "rise" out of you that they're trying to get.

However, when someone is rude in a way that could actually endanger someone's mental or physical health, like the comments made to Kaitlin and Amber, I would disagree with Miss Manners and say they should be told why their comments are so damaging.

 

[Vagabond]

The problem with that, @overedge , is that the other person may not understand or care

 

[overedge]

The problem with that, @overedge , is that the other person may not understand or care

I'm thinking specifically of fans telling skaters about how their bodies look (the skaters' bodies). If they don't understand, then telling them why their comments are dangerous may help them understand. If they don't care, that's the point at which I'd call for security.

 

[airgelaal]

You just contradicted yourself. How was it refreshing how Kaori looked if looks don't matter? Did you say the same thing when Scherbakova won with a very different body type?

I remember how Gleikhengauz said that Anya eats one shrimp for dinner and that's enough for her. It was during the European Olympic Festival, she was 14 years old. Different body type, of course.

 

[rfisher]

I remember how Gleikhengauz said that Anya eats one shrimp for dinner and that's enough for her. It was during the European Olympic Festival, she was 14 years old. Different body type, of course.

Have you seen pictures of her mother and sister? They all look alike--same body type-- and I'm pretty sure Danny G has no control over their diet. Nor Anna's really since she lives with her parents.

 

[overedge]

Nobody has to explicitly control anybody's diet. All that skaters have to do is look around and see the body types of the skaters that are getting the best opportunities and/or the most attention. And then they try to achieve that body type themselves, however they think they can do it.

 

[airgelaal]

Have you seen pictures of her mother and sister? They all look alike--same body type-- and I'm pretty sure Danny G has no control over their diet. Nor Anna's really since she lives with her parents.

I saw a photo of her older sister and she definitely doesn't have the same body type.
And at that competition she was with him and he could control what she eats

In any case, it's not even about how much she actually eats. The man openly states that the 14-years old champion only eats one shrimp for dinner and that's okay.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Have you seen pictures of her mother and sister? They all look alike--same body type-- and I'm pretty sure Danny G has no control over their diet. Nor Anna's really since she lives with her parents.

Holy crap not this again. Eteri's girls were weighed daily and shamed in the media if they gained any weight. This is all documented. What do you get out of lying over and over again when this is pointed out to you repeatedly with links to interviews, footnotes, etc.

edited to add: Oh wait I remember, you are the one who has using laughing emojis in the past when eating disorders were discussed. Get help.

 

[skatingguy]

Maybe now some of you can understand why I used to get so angry at the jokes about Soucisse "skating with her son." This season the narrative has shifted to "her packaging is so much better, she looks fantastic now!" Good for her, I'm glad she improved her packaging, but was she not a human being worthy of consideration and respect before that? What do you think it would have done to her if she'd heard or read some of those comments?

Packaging doesn't have anything to do with the value of a human being, and commenting on the positives, or negatives of that packaging in the context of the sport of figure skating doesn't have anything to do with the individual skater themselves. Packaging is a part of the the sport. Does the costume/make up/hair, etc. add to, or detract from the performance? It is the equivalent of talking about the costumes/make-up/etc in a film or tv series. Those things don't define the performance of the actors but if they don't fit it becomes a distraction.

Figure skating, and particularly ice dance, have no objective way of determining a winner, so we look at every aspect of the performance both from a technical, and an artistic point of view to compare, and rank the skaters. Even the technical side of the sport is completely aesthetically driven, because there is no way to objectively determine whether an edge was deep enough, or long enough, or whether a turn was clean enough to be given points.

All of the athletes competing at the level of skating that we comment on regularly on this board are all good. They are among the top of their chosen discipline in the world, and the point of the sport, in addition to entertainment, is to find the best. Critiquing the sport doesn't have to be done in a mean way, but saying that 'I liked someone's packaging.', or a 'I don't like someone's packaging', and then explaining what was good/bad about it is about skating, and not a statement about a person's worth.

As an aside, those people who have commented on the toxicity of the skating fandom need to be aware of the kind of things that happen in the major sports around the world. I guarantee you that the fandoms of the major sports are much more toxic than anything that is ever said on this site, or any other figure skating site. We may be a little out there, and spend too much time in front of our screens, but we are tame compared to the average sports fan.

 

[Wyliefan]

And if all that was said in that case was "I don't like her packaging," I would agree with you that it was harmless. But if you were around for those PBPs and saw what was actually said, then you know as well as I do that it was not.

 

[skatingguy]

And if all that was said in that case was "I don't like her packaging," I would agree with you that it was harmless. But if you were around for those PBPs and saw what was actually said, then you know as well as I do that it was not.

Which is why I said that the sport doesn't have to be done in mean way.

 

[overedge]

Toxic fandom in other sports is not a reason for toxic fandom in any sport. A lot of sports' fan cultures need fixing.

 

[Trillian]

Critiquing the sport doesn't have to be done in a mean way, but saying that 'I liked someone's packaging.', or a 'I don't like someone's packaging', and then explaining what was good/bad about it is about skating, and not a statement about a person's worth.

In a perfect world, sure, but we all know that’s not how those conversations always go. There are plenty of comments people claim are about packaging that are actually thinly-veiled (or not so thinly-veiled) criticisms of skaters’ bodies and physical appearances. Those are the ones being called out here.

As an aside, those people who have commented on the toxicity of the skating fandom need to be aware of the kind of things that happen in the major sports around the world. I guarantee you that the fandoms of the major sports are much more toxic than anything that is ever said on this site, or any other figure skating site. We may be a little out there, and spend too much time in front of our screens, but we are tame compared to the average sports fan.

So? The toxic pockets of skating fandom aren’t absolved just because someone else is being even more of an a-hole somewhere else on the internet. We can still try to do better.

 

[Bouffantrex]

Miss Manners is still alive? Regardless, there must be more relevant sources to reference than that cultural relic.

 

[Wyliefan]

Oh goody, let's drag ageism into it!

 

[skatingguy]

In a perfect world, sure, but we all know that’s not how those conversations always go. There are plenty of comments people claim are about packaging that are actually thinly-veiled (or not so thinly-veiled) criticisms of skaters’ bodies and physical appearances. Those are the ones being called out here.

The original comment that I was to responding to was a broad swipe at any criticism, and we often see that type of blanket statement made about criticism in the sport, ie. all critics are hate. I think that a discussion of where the line is between critiquing the skating, and critiquing the person is important.

So? The toxic pockets of skating fandom aren’t absolved just because someone else is being even more of an a-hole somewhere else on the internet. We can still try to do better.

Yes, but context is important.

 

[On My Own]

Or telling them to mind their own business

Physical threats are always better. No one will like being punched in the throat.

 

[Wyliefan]

The original comment that I was to responding to was a broad swipe at any criticism

No, it wasn't.