2025 Cup of China Mens SP PBP - Yesterday (All My Wobbles Seemed So Far Away)

[tony]

Trash judging all around. Rotation calls nonexistent for the most part, Boyang Jin supposedly with 7.75 skating skills when he's quite possibly the weakest skater in that regard on the Grand Prix year after year.

Grassl tied for highest presentation...

 

[Debbie S]

Shaidorov and his team are presumably trying to match Ilia by going with a rock music theme, but he doesn't seem to be comfortable with the style.

 

[Lana K]

Shaidorov and his team are presumably trying to match Ilia by going with a rock music theme, but he doesn't seem to be comfortable with the style.

Yeah, I think sticking with In the Air Tonight would’ve suited him better. That music really builds nicely and it wasn’t used to its best, IMO.

 

[skatingguy]

Short Program Protocols

 

[zigzig]

Sweet Jesus - W. T. Literal. F. was up with that judging?! What is happening?!

Shun - classy, neat, elegant. Not the most thrilling skater but gorgeous elements and well choreographed program. Criminal that he is less than 4 points ahead of Grassl.

Grassl - don't know what deal he has with the devil to nab these generous calls. The lutz was definitely < and flirting with << and only gets a q, the toe was called clean, and with the q and the messy turn he doesn't get a single -5? The axel was obviously q at best and likely < and gets a clean call with positive GOE? And don't even get me started on those PCS. Dull program, shallow edges, juniorish interpretation and he gets a 40+ PCS? W T F PEOPLE.

Shaidorov - mind is still reeling from him getting a < on his quad lutz while Grassl gets a q. REELING. And yeah he needs to get into the music more. He was really going through the motions here. Good music cut tho.

Yamamoto - his skating his a long slog to purgatory but his tech should have been higher than Grassl's.

Jin - glad he did well. I've always liked his tenacity and dedication even if the skating leaves me cold.

Hiwatashi - AGAIN - getting a q on the axel, while Grassl's is called clean? I. can't. Good skate though. Showing up this season to really make his case for the 3rd men's spot.

Cha - ouch. Like the program though.

Litvi - literally just watched him skate and barely remember anything about him.

Sanchez - shame about the combo. Atrocious costume. Like everything else about him though.

Peng - good for him for standing up on the quad combo.

Deniss - YIKES. not ekeing out a double toe on a lutz with just a hands down is so 90s. nowadays skaters will figure out a way to tack on a double toe even if they land on their face. Program and costume are serving novice men 2nd place finisher at regionals.

Dai - love him but he's a trainwreck.

 

[Wyliefan]

There's a touch of the old Yaroslav Paniot stone face in Shaidorov. But just as with Paniot, I find it endearingly amusing.

 

[jenny12]

Shun Sato
Coach: Tadao Kusaka, Keiko Asano
Music: Ladies in Lavender

4Lz
4T+3T
Change Foot Sit Spin 4
Flying Camel Spin 3
3A
Step Sequence 2
Change Foot Combo Spin 4

Excellent skate for Shun, and his overall presentation was good with the posture, and flow looking improved.

94.13 = 1st Place

Shun Sato has really gotten better year after year. I find him completely lovely.

I always love watching Junwhan Cha. Sad about the jump problems.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Jacob looks more refined now. More extension. Some of the non-jump elements great quality. Love the pink on his dark coloring,

 

[kwanfan1818]

Superficial thoughts on catch-up

I can see how a casual fan would have expected Jin to lead, or at least be a lot closer. He just does not move well in his upper body; his carriage is poor. I kept expecting his music to morph into "Who Wants to Live Forever."

Aside: Let's all be on camera and film it from the cell phones in front of our faces.

For reasons I cannot remember, Tomoki Hiwatashi grabbed on of the quota of soft spots in my cold, cold heart, and he's never lost it, even when I expected him to retire for about three years in a row. Even when he's doing an early Jimmy Ma imitation, and his last-impression spin grinds to a halt. He's in the final group at least.

Aside: I want a hit of what Howarth is smoking.

Livintsev. I like the look, even if the in-the-middle-of-growing-out-hair-length could use a little help. He looks less tiny and junior and more grown up all in black. Some nice choreographic touches, and it looks like a program, which is more than I can say for a majority of the men.

Grassl's hair has improved from his helmet look. There are times he has beautiful carriage, use of his arms e, and fluidity, but that's not when he's stroking, in which he is as hunchy as he is on most of his jump take-offs. Hands are a bit clawy, but, thankfully, no gloves. which would have made them worse. Coach's look is tragic.

Sanchez is a work-in-progress and improving, but there was nothing in the rhythm of his skating around to set up elements that reflected the pulse of the music or its sweep. The timing was very square. It's like he's aiming to move with Vasiljevs clarity and is missing the groove.

Although it pains me to say it, Grassl's body movement and the way he held his tension was better than Cha's to me. I'm not sure if part of it is the choreography or just the delivery.

I could watch Vasiljevs forever.

I generally like Sota Yamamoto. He's not my favorite of the Japanese Men -- he's a bit too loosey-goosey physically for that -- but when he skates well and gets a spot on Japan's Men's championship team, I'm glad for him. But skating after Vasiljevs did him no favors. The only time his skating expressed the music was when the singer started to scream and he did the jump-kick thing in the footwork. He could have been setting jumps up to anything. Two/three though brought in the points, and even with q on the 4S, he got more points that with a solo triple. Unsolicited advice: put Vasiljevs on loop and just ignore the jumps.

Sato's program is lovely. I wish he had a little more ease at the beginning while setting up the jumps, but that would probably kill the speed. He's such a fine all-around skater.

Shaidorov is definitely taking on Malinin in his genre. He's more classically aligned than Malinin -- he doesn't have a lot of casual cool -- and is missing the element of in-the-moment surprise of a snowboarder, but the punch comes a beat later when realizing what he's just jumped.

Virtual PCS tie for the top 4.

 

[skateboy]

Grassl's score is absurd when every jump deserved a rotation call. Such willful blindness.

Perhaps, but with a 4Lz combo and 4Lo, he wouldn't lose that many points even with the calls.

 

[tony]

Perhaps, but with a 4Lz combo and 4Lo, he wouldn't lose that many points even with the calls.

Yes he would.

If you move both the 4Lz and 4Lo to a < (and his toe Axeled 3T, too) his base value goes from 26.2 to 20.96. The positive GOE he got on the loop would go away, so he'd probably see more -2 and -3. Let's say -2 for the sake of this.

He's now getting 8.88 for his 4Lz+3T combo when he actually scored 11.10.
For the 4Lo, he's now getting 6.72 (with -2) instead of the 11.85 he earned by no call and the positive GOE's. This is the big problem. A lenient panel is handing him (and others) 5+ points.

Even the Axel looked like it was landed a quarter short, yet managed +2's and +3's. But let's just keep that here.

Those jump issues as mentioned above, he's losing 7.35 points. In this competition, that moves him down to 6th (well 5th if everyone else moves up) and we are to assume the judges aren't being any harder on the PCS because of said jump rotation issues.

That's the difference between in position for the Grand Prix Final/the win versus some work to do in the free skate.

Now imagine looking the other way on 3-4 big jumps in the free skate, and giving + GOE to all of them.

 

[skateboy]

Yes he would.

If you move both the 4Lz and 4Lo to a < (and his toe Axeled 3T, too) his base value goes from 26.2 to 20.96. The positive GOE he got on the loop would go away, so he'd probably see more -2 and -3. Let's say -2 for the sake of this.

He's now getting 8.88 for his 4Lz+3T combo when he actually scored 11.10.
For the 4Lo, he's now getting 6.72 (with -2) instead of the 11.85 he earned by no call and the positive GOE's. This is the big problem. A lenient panel is handing him (and others) 5+ points.

Even the Axel looked like it was landed a quarter short, yet managed +2's and +3's. But let's just keep that here.

Those jump issues as mentioned above, he's losing 7.35 points. In this competition, that moves him down to 6th (well 5th if everyone else moves up) and we are to assume the judges aren't being any harder on the PCS because of said jump rotation issues.

That's the difference between in position for the Grand Prix Final/the win versus some work to do in the free skate.

Now imagine looking the other way on 3-4 big jumps in the free skate, and giving + GOE to all of them.

Fair enough. So, why do you think the panel refuses to call Grassl's jumps?

 

[tony]

Fair enough. So, why do you think the panel refuses to call Grassl's jumps?

Beats me. This panel was ridiculously lenient all day though between both singles disciplines. I think a bunch of q calls in the women's event and maybe one < because it was so obvious, and then looking the other way all day with the men until Shaidorov which makes no sense to me.

I cannot stand how a skater's score is dependent on whether the panel wants to call what actually happens. I am so tired of hearing that they don't have the resources to see. They are saying they clearly saw an exact 90 degree short landing on all those other calls, so give me a break with that. Otherwise they cannot call the q. Ad nauseam, it needs to just go away.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Daniel was a revelation. Y’all are cray.

 

[Karen-W]

Okay - here are my thoughts having finally had a chance to watch the Men's SP this afternoon...

Peng – nice comeback after the initial fall on the planned combo; this crowd really gets into spins – good or bad, lol; hmmmm – he really could have been skating to anything.

Dai – ugh… this guy could be a real force if he could get his jumps consistent but today was not that day; just love his style.

Jin – oh, we have good Jin today who’s landing stuff while skating to a generic male ballad, but I guess if that gets the job done… Oh, nice Russian split jump in the step sequence.

Nice to see more of a crowd show up for the later sessions.

Hiwatashi – Hmmm… So, he lost levels on the spins? Ouch. This was about as great as we ever get from Tomoki and on par with his Challenger SPs so it’s really too bad he missed those spin levels.

Litvintsev – that’s such a pathetic, little man-bun – he should just get his hair cut; pitching forward on all these jump landings but this is a generous panel so probably nothing will get called; what is this creepy, dark music – all it needs is a “bwahahaha” added to the voiceovers.

Grassl – sketchy 4z+3t, Chris tells us what a cracker the 4lo was though! Oh dear… I never want to see Daniel trying to be sexy in a tango again, this is just all sorts of awkward.

Sanchez – shades of pink with whickety-whack hanging off his arms – this shirt needs to be tossed; ugh – down on the combo – the program was going so well up to that point despite this shirt; ah well, he’s young and he’s one to watch for the next Olympic cycle.

Cha – oh man… this is a disaster; listen here, Junhwan – you didn’t win Asian Games and get your military exemption just to not make the Olympic team this year, get it together! Especially since I see the vision with this SP – skated clean it will be brillant.

Vasiljevs – going coachless at this point in the season definitely has not paid any dividends, though this is Deniss and he’s never been a model of consistency; could be a great program but I have little confidence he will ever skate it clean.

Yamamoto – hmmmm… So, apparently the back strain from Trialeti is all better because he’s landing his jumps; he’s trying to make a case for that wide-open 3rd Japanese men’s Olympic spot and I suppose he’s as good a choice as any of the other men they’ve got fighting for it at this point.

Sato – well, this was lovely, if a rather bland repeat; he’s making a strong case for that 2nd Japanese men’s Oly spot to have his name engraved on it before J-Nats.

Shaidorov – this kid and his odd musical mashups, lol; great jumps but that spin right after the 4T was weak; hmmmm… Not sure I agree with that score – the lower spin levels shouldn’t have dropped his points that much and he was definitely better & more enjoyable than Grassl.

Tomorrow’s FS should be interesting – let’s see if Shaidorov can pull up or not.

 

[Matryeshka]

Finally watching the shorts, and here's my mildly lukewarm takes:
Peng allowed me to get a much needed second cup of coffee and let the dogs out.

Dai is still my favorite of the Chinese men, but he's not making the case for his Oly spot.

I'm a bit different from most of FSU, I really enjoyed Jin today and if he keeps improving, I think this is a serviceable SP for him, better than a lot of his programs. But Dai, still pulling for you.

If I were a judge for the USFS, Hiwatashi isn't making the case for the third spot, but I wouldn't be throwing it out either. It's really, truly up for grabs and the final two groups of men at US Nationals is going to be a bloodbath. I predict Euros levels of mess and a lot will depend on the leniency of the panel.

I see you Litvintsev--I too have that hair on Wednesday afternoon after seeing my two most frustrating classes back to back and then have to work a 4-9:30 shift at Starbux. I FEEL SEEN, MY FOREVER NUTCRACKER PRINCE.

I enjoyed Grassl's SP more than last year, but that's not saying much. I hope the other Italian men get it together.

Sanchez, I just don't see it. I'm sorry. For me, he's just missing...something, and I feel he's destined to be a placeholder. He doesn't have the jumps of Malinin, the quality of Brown, or the excitement (good and bad) of the Pizza King. If he proves me wrong, great, but if he just fades away, I won't remember him at all two years for now. Also, who skates to pink to Umbrellas? What interpretation is this? Someone needs to sit him down and make him watch V/M's absolute masterpiece to this over and over and over again till he gets it.

cues Do You Really Want to Hurt Me cause that's what I hear every time Cha skates. WHY CHA WHYYYYYY. This is why I can't stan men's. They disappoint me so.

Deniss. I enjoy Deniss but expect nothing from him. Having Cha and Deniss back to back is just China trolling us. Though imagine if they had both gone clean--it would have been AMAZING.

I don't understand Yamamoto's scores in relation to other skaters. While Michael Bolton's cover is not the worst, I'm not sure it's the best for Yamamoto's skating. I LOVE the idea of him doing this song, I just think he needs a softer, more bittersweet rendering.

Shun Sato, lovely as always. I hope he makes the men's team, but I'm not as invested in Japanese men after Shoma's retirement.

I feel like Shaidarov got the UR because they couldn't give him one on that sad, sad cartwheel.

What a bizarre event. I don't normally comment on skating scores outside of ice dance and occasionally pairs, but if I have thoughts, then YOU KNOW it's bad. I don't mind a lenient panel as long as it's consistent across the board lenient. Since I'm not a technician, it's the placement that matters to me--as long as the placements are right, I don't care if they don't catch every edge, rotation, etc. I feel like there were two different 1-3s that could be justified by either components or tech, and this 1-3 was neither of those. I mean, if Chris and I are calling you out on judging, you know it's bad.