Alysa Liu Switches to Colorado Coaching Team

[tony]

Liu’s Instagram bio edit is going to add a layer of mystery to this. Those are

 

[toddlj]

Lots of guesses here... which are just guesses.

I'm going to hope for the best and think good thoughts!

 

[PRlady]

I think @Ruby999 nailed it so well I suspect she’s in my line of work. I don’t know enough about training to know if Christy can help her get her jumps around in two months. I do know that once you have that UR reputation, it’s hard as hell to get rid of it.

 

[wickedwitch]

I think @Ruby999 nailed it so well I suspect she’s in my line of work. I don’t know enough about training to know if Christy can help her get her jumps around in two months. I do know that once you have that UR reputation, it’s hard as hell to get rid of it.

I'm not sure if there's literally any coach in the world who could. Maybe the triples, although I'm doubtful about even that, but not the quad.

 

[olympic]

Relieved that her coach will be Christy Krall!

 

[DreamSkates]

As a couple of US insiders have said for a while, this is almost certainly USFS again, not her Dad... But I think a crazy Dad is a lot more exciting story for folks on the forum than USFS messing with coaching situations.

Please explain how this works - that the USFS makes these decisions.

 

[Willin]

@DreamSkates It appears I was wrong about this change - though I still think there's something weird going on with it - but USFS does "recommend" changes to skaters. Times I can think of (though there are many more):

-Gracie Gold was their favorite for the Olympic podium, but wasn't quite there yet, so they "encouraged" her to go to Frank Carroll
-Jason Brown was amazing, but USFS knew he needed a 3A/quad (his 3s are textbook, but his rise happened with the rise of the quad). They tried to get him away from Kori for years to send him to a more jump focused coach until finally he switched coaches to TCC (not who USFS wanted)
-Kayne/O'Shea had success in Florida but struggled with twists, so USFS encouraged them to switch to Dalilah to based solely on the need to improve that element

In general skaters like Liu, Gold, Brown, and other with coaches who are less well connected are directed to move to well connected clubs and rinks. Sometimes this is direct while sometimes this is more writing on the wall (notice how a skater's scores jump domestically when they move to CS but drop when they move away from CS?).

 

[skatinggold]

Alysa is bringing the drama to US figure skating this season. I bet after Nationals, we might see another coach change. She will have more drama than the Russian skaters.

 

[BittyBug]

Relieved that her coach will be Christy Krall!

As I read it, her coaches will be Drew and Viktor, with Krall and Shipstad serving as technical consultant using Dartfish, so I would expect that it will be either Meekins or Pfeifer who will be with her at the boards at competitions.

From Phil Hirsch's article:

Meekins, world junior pairs’ champion in 2006, said in a text message he and Pfeifer would be in charge of Liu’s overall training.

 

[rfisher]

Yes, well the USFS can suggest what they want, but given they don't pay the coach, or pay for ice time, etc., they really have zero say in what a skater does. The funding received from the USFS doesn't come close to covering all expenses incurred by the skater or their family. The US system is not like Russia or China where the federation does have control of funding.

 

[dancing_on_ice]

I don't think Alysa is happy about this change . Her Insta bio right now says "i live in the san francisco bay area lol (not colorado)"

This was already a risky move, but this will really backfire spectacularly if Alysa doesn't want to be there.

www.instagram.com/alysaxliu/

 

[tony]

Edited out because I keep repeating the same things without adding anything new.

 

[Vagabond]

I don't think Alysa is happy about this change . Her Insta bio right now says "i live in the san francisco bay area lol (not colorado)"

This was already a risky move, but this will really backfire spectacularly if Alysa doesn't want to be there.

instagram.com/alysaxliu/

It appears that Alysa Liu has been reading this very thread.

Convenience Store
hmm okay idrc

Hi, Alysa!

 

[honey]

The nbc sports article has been updated with a kind of strange clarification. Has not moved there but will train there? Ok then. Seems like an odd thing to mention. Makes Alysa’s insta bio even more curious.

“Arthur Liu added that his daughter had not moved to Colorado Springs but was merely there for training. He said she would also train at times in Oakland with Phillip DiGuglielmo, who had been her pull harness coach there, but she would be spending most of the time between now and the U.S. Championships in Colorado. The Liu family lives near Oakland.”

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2021/11/22/alysa-liu-coaching-change-colorado-figure-skating/

 

[Sylvia]

Hersh's article now also contains quotes from Scali and Abbott:

Scali said he was taken aback by the split.
“Alysa is an amazing young woman, and I’m so proud of the work we’ve accomplished in the past two years,” Scali texted. “Even though the decision came as a shock to me, I respect it and wish her nothing but the best. In my heart, I will always cherish our journey together, and I will be here cheering her on.”
Abbott’s reaction was similar.
“I have nothing but deep respect and gratitude for the team I was so lucky to be a part of, and for the time I got to spend mentoring a truly remarkable human being,” Abbott said via text. “Though I may no longer be coaching Alysa, I will always be in her corner supporting her.”

 

[wickedwitch]

@DreamSkates It appears I was wrong about this change - though I still think there's something weird going on with it - but USFS does "recommend" changes to skaters. Times I can think of (though there are many more):

-Gracie Gold was their favorite for the Olympic podium, but wasn't quite there yet, so they "encouraged" her to go to Frank Carroll
-Jason Brown was amazing, but USFS knew he needed a 3A/quad (his 3s are textbook, but his rise happened with the rise of the quad). They tried to get him away from Kori for years to send him to a more jump focused coach until finally he switched coaches to TCC (not who USFS wanted)
-Kayne/O'Shea had success in Florida but struggled with twists, so USFS encouraged them to switch to Dalilah to based solely on the need to improve that element

In general skaters like Liu, Gold, Brown, and other with coaches who are less well connected are directed to move to well connected clubs and rinks. Sometimes this is direct while sometimes this is more writing on the wall (notice how a skater's scores jump domestically when they move to CS but drop when they move away from CS?).

Where did you hear that? I would think they would be thrilled he ended up at TCC.

Also, K/O have said they had to switch not because of their twist, but because of Tarah's physical health and injury recovery, which the doctors at the US Oly Training Center could help with/\.

 

[overedge]

I had no idea that jump coaching had evolved to the point where someone is designated as a jump harness coach. I mean, the person guiding the skater in the harness is usually the coach working with them on the jump.

And re the USFS and its degree of control, no, it doesn't hand out enough funding that it can use that as an incentive to get skaters to do what it wants. But like other feds it controls lots of non-financial things, like international competitive assignments, invitations to training camps, etc etc. It certainly does have opportunities that it can decide to make available to skaters who follow what it "suggests".

 

[Willin]

@wickedwitch They wanted him with a jump-focused coach a la Rafael or Tom Z. If he was at TCC with Brian Orser they may have been happy, but not with Tracy Wilson - who is not primarily a jump coach. As for Kayne and O'Shea, I heard it wasn't the only thing, but why USFS wanted Dalilah for them as opposed to the several other pair's coaches also in CS.

@overedge Exactly - does no one here notice when CS skaters get magic assignments at internationals over skaters who have scored higher domestically? Or how skaters who do what USFS wants get more benefit of the doubt in the competition selection process during a down year (some of the comps include pay for podiums)? Or how the younger ones get more invites to invite only stuff? Or how USFS helps certain coaches/skaters get judges/monitors more than others? There's many reasons you want to stay in USFS's good graces.

 

[Frau Muller]

… USFS does "recommend" changes to skaters. ……In general skaters like Liu, Gold, Brown, and other with coaches who are less well connected are directed to move to well connected clubs and rinks. ….

Bradie Tennell too? Remember when she moved from Denise Myers in her home area to Tom Z in Colorado?

By the way, I love Alysa’s new hairdo with the bangs. Wow - really flattering!

 

[Spikefan]

This appears to be Alyssa’s way of stating it is not permanent. The idrc seems to indicate they don’t really care about what’s happening. Kind of I’ll go with the flow, I’m here for a few months and then I’m done. Of course that ambivalence could make things interesting. Or, like a lot of teens they just enjoy f’ing with us. Time will tell.

 

[4rkidz]

Shame that covid ultimately threw a spanner in the works as ideally she would have been focusing on jumps with Barkell as opposed to primarily the artistry with her current team. I personally think this is a good move, Krall will be respectful yet firm. Ultimately they are the buyers and the payers so totally up to them to get what they think is deserved. All good she leaves with two great programs and now can focus on confidence and jumps. Good luck to the new team I hope she can challenge the Russians!

 

[Karen-W]

Hmmmm... Dad disagreed about the intensity of her training - he's on record in the Hersh article saying that, Alysa likes a normal teenage life, Dad wants quads by Beijing, Alysa has not MOVED to Colorado but is only there to train between now and Nationals/Olympics and has made that CLEAR on the IG bio - so much so that the Hersh article has been edited to state this is not a permanent move... Really makes one wonder just who Dad was upset with - this sounds very much like the figure skating version of "off to military school!" for misbehaving teenage boys.

 

[BittyBug]

Hersh's article now also contains quotes from Scali and Abbott:

Very classy of them.

I had no idea that jump coaching had evolved to the point where someone is designated as a jump harness coach. I mean, the person guiding the skater in the harness is usually the coach working with them on the jump.

Properly using a harness is a skill and there are definitely coaches who specialize in the harness, just as there are coaches who specialize in Dartfish, or spins, etc.

 

[overedge]

Ultimately they are the buyers and the payers so totally up to them to get what they think is deserved.

This statement makes me uncomfortable. Yes, parents do pay a lot of the expenses for their kids in elite sports. But saying that they should be able to do whatever they want with their athletes because they pay the bills doesn't sit right. Not all parents have the knowledge or the judgment to choose what's best for their child, as an athlete or as a person.

 

[maatTheViking]

This statement makes me uncomfortable. Yes, parents do pay a lot of the expenses for their kids in elite sports. But saying that they should be able to do whatever they want with their athletes because they pay the bills doesn't sit right. Not all parents have the knowledge or the judgment to choose what's best for their child, as an athlete or as a person.

unless they abuse their kids and CPS needs to be involved, then in the end yes? Who should else decide?

Should the USFA decide regardless of the parents wishes? Should the coach (but what happens if the parents don't want to pay?). Should the athlete - this might reasonable, except does the athlete know more than the coach or USFA?

When I choose a tutor for my kid, I do choose if it's the right person. I do pick if I do or don't want this style of tutoring. I don't actually know if I'm right, but all the kid's teacher and special education helpers can do is advice. In the end, as a parent, I have my own opinions and my own research. I don't want to fail my kid, but if I'm not making that choice then who is?

a parent or an over-18 skater calling the final shot about their training might not be the perfect result, but in the end who would make the choice but not them?

 

[overedge]

@maatTheViking You make some really good points. To use your tutoring example, some parents might choose a tutor because they want their child to understand the subject better. Other parents might choose a tutor because they want their child to get a better grade, regardless of whether the child actually understands the material (e.g. the child might just be memorizing or repeating by rote). Parents might not understand how or why a subject is being taught a certain way in school, and get a tutor because the school teacher isn't teaching the "right" way, at least as they understand the "right" way.

I don't think the skating federation should always override or contradict what parents want, but on the other hand some parents - I'm speaking generally here - have unrealistic expectations of what good training looks like, or how quickly a skater should be making progress. I think the federation has a responsibility to ensure, as much as possible, that the skater is training safely and appropriately. Parents might not be making perfect choices, but hopefully the federation or the coaches can help them understand the best choices, under the circumstances.

 

[coppertop1]

The parent who seems to call the shots and switching his daughter from coach to coach is giving me Mira Leung flashbacks. I'm not saying the two skaters are similar but the situation reminds me of Mira's mother who kept switching Mira around.

 

[4rkidz]

This statement makes me uncomfortable. Yes, parents do pay a lot of the expenses for their kids in elite sports. But saying that they should be able to do whatever they want with their athletes because they pay the bills doesn't sit right. Not all parents have the knowledge or the judgment to choose what's best for their child, as an athlete or as a person.

Unless some type of abuse I think the parent and skater get to decide what they think is best. Coaches are not exactly neutral and it is a business relationship. I have total respect for coaches but having spent many years professionally working with both coaches and parents the decision making should remain with the parents/skater.

 

[MacMadame]

This appears to be Alyssa’s way of stating it is not permanent. The idrc seems to indicate they don’t really care about what’s happening. Kind of I’ll go with the flow, I’m here for a few months and then I’m done. Of course that ambivalence could make things interesting. Or, like a lot of teens they just enjoy f’ing with us. Time will tell.

I don't get that from her IG at all. I thought the IDRC was directed at all the gossipers (and probably also a bunch of people DMing her). As in, IDRC what you think.

This statement makes me uncomfortable. Yes, parents do pay a lot of the expenses for their kids in elite sports. But saying that they should be able to do whatever they want with their athletes because they pay the bills doesn't sit right. Not all parents have the knowledge or the judgment to choose what's best for their child, as an athlete or as a person.

And these statements make me uncomfortable. The parent is ultimately responsible for the welfare of their child. Not a coach or an NGB like USFS or an agent (if they have one). Therefore, the choice is ultimately theirs. Of course, they need to listen to their kid and to the experts but in the end, they have the decision-making power and that is as it should be.

The parent who seems to call the shots and switching his daughter from coach to coach is giving me Mira Leung flashbacks. I'm not saying the two skaters are similar but the situation reminds me of Mira's mother who kept switching Mira around.

Alysa stayed with her first coach for years even though people tried to get her to switch to a more well-known coach. And she's been with Abbott and Scali for two years even though the plan to also use Barkell in Canada didn't work out. I don't think it's the same situation at all.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

What makes me uncomfortable is statements from like 5 or 6 different men about what a teenage girl will do and why without even mild lip service being paid to pretending to express what she wants.