2024-25 ISU Grand Prix Assignments & projected alternates

[Karen-W]

As expected, Janse van Rensburg/Steffan have been added to SkAm, and Dupayage/Nabais have been added to NHK.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33868-ice-dance-4/file

And the GP Alternates List has also been updated.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/series-files-64/34305-gp-alternate-list-2024-25/file

ETA -

1) the Women’s list still includes Estonian Jr skaters Elina Goidina & Maria Eliise Kaljuvere despite both having competed on the JGP.

2) same with Pairs - still includes Holichenko/Darenskiy despite having competed on the JGP.

3) Morozov/Chen have not been added to the Ice Dance list despite medaling at Lombardia, so it would seem that only gold medalists are being added in Women, Men & Ice Dance, but all three medalists at any Challenger will bump up thr list with a new, improved SB - as expected both Gutmann in Women’s and Fabbri/Ayer in Ice Dance were bumped up based on their Denis Ten Memorial scores, and Lin-Gracey jumped ahead of Everhardt based on her Nebelhorn score.

 

[Sylvia]

As expected, Janse van Rensburg/Steffan have been added to SkAm

Posted in their team account's Insta story today [following their WD from Denis Ten Memorial]: "Feeling relieved as Benni is on the road to recovery! The MRI results show a strong bruise and a sprained ligament in his knee -- no serious injury."

ETA - follow-up story: "We better get back to work ... See you soon Allen, Texas"

 

[tangerine dream]

As expected, Janse van Rensburg/Steffan have been added to SkAm, and Dupayage/Nabais have been added to NHK.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33868-ice-dance-4/file

And the GP Alternates List has also been updated.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/series-files-64/34305-gp-alternate-list-2024-25/file

ETA -

1) the Women’s list still includes Estonian Jr skaters Elina Goidina & Maria Eliise Kaljuvere despite both having competed on the JGP.

2) same with Pairs - still includes Holichenko/Darenskiy despite having competed on the JGP.

3) Morozov/Chen have not been added to the Ice Dance list despite medaling at Lombardia, so it would seem that only gold medalists are being added in Women, Men & Ice Dance, but all three medalists at any Challenger will bump up thr list with a new, improved SB - as expected both Gutmann in Women’s and Fabbri/Ayer in Ice Dance were bumped up based on their Denis Ten Memorial scores, and Lin-Gracey jumped ahead of Everhardt based on her Nebelhorn score.

So in order to move up the list, a skater has to have been on the Top 75 SB list from last season and medal at a Challenger with a higher score than their SB from last season? But if a skater improved their SB from last season but didn't medal, their SB score stays the same? And if a skater medals but wasn't on the SB list last season, they don't get added? These rules are so arbitrary.

And not only did Goidina & Kaljuvere compete on the JGP, they're not even old enough for senior events!

 

[Karen-W]

So in order to move up the list, a skater has to have been on the Top 75 SB list from last season and medal at a Challenger with a higher score than their SB from last season?

For Men, Women & Ice Dance - Yes; For Pairs - any improved score, medal or not, moves them up the list.

But if a skater improved their SB from last season but didn't medal, their SB score stays the same?

For Men, Women & Ice Dance - Yes; For Pairs - any improved score, medal or not, moves them up the list.
And if a skater medals but wasn't on the SB list last season, they don't get added? These rules are so arbitrary.

And if a skater medals but wasn't on the SB list last season, they don't get added? These rules are so arbitrary.

For Men, Women & Ice Dance - Yes; For Pairs - all teams who meet the GP Minimum Total Score requirement are added to the Alternates List

And not only did Goiding & Kaljuvere compete on the JGP, they're not even old enough for senior events!

Yeahhhhh... Hopefully the GP Alternates List won't get down that far, lol.

 

[kwanfan1818]

And if a skater medals but wasn't on the SB list last season, they don't get added? These rules are so arbitrary.

That prevents strong singles skaters and Ice Dance teams who take seasons off, who were ineligible the prior season, or who are newly formed from coming in the current season and medalling in a CS and going to the top of the Alternates list. (Assuming they don't qualify for the Comeback clause, have already used their one-time option, or want to preserve it.)

It might be ill-advised or unfair, and it's certainly unequal in the way it treats Pairs, but it's not necessarily arbitrary.

 

[Karen-W]

Personally, what I think is a lot more unfair is guaranteeing Pairs & Dance Teams in the SB or WS Top 24 from the previous season 1 GP spot. There are less spots overall in both of those disciplines than there are in the Singles disciplines. I'd change it so that SB/WS Top 20 for Ice Dance are guaranteed 1 GP, and SB/WS Top 16 for Pairs are guaranteed 1 GP - that would align what happens in the Singles disciplines with the SB/WS Top 24 being twice the number of spots available in any single GP. I'd also probably reduce the Worlds results guaranteeing 2 GPs to Top 8 for Pairs. There are a lot of teams that get shut out of ANY GPs right now in both Pairs & Ice Dance because of the # of GP spots that are already guaranteed and get allocated first.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

For Men, Women & Ice Dance - Yes; For Pairs - any improved score, medal or not, moves them up the list.
And if a skater medals but wasn't on the SB list last season, they don't get added? These rules are so arbitrary.

What if a skater almost medals, had pasta for dinner and stopped by Starbucks on their way to the rink? Do they get added higher?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Only if the latte is not Pumpkin-Spiced.

 

[farahfan]

Personally, what I think is a lot more unfair is guaranteeing Pairs & Dance Teams in the SB or WS Top 24 from the previous season 1 GP spot. There are less spots overall in both of those disciplines than there are in the Singles disciplines. I'd change it so that SB/WS Top 20 for Ice Dance are guaranteed 1 GP, and SB/WS Top 16 for Pairs are guaranteed 1 GP - that would align what happens in the Singles disciplines with the SB/WS Top 24 being twice the number of spots available in any single GP. I'd also probably reduce the Worlds results guaranteeing 2 GPs to Top 8 for Pairs. There are a lot of teams that get shut out of ANY GPs right now in both Pairs & Ice Dance because of the # of GP spots that are already guaranteed and get allocated first.

What's odd to me is that skaters recovering from injury and/or clearly not at their best are already guaranteed GP spots. But they did earn it, and it's up to them to evaluate their injury or mental health situations. Is there some advantage to competing in a GP when you won't get the scores that got you in?

This will be the first season I sit down and watch all of the Grand Prix (on Youtube of course), so looking forward to it!

 

[Karen-W]

What's odd to me is that skaters recovering from injury and/or clearly not at their best are already guaranteed GP spots. But they did earn it, and it's up to them to evaluate their injury or mental health situations. Is there some advantage to competing in a GP when you won't get the scores that got you in?

This will be the first season I sit down and watch all of the Grand Prix (on Youtube of course), so looking forward to it!

I don't have a problem with skaters utilizing the GP spots they earned. I get more annoyed with skaters who aren't ready or dealing with an injury who wait until the week of their GP to WD and then the host fed is off the hook for replacing them and spots go unused - especially for ice dancers & pairs teams since those spots aren't easy to come by.

 

[Belsornia]

For Men, Women & Ice Dance - Yes; For Pairs - any improved score, medal or not, moves them up the list.

Ice dance appears to be a halfway house: Lagouge/Caffa, Yoshida/Morita, Ignateva/Szemko, Matthaei/Leibers, Reitan/Majorov, Dozzi/Papetti and Terreaux/Perron are all included in the latest version of the alternates list with their scores from the early Challengers. But Morozov/Chen have not been added (nor any of the teams who didn't medal but reached the minimum score). And Simova/Aksenov and Larson/Kapran do not have their new PBs from Nebelhorn and the Denis Ten Memorial reflected in the latest list.

Of course, none of these teams are likely to pick up a GP spot so it's largely theoretical.

 

[Karen-W]

Ice dance appears to be a halfway house: Lagouge/Caffa, Yoshida/Morita, Ignateva/Szemko, Matthaei/Leibers, Reitan/Majorov, Dozzi/Papetti and Terreaux/Perron are all included in the latest version of the alternates list with their scores from the early Challengers. But Morozov/Chen have not been added (nor any of the teams who didn't medal but reached the minimum score). And Simova/Aksenov and Larson/Kapran do not have their new PBs from Nebelhorn and the Denis Ten Memorial reflected in the latest list.

Of course, none of these teams are likely to pick up a GP spot so it's largely theoretical.

So, that made me curious and I went back and checked over the Men's & Women's lists - we knew that Gutmann was moving up due to her Denis Ten Mem score and she did. None of the other women on the SB Top 75 list (or Stepcenko, who is on the GP Alternates list by virtue of her WS Top 24) have improved their scores since last season, so the Women's Alternates list is what we expected.

For the Men, though, they've updated Sadovsky's score from Nebelhorn - which did not change his position on the Alternates list, lol. They also updated Daniliants' score from Denis Ten Mem & Appleby's score from Nebelhorn, and they've both made a jump up the GP Alternates list.

As you state, it's largely theoretical for these skaters/teams further down the Alternates lists, but it's an interesting change that does place some added importance on showing up prepared for the early Challengers and jumping up to the top of the GP Alternates list with a really successful outing.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Back when they were generally ignoring their own rules, officially there were five or six, depending on the year, selected early events that would qualify winners to go to the bottom of the alternates list. I think this ended up working out rarely, and possibly only once, in 2012 when Scimeca/Knierim unexpectedly beat Stolbova/Klimov at Coupe de Nice, and, because the Pairs field was so thin, with only 40-something Pairs having the minimums, they ended up with GP invite as replacements.

 

[skateblessing]

Nella Pelkonen is not listed on the Feds webpage anymore for GP Canada. Probably there will be official WD soon. Yesterday there was an article mentioning that Nella has been struggling during the off season with pain in her legs, she has signs of stress fracture in both legs. Because of that she has not been training much, and that they were not sure if she would be able to go to Canada. She is still listed for GP Finland so they are probably hoping she can be ready for that.

Basically this means Elyce will now get her 2. spot.

 

[Karen-W]

Nella Pelkonen is not listed on the Feds webpage anymore for GP Canada. Probably there will be official WD soon. Yesterday there was an article mentioning that Nella has been struggling during the off season with pain in her legs, she has signs of stress fracture in both legs. Because of that she has not been training much, and that they were not sure if she would be able to go to Canada. She is still listed for GP Finland so they are probably hoping she can be ready for that.

Basically this means Elyce will not get her 2. spot.

Fixed that for you. Yes, Elyce will get a second assignment.

If Nella does wind up WD from Finlandia that will be a host spot and not go to the next person on the Alternates list.

 

[skateblessing]

Fixed that for you. Yes, Elyce will get a second assignment.

If Nella does wind up WD from Finlandia that will be a host spot and not go to the next person on the Alternates list.

Woops, should have been now not not Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Lutzes&Loops]

If Nella does wind up WD from Finlandia that will be a host spot and not go to the next person on the Alternates list.

So if there are withdrawals from the host spots, they go back to the host fed, not get released to the ISU?

 

[Karen-W]

So if there are withdrawals from the host spots, they go back to the host fed, not get released to the ISU?

Yes. The host fed can decide whether or not they want to assign one of their own skaters to the spot or they can select the next person on the GP Alternates list. Seeing as the Finnish fed has a few other senior women assigned to upcoming Challengers (Ounasvuori at Metropole Nice, Ceder at Nepela Memorial), I'd guess they'll hold onto it.

 

[Lutzes&Loops]

Yes. The host fed can decide whether or not they want to assign one of their own skaters to the spot or they can select the next person on the GP Alternates list. Seeing as the Finnish fed has a few other senior women assigned to upcoming Challengers (Ounasvuori at Metropole Nice, Ceder at Nepela Memorial), I'd guess they'll hold onto it.

I see, thank you.

 

[Lutzes&Loops]

Any word on other potential withdrawals for Women?

 

[Karen-W]

Any word on other potential withdrawals for Women?

Not yet. We just need to keep an eye on who has already competed in a Challenger and who hasn't to gain any insight into potential withdrawals.

 

[Karen-W]

Well... That was fast!

The ISU didn't even bother updating the GP chart to show Nella as WD - they just added Elyce today!

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33867-women-4/file

 

[Karen-W]

Annnndddd... Janse van Rensburg/Steffan are out of SkAm after all, replaced by Fabbri/Ayer.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33868-ice-dance-4/file

And Plazas/Fernandez are out of both NHK & CoC. Zhang/Jia are also out of CoC.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33866-pairs-5/file

Next up would be VLDigs and Chtchetinina/Wozniak (no GPs). If the JSF fills their spot first and leaves the CFSA to fill two spots then McBeath/Parkman would get one of the CoC spots.

 

[skateblessing]

Annnndddd... Janse van Rensburg/Steffan are out of SkAm after all, replaced by Fabbri/Ayer.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33868-ice-dance-4/file

And Plazas/Fernandez are out of both NHK & CoC. Zhang/Jia are also out of CoC.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33866-pairs-5/file

Next up would be VLDigs and Chtchetinina/Wozniak (no GPs). If the JSF fills their spot first and leaves the CFSA to fill two spots then McBeath/Parkman would get one of the CoC spots.

Hmm honestly I never thought R/S would be ready for Skam after WD from Denis Ten and Steffan had a sprained ligament in the knee and bruises, which sounded serious enough to me. Despite them saying they would start working towards Skam. Of course it´s not anything major, but it sounded like they should stay off training for a while so that he could heal his knee and not risk the ligament to tear. I really hope they didn´t go back to training to soon and made the injury worse, and that it was the reason they WD. They seem to not catch a break

I hope they are ready for NHK, but there is a chance they might not. So Harris/Chan could very well get a spot at NHK since US is maxed out in that event.

I´m curious if ISU will continue to update their alternates list with new scores from Challengers below top 3, which they have done with some teams now. That would mean that Ignateva/Szemko would move up behind Harris/Chan now and sneak in before the French team with a score of 174 in Budapest this week.

Gleb/Smolkin stated also they were unsure if they would be ready for Skam, and had to WD from Denis Ten.

And i´m curious if R/A is ready for GP, from social media Saulius seem to have been off the ice for weeks because of injury (I think he was walking around with a cast on his arm?). However they are scheduled to compete in Nice this week so will know soon.

 

[Karen-W]

Hmm honestly I never thought R/S would be ready for Skam after WD from Denis Ten and Steffan had a sprained ligament in the knee and bruises, which sounded serious enough to me. Despite them saying they would start working towards Skam. Of course it´s not anything major, but it sounded like they should stay off training for a while so that he could heal his knee and not risk the ligament to tear. I really hope they didn´t go back to training to soon and made the injury worse, and that it was the reason they WD. They seem to not catch a break

I hope they are ready for NHK, but there is a chance they might not. So Harris/Chan could very well get a spot at NHK since US is maxed out in that event.

I´m curious if ISU will continue to update their alternates list with new scores from Challengers below top 3, which they have done with some teams now. That would mean that Ignateva/Szemko would move up behind Harris/Chan now and sneak in before the French team with a score of 174 in Budapest this week.

Gleb/Smolkin stated also they were unsure if they would be ready for Skam, and had to WD from Denis Ten.

And i´m curious if R/A is ready for GP, from social media Saulius seem to have been off the ice for weeks because of injury this (I think he was walking around with a cast on his arm?). However they are scheduled to compete in Nice this week so will know soon.

Well, if DavSmo do wind up WD from SkAm this week then HarChan would get that spot - and I'm sure IAM would make it happen for them.

I'm not sure how often the ISU is updating the GP Alternates list. We went a month between public updates, but there also weren't a LOT of GP withdrawals happening. I do think it's possible we could see the GP Alternates list updated again more frequently - we'll have to wait and see what happens if some of these potential withdrawals happen.

ReedAmbru are still on the Trophee Metropole Nice entries list that was updated today - if they show up for that then I'd guess they'll be on the GP.

Tanaka/Nishiyama have also been MIA from the early season Challengers - and they WD from one of the September comps after also WDing from the Quebec Summer Championships in August due to injury.

Honestly, I have my doubts about a LOT of teams - GreenP are, like ReedAmbru, still on the Metropole Nice entries list; who knows what kind of shape LajLag are in, same with Les Gacs who haven't been seen since Lake Placid.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Annnndddd... Janse van Rensburg/Steffan are out of SkAm after all, replaced by Fabbri/Ayer.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33868-ice-dance-4/file

And Plazas/Fernandez are out of both NHK & CoC. Zhang/Jia are also out of CoC.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2024-25/grand-prix-5/entries-9/33866-pairs-5/file

Next up would be VLDigs and Chtchetinina/Wozniak (no GPs). If the JSF fills their spot first and leaves the CFSA to fill two spots then McBeath/Parkman would get one of the CoC spots.

Can’t you ease us into this this morning?

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Can’t you ease us into this this morning?

Auniie ANL sounds a bit hung this morning - should Patrick bring you coffee and a sidecar?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Auniie ANL sounds a bit hung this morning - should Patrick bring you coffee and a sidecar?

Yes, yes yes please could you also bring me a PSL this morning? I wouldn’t mind one of those.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Yes, yes yes please could you also bring me a PSL this morning? I wouldn’t mind one of those.

My name is not Patrick - you'd better FAX Ito.

 

[Karen-W]

Can’t you ease us into this this morning?

Tell me about it!

On the plus side... The pairs field has the potential to be decimated even more in coming weeks and your MarBed are only 5 more withdrawals away from getting a GP invite.