Another PAIRS ROLLER SKATING masterpiece

aftershocks

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First of all thanks for your post :) If you refer to the instagram video I posted, that was a sbs triple flip. No pair in roller skating has ever landed clean sbs triple jumps other than these two, let alone a 3flip! And yes their unison is stunning... even more so if you consider they are not training in pair full time, living in different cities and having to train for their own single career as well. They are just a natural match.

I agree with what you're saying here... One of their aim was to push the boundaries in pair roller skating adding elements noone has ever performed before like sbs triples... to perform such elements on rollers requires MUCH more power and strenght than doing those on the ice... What they do have which makes them outstanding is the effortless speed in their performances which is very rare to see in this sport. Their late coach, who died last march in a car accident, was very much into ice figure skating and took lots of inspiration to create their programs, they used to travel to international fs competitions like gpfinals and worlds. So figure skating has definitely an influence on them. But I also like to think that figure skating got smth from roller skating as well....difficult entrances and dismounts has always been typical in roller pairs, the reverse lift has been a "compulsory" lift for ages while only in recent years figure skaters added that lift (considered among the most difficult) to their programs. I remember how British Eurosport commentators where :eek: at Marika Zanforlin & Federico Degli Esposti's 'no hands' reverse lift at their European debut back in 2008... and for them it was just a 'basic' lift!

I've been knowing Matteo since he was a kid and followed him throughout his career in roller and figure skating... so I can tell I'm one of his biggest fan :D. I've always thought he had the best back and posture ever in roller skating and she was good too but to me she has never been at his level. Matteo's talent is immense, if you think he managed to reach a very high level in figure skating switching sport in his 20s... exceptional! All this said I believe that for the relatively short time they have been skating together (less than 5 yrs), not even full time, Rebecca and Luca are a better match than Sara & Matteo who have been paired as very little kids like 6yrs old so basically they have skated together a lifetime. To me R&L are a natural wonderful match. They have proved to be able to skate incredibly difficult and intricate programs to different types of music and adapt to different styles despite being very young (she's only 19). I guess it's a matter of taste but in the roller world they are considered probably one of the best pair ever not just for the technical side: seeing all 10s for the second mark from all judges at Worlds, I don't think it has ever happen in the history of the sport!

Matteo and Sara have been competing in singles as well (it's pretty common in roller skating to do more than one discipline) but neither of them has ever reached world level. Luca and Rebecca are Senior Men and Junior ladies multi-World Champions so their talent is immense.

:lol: I would love that too!
Thanks I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I thought it might be flip jumps in the video you posted rather than lutz jumps but I wasn't sure, and I couldn't detect for certain the number of revolutions. Wow, seriously amazing since roller skates don't provide as much speed as figure skates to launch high enough in the air to make the revolutions. They are serious athletes. Is Rebecca the same Rebecca in the video of the younger skaters? I don't know much about competitive roller skating, but I have roller skated as a youngster so I have some idea of the difficulty of maneuvering on bulkier rollers, altough the roller skates they use today must be more streamlined and perhaps less heavy.

I particularly appreciate learning about the fact that some of the lifts and lift entries used in roller skating have been picked up for use in pairs figure skating, so apparently there is very much a cross-fertilization in terms of inspirational exploration of movement, jump and lift entries, and developing and enhancing basic elements in keeping with each sport's equipment and surface requirements/restrictions.

I didn't know that Matteo never medaled at a roller skating World championship. So then I suppose Matteo and his former partner, Venerucci, at least reached the level of Italian champions in singles and pairs, but did not make it to championship success at the World level? That's interesting Matteo was not successful on the World stage in roller skating because Matteo is so exciting to watch on roller blades. What would have been the drawback to him reaching the top in roller skating? His interest in other pursuits such as modeling? Was he recruited by the Italian skating federation to switch to figure skating? I totally agree with your assessment of Sara's talent in comparison to Matteo's. Sara is technically perhaps not as strong, but she has lovely lines, connection and artistry.

What a fascinating niche sport with an interesting but unknown history, not unlike figure skating (aside from figure skating becoming popularized after catching on at the Olympics in a big way starting in 1968). It might be helpful if figure skating and roller skating cognoscenti cooperated more on finding ways to collaborate as well as to better promote their respective sports to wider audiences.

The pair spin...........I'd hate to get whacked with a skate in the face (did you see the part where his skate went over her as she laid back?!).
My Lord, it would be cool to see this or something similar in pairs figure skating, but much more risky and dangerous with skate blades involved. So perhaps there's a variation that could be performed without the skate blade coming so close to the female partner.
 
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Sk8swan

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Thanks I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I thought it might be flip jumps in the video you posted rather than lutz jumps but I wasn't sure, and I couldn't detect for certain the number of revolutions. Wow, seriously amazing since roller skates don't provide as much speed as figure skates to launch high enough in the air to make the revolutions. They are serious athletes. Is Rebecca the same Rebecca in the video of the younger skaters?
@aftershocks I don't know what video are you referring to but here is a youtube page with videos of very young Rebecca who used to compete at National level even in artistic gymnastics (don't ask me how she found the time to do everything! lol)
https://www.youtube.com/user/rotellajoe
I suggest the 3 older videos where she was the cutest tiny thing jumping, spinning, twirling in singles, pair...not just on the skating floor but also in the gym ;)
And here https://youtu.be/bl0s16yINhE is an interview with English subtitles from 2014 a few months after the started skating with Luca.

I will reply to the rest of your post later ;)
 
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Sk8swan

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I particularly appreciate learning about the fact that some of the lifts and lift entries used in roller skating have been picked up for use in pairs figure skating, so apparently there is very much a cross-fertilization in terms of inspirational exploration of movement, jump and lift entries, and developing and enhancing basic elements in keeping with each sport's equipment and surface requirements/restrictions.
In recent years a lot of Italian roller skaters have worked with people like Fusar Poli, Mezzadri, Vaturi to coreograph their program. And Patrick Venerucci (Sara's father and x10 world pair champion) have been working with Mozer when she came to Italy on summer camp and helped on a regular base Marchei Hotarek for their pair element. His wife Cristina Pelli, who used to coach Matteo when he roller skated worked with DM & G as well... so there is some kind of cooperation between the 2 sports... and that's something I have been hoping for so much in the past as we have a huge tradition here in pair roller skating but not as much in ice pair skating.

I didn't know that Matteo never medaled at a roller skating World championship. So then I suppose Matteo and his former partner, Venerucci, at least reached the level of Italian champions in singles and pairs, but did not make it to championship success at the World level? That's interesting Matteo was not successful on the World stage in roller skating because Matteo is so exciting to watch on roller blades. What would have been the drawback to him reaching the top in roller skating? His interest in other pursuits such as modeling? Was he recruited by the Italian skating federation to switch to figure skating? I totally agree with your assessment of Sara's talent in comparison to Matteo's. Sara is technically perhaps not as strong, but she has lovely lines, connection and artistry.
IIRC Sara and Matteo competed in singles at European level when the were younger but never at Senior level. Since Italy is a super power in roller skating the federation usually sends the very best skaters to Worlds and the second best skaters to Europeans so to give chance to more skaters to compete at international level (there is nth like Grand Prix in roller skating). Matteo never made the World team in singles as he could only land 3sal and 3toe... while the best skaters were landing all triple jumps. It was also probably a choice, as they aged to compete as senior, to invest more time training as a pair cause they were the very best in the discipline!

My Lord, it would be cool to see this or something similar in pairs figure skating, but much more risky and dangerous with skate blades involved. So perhaps there's a variation that could be performed without the skate blade coming so close to the female partner.
I would personally love to see the "lifted-sit" pair spin (when the man lifts the lady while in a sit position with free leg stretched sideway) done on the ice as well but apparently figure skating rules do not allow that...I think it's the same for the guillotine (the name says it all...LOL)
 

Japanfan

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And there appears to be a number of limitations involved with the rollers that affect their ability to exhibit a smooth, flowing style like what we see in pairs skating on the ice. Clearly, the sport of roller skating has borrowed a lot of moves and patterns and overall program construction from pairs figure skating, right down to simulating the ice surface. But should they?
I guess one might say 'why not'?

If roller skaters don't do routines, they can only race around a track.

Roller skates certainly don't allow for the flow and fluidity of movement that ice skates do. Which may be one of the reasons why people aren't attracted to following the sport (at least at figure skating fandom levels). I don't think I could watch a lot of roller skate routines, as I do with FS.

But I also like to think that figure skating got smth from roller skating as well....difficult entrances and dismounts has always been typical in roller pairs, the reverse lift has been a "compulsory" lift for ages while only in recent years figure skaters added that lift (considered among the most difficult) to their programs. I remember how British Eurosport commentators where :eek: at Marika Zanforlin & Federico Degli Esposti's 'no hands' reverse lift at their European debut back in 2008... and for them it was just a 'basic' lift!
Perhaps figure skating did take something from roller skating.

But I'm not sure that anyone pays attention to roller skating, including people involved in FS. I don't recall ever seeing roller skating on TV, or ever hearing about a roller skating competition. My guess is that it is a very 'small' sport in terms of the number of people who are involved in it or watch it.
 

Sk8swan

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Perhaps figure skating did take something from roller skating.

But I'm not sure that anyone pays attention to roller skating, including people involved in FS. I don't recall ever seeing roller skating on TV, or ever hearing about a roller skating competition. My guess is that it is a very 'small' sport in terms of the number of people who are involved in it or watch it.
It's definitely more that roller skaters look at the figure skating world than viceversa but as I mentioned before I cannot help but thinking there was something from the roller skating that has been introduced in figure skating in recent years and I'm thinking of some pairs lifts in particular.
I'll tell you a story. Back in late 90s I was a huge fan of Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze and as they were somehow criticized for their "easy" lifts I decided to send a tape of roller skating lifts from the best Italian pairs to their coach Moskvina. I can say she was pretty impressed with the tape as she wrote me back a letter to thank me adding that some of those lifts were not allowed in figure skating but some could have been adapted to be performed on the ice. This said maybe it's just a coincidence but from the following years (thanks to rules changes for sure!) simple lasso lifts with no variation of position have been replaced more and more often by lifts with variations of positions and difficult entrance and dismounts... and lifts among the most difficult are now the reverse lift (which has always been 'compulsory' in roller skating). The star lift with the girl in a split position is becoming now more and more common in figure skating nowadays... thats a lift performed in roller skating at least since the 90s.
So to give you an idea of what kind of lifts were done in roller pair skating back in the 90s https://youtu.be/KKOmZ0aytME (sorry for the bad quality)
And check here at min. 1.45 https://youtu.be/6yRMdcCKbPw (start as a reverse lift and ends with that star split position I mentioned above).
 
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aftershocks

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Perhaps figure skating did take something from roller skating.

But I'm not sure that anyone pays attention to roller skating, ...
Yeah, I was learning from and responding to @Sk8swan, who obviously knows a lot about roller skating. See Sk8swan's wonderfully informative reply above. :)

Sure roller skating has a smaller audience, but that doesn't mean we can't find 'anyone that pays attention to roller skating...' There are obviously many fans of roller skating, and it's clearly a big sport in Italy, albeit much more of a niche sport than figure skating. But even figure skating was probably much more obscure and very niche re its audience prior to widespread television coverage which began in the 1960s.


Thanks so much @Skswan for sharing that story about your having sent Moskvina a tape of roller skating lifts. Since Moskvina wrote back to you indicating how impressed she was, surely she gained some inspiration from viewing the tapes of roller skating lifts. Moskvina definitely already possessed creativity in the way she looked at her skaters and choreographed for them, so it's reasonable to imagine that with her fertile mind she ended up incorporating some of the roller skating moves with her own ideas for B/S.
 

Japanfan

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Sure roller skating has a smaller audience, but that doesn't mean we can't find 'anyone that pays attention to roller skating...'
Well, let's just say it has a small audience.

But even figure skating was probably much more obscure and very niche re its audience prior to widespread television coverage which began in the 1960s.
Oh, for sure.

If roller skating was shown on TV, I'd probably watch it.
 

Sk8swan

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Worldwide I agree with you...very few people know the sport even exist expecially if compared to how popular figure skating is. In Italy the sport is spread everywhere but despite the fact there are MANY more roller skaters (the best winning everything at world level) than figure skaters it's extremely rare competitions are shown on tv... luckily over the past few years the federation has streaming broadcast for the major competitions so there is chance for a much wider audience to follow them.
 

Winnipeg

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I used to roller skate. It's fun but when you fall, a lot of friction...............there used to be a lot of broken arms as I recall, fortunately not me
 

Sk8swan

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I used to roller skate. It's fun but when you fall, a lot of friction...............there used to be a lot of broken arms as I recall, fortunately not me
I can tell you...it still happens!!! Most common injury I would say. Count me in for a very bad displaced wrist fracture after colliding back to back with another skater in practice when I was a skater myself!
 

Simone411

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Thanks for this. I've watched roller skating championships before on YouTube. I came across it when I was searching for a particular figure skating video. I started watching more videos after that, and I was amazed at how similar roller skating and ice skating were.

I searched for US Roller Skating after that, and found US Roller Sports at the Team USA website.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Roller-Sports
The USA Figure Skating Championships was held in August of this year.
 

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