A Divine Sport blog

clairecloutier said:
Here is my Europeans 2017 pairs review: https://adivinesport.com/2017/01/31/europeans-2017-pairs-review/.

What a terrific competition this was!! :)
Click to expand...
Great post. I have to agree with pretty much everything you said. I've wanted to like T/M more ever since they made their senior debut, but the programs are such a waste of their talent and the marks they've gotten for some of their elements recently have been...interesting. It's too bad, considering their sublime SS and lines. What role is Robin playing in their programs/packaging choice? Does he also have bad taste like coach Elton John or does he simply surrender those decisions to her? I don't want to believe T/M themselves truly like that lp music. meh. Very happy for J/C that they finally delivered big. I do have to say there's a big difference in speed and ss between them and aliona, S/K, T/M. But I'm being picky now...
 
Thanks @s_parks!

In regard to T/M, what I've read is that Peter Tchernyshev choreographed the "Glam" SP, while Alexander Gazsi (former German ice dancer) choreographed the "Music" LP. I'm not sure how much of a role Robin played in the program selection vs. Mozer--but, considering he and Gazsi were longtime German teammates, it seems likely Robin was involved at least in choosing Gaszi, if not that bizarro um, interesting, music. I saw an interview with T/M in which they said they liked both new programs, but especially the SP. Considering the cheeseball packaging of the LP, it's actually pretty amazing they're having so much success with it.

I'm very happy for J/C, too. They've waited a long time for this success. I do agree with you, though, about the speed/skating skills difference.
 
clairecloutier said:
Considering the cheeseball packaging of the LP, it's actually pretty amazing they're having so much success with it.
Click to expand...

I think T/M came out looking a bit more animated this year and have had a lot of consistency since the problem with throw quad twist element at Skate America. For awhile, they decided to stick with trying to do what they do well and get high GOE. I also think politicking is involved with T/M being championed in the absence of V/T and with Stol/Klim out for a time with injury. We can't argue with T/M's delicious skating skills, but overall they lack maturity and 'seasoning.' Plus they still need to develop more of a genuine on-ice connection and find better music/ packaging.

I wonder if not for Aliona's slip in the sp whether the judges would have had S/M edge T/M in the sp. I think that 80+ for T/M in the sp was overly high. And thanks for pointing out the discrepancies in GOE marks in the sp for T/M vs S/M.

As for Zabijako/Enbert, nyet! Of course they have the long lines and budding elegance of typical Russian pair aesthetic, which is automatically valued and rewarded out the wazoo. I so much wanted to see Bazarova/Deputat make it together as a pair -- they had some sexy chemistry and a lot of possibility, but it didn't come together for them quickly enough, so the plug was pulled. I also grew to enjoy Ashtakova/Rogonov, but now there's an uphill battle for them with the ascendancy of Z/E. :(

For me, Z/E are just another boring Russian pair who will be able to improve with regular experience on the international scene while getting high marks despite still having a lot to work on. Right now, IMO, they are like a clone of Bazarova/Larionov, although they are much better matched than B/L, which is to their advantage. I see some tentativeness in Z/E's movements and overly studied expressions from them, and right now IMHO, they are kind of immature in the sense of not truly using their long lines very well, even though they possess that attribute. Above all, they are just boring and nothing stands out except the fact of being another in a long line Russian factory-made pairs. Thankfully, the junior up-and-coming Russian pairs teams have more personality and are being impacted in a positive way by Western influences.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the review Claire and for including the link to the article about Sui's surgery. I have even more admiration for the girl after reading it. Their performances were my favorite of the weekend and there were several really great skates from which to choose!
 
Thanks Claire for another great review. I am more excited about Pairs than I have been in a long time! Looking forward to Worlds and next season for the U. S. Pairs.
 
Thanks @maureenfarone, I'm glad you liked it! :)

I am really excited for Worlds. So many great teams fighting for medals!

And yes, hoping we will see good performances from U.S. pairs Denney/Frazier and Knierim/Knierim.
 
essence_of_soy said:
I kind of love Tarasova and Morozov's free skate. It's so deliciously cheesy but fantastic at the same time. They're really into it too, which is great to see.
Click to expand...

"Deliciously cheesy"--LOL! ;) I know what you mean. The program can be kind of fun, in a retro way, especially when they're skating well. I actually like it more than most people do. (And hey, the Eurosport guys like it too, even calling it "a great choice of music"!):D
 
clairecloutier said:
"Deliciously cheesy"--LOL! ;) I know what you mean. The program can be kind of fun, in a retro way, especially when they're skating well. I actually like it more than most people do. (And hey, the Eurosport guys like it too, even calling it "a great choice of music"!):D
Click to expand...
Whaaatttt! That song has become an earworm for me! I just got it out of my head and now I am reminded of it again! Oh well, just once more at Worlds' and then it can be put to bed.
 
@clairecloutier - Great prediction blog post. I agree with the top 3 picks. I think it is going to be a tight competition. But I have a feeling that James/Cipres may end up 4th or 5. I think they have a really good shot at placing ahead of Stolbova/Klimov and Duhamel and Radford.
 
Nice read - it is going to be a dogfight! I am more thinking:

Sui/Han
Savchenko/Massot
Duhamel/Radford (they do pull it out at Worlds)
Tarasova/Morozov
James/Cipres
Stolbova/Klimov

But my wishes would be:

S/M
S/H
J/C
T/M
S/K
D/R
 
^^ I pretty much agree with your picks (predictions and faves) @Spun Silver, except I have a soft spot for D/R, and I would wish for them to be above T/M and S/K at the least.

Thanks @clairecloutier. I enjoy your assessments as always. The thought and research behind it shows. :) Your top picks seem to be a high possibility. Definitely, all of the top six have a great chance to be on the podium, so specific picks are difficult to narrow down.

Re the other tiers: I must say for me personally, I would not have Z/E as highly placed. Definitely, it is not clear how Seguin/Bilodeau will fare in their comeback from injury, and they have had problems with their programs this season. They even scrapped their sp to bring back one from a prior season. In any case, overall I think S/B are a better team than Z/E. I also think that the young Czechs Duskova/Bidar have a chance to place higher. I/M's results will depend upon those sbs jumps definitely.

Yu/Zhang are definitely a wild card and should do well enough for the Chinese to grab back a third spot for next year. I'm rooting for the Knierims to place higher than 11th too. We can hope for at least 9th or 10th can't we? :drama: Like I/M, the Knierim's results are also largely dependent on consistency of their sbs jumps. ETA: I do see that you mention 10th place as a hopeful, best case scenario for Alexa/Chris.

I agree with you about the difficulties that Haven/Brandon have faced with her comeback from serious knee surgery. However, I'm hopeful they won't be lower than 13th or 14th (maybe better if they are stronger and fitter :drama:). Fingers-crossed!
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your highly - considered and detailed preview of this week's World Championships. So much returning veteran, new, and up - and - coming talent this year, too. We are very excited.

Hopefully, Australia's Alexandrovskaya & Windsor can capitalise on the momentum they have built with their outstanding debut season this year, and make the all - important, top sixteen.

By substituting the required double axels they have been jumping at the junior level for triple toe loops (which they are doing at the senior level), if they skate clean, hopefully the team will break 60 points as well as qualify an Australian team for next year's Olympic Games.
 
I think it's misleading to speak of Top 16 in Pairs making both the FS *and* qualifying for the Olympics. According to the Special Regs, countries earning three or two have precedence over those earning one. 12+16, 13+15, 10+not making the FS all trump 11th.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
I think it's misleading to speak of Top 16 in Pairs making both the FS *and* qualifying for the Olympics. According to the Special Regs, countries earning three or two have precedence over those earning one. 12+16, 13+15, 10+not making the FS all trump 11th.
Click to expand...
Fascinating: All the things you know about figure skating :). Thanks
 
kwanfan1818 said:
I think it's misleading to speak of Top 16 in Pairs making both the FS *and* qualifying for the Olympics. According to the Special Regs, countries earning three or two have precedence over those earning one. 12+16, 13+15, 10+not making the FS all trump 11th.
Click to expand...


Can you post a link to these regulations, please? Thanks.
 
http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pair-skating-and-ice-dance/special-regulations-and-technical-rules

It's Rule 400, paragraph 3 (emphasis mine):

Twenty-four (24) entries in the Ladies event and the Men event, sixteen (16) entries in the Pairs event and nineteen (19) entries in the Ice Dance event will be determined according to the classification outlined in paragraph 2 above. For this purpose ISU Members who have earned the right for two (2) or three (3) entries at the immediately preceding year’s World Senior Championships earn the same right for the Olympic Winter Games and remaining ISU Members are listed in order of their best placed Skater in the same World Senior Championships. If the application of the above procedure results in more than twenty-four (24) Ladies or Men, sixteen (16) Pairs, or nineteen (19) Ice Dance Couples being eligible for direct entry, the last ISU Members to reach the qualifying limit would not be permitted to enter a Skater/Pair/Couple that would cause the limit to be exceeded.
Click to expand...

If your predictions hold, for example, spots earned in Helsinki for 2018 Worlds would be:
  • China-3 (1+7)
  • Russia-3 (2+4)
  • Canada-3 (5+8)
Then, depending on their definition of "last", ie, 1. higher point total, or 2. best-placed skater placing highest, or 3. the first country whose total when added together crosses the line last, with no stipulation for a tie-break
  • Germany-2 (3+not making FS)-20
  • France-2 (6+not making FS)-24
  • US-2 (11+15)-26
  • Italy-2 (12+14)-26
In this case, 17 spots would be earned for 2018 Worlds, but, according to Rule 400, only 16 spots can be earned at 2017 Worlds for the 2018 OWG. Plus paragraph 4 prohibits earning additional spots at the qualifier, if you've earned at least one at prior Worlds.

The remaining open entries available will be filled by ISU Members in order of their placements at a Senior International Competition designated by the ISU and conducted in the autumn of the calendar year immediately preceding the Olympic Winter Games. The open entries are available only to those ISU Members who have not previously earned an entry and only one entry per ISU Member may be earned.
Click to expand...

So in your predictions, one country would lose a spot and be SOL for the OWG, unless there was a Decision of Council to make an exception. And Duskova/Bidar (your 13) would have to qualify at Nebelhorn. The question is the definition of "last" and which country that could be. If it is the highest point total, then US and Italy would be tied, and they'd need a tie-breaker, which isn't even listed. If it's the best-placed skater placing highest, then Italy would be last. If it's the last country to earn two spots, you've got Hase/Seegert (20) over Esbrat/Novoselov (24), so France would be the last.

Typically, Duskova/Bidar's 13th would be enough, but probably not this season. They'd need to be Top 10 to secure at least one spot.
 
Thank you @kwanfan1818 !! My goodness it's confusing. Especially with the lack of clarity around what the "last ISU Members to reach the qualifying limit" means. I will try to update my post somewhat to reflect this but it's just hard to know what will happen.

I'm not sure I like the rule that any team below placement 17 gets the same points (i.e., 18). It doesn't seem quite right to me. There is a difference between placing 17th and 28th. For example, let's say my predictions on the French pairs hold and they place 6 and 24. Under the current rules, the 24 changes to 18, and their total is 24. But if their real placements were calculated, their total would be 30. Big difference in terms of spots. Big difference vs. the U.S. and Italian pairs, should my predictions for them hold. I would really hate it if the French qualify 2 teams to the Olympics at the expense of either Italy or the U.S. Because let's face it, there is a big quality difference between any #2 French team and the #2 Italian or U.S. teams. If that makes sense. the same is true of the German pairs.
 
Great job, as always. You are always so open to all the skaters, even Yu/Zhang (I'm sure that cost a small pang) but also dispassionate in detailing errors. I couldnt do it!

One thing that puzzles me: why do Meagan's errors get ascribed (by implication) to Eric's injury? It's not like their season was spectacular before Worlds.

One thing I would love to see more of -- discussion of how some pairs are able to transcend the elements, even at Worlds, and create magic, while others are not. You allude to this with the top pairs and others, like I/M, but you don't dwell on it. I realize the IJS is not about magic, but fans and even many experts are. Your analysis mostly stays within the limits of the IJS. While I do appreciate all that technical detail, I dont see why it has to be your outer limit. I think you are among those who criticize the current program components scoring system, right? So it would make sense to go beyond it to get at why and how some pairs achieve the greatness we fans long for. Perhaps in that way you could contribute to a revision of the PCS.

Just a thought! I appreciate all the labor and knowledge that goes into your recaps and they comprise a great reference work. Thank you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Similar threads

TAHbKA
`For how long will Scherbakova stick around?' Interview with the parents
Replies
3
Views
5K
Coco
Coco
TAHbKA
Interview with Volosozhar/Trankov
2 3
Replies
67
Views
18K
Mad for Skating
Mad for Skating
TAHbKA
Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with TAT
Replies
20
Views
5K
Tinami Amori
Tinami Amori
TAHbKA
Cherniavskaya's interview with Tuktamysheva `The experience of not making the Olys is my advantage'
Replies
17
Views
2K
bardtoob
bardtoob
TAHbKA
Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Ilinykh `I do boxing at the weekends'
2
Replies
46
Views
9K
kwanfan1818
kwanfan1818
Back
Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information