2023-24 US Pairs Discussion - Chan you count Howe many teams we have?

[Karen-W]

Oh no..............................no..........no...

Eh... 1) They're also assigned to Finlandia in a few weeks, 2) they have a bye to Nats, 3) her triples are suspect, which makes me question their longterm potential.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Long term potential? hmm depends on someone's definition of long term I think. If the goal is to reach the Olympics, I don't consider two and half years to be that long. But if your point is that one partner is so so on the triples, well Danny's previous partners were not known for their technical proficiency, so Ellie must have some other strengths that balances out that weakness.
Anyway we shall see how much more Kam/O'Shea progress in the future. Time always tells.

 

[Sylvia]

Ellie Kam was landing 2A, 3S & 3T consistently when she was one of the top Novice level skaters in the U.S. 2 years ago. Landing the jumps side-by-side as part of a pair team can take time for some more than others who are new(er) to the discipline.

 

[moonvine]

Eh... 1) They're also assigned to Finlandia in a few weeks, 2) they have a bye to Nats, 3) her triples are suspect, which makes me question their longterm potential.

 

[Karen-W]

Ellie Kam was landing 2A, 3S & 3T consistently when she was one of the top Novice level skaters in the U.S. 2 years ago. Landing the jumps side-by-side as part of a pair team can take time for some more than others who are new(er) to the discipline.

The thing is, she isn't THAT new to the discipline. She was partnered with Ian Meyh - though they didn't compete much and their partnership was derailed by his injury.

I just know that the tech panels were nailing her with q and < on her 3S pretty consistently at both 4CCs and Worlds, and I think that was something they got away with at IceChallenge and Golden Spin (not that we'll ever see any video footage from that event) in the fall, which gave them huge buzz and push heading into Nationals last year.

I want to see how they look now that they've been together a year, before I get on board the hype train.

 

[Sylvia]

I haven't gotten the impression that there's a "hype train" for K/O?

This pairs post was written over 10 years ago and I still remember the good points it raised:

A good partnership is not just about a size, skill, and style match: it's about work ethic, attitude, perseverance, collegiality, and so much else. Those factors are impossible to quantify and compare from competition performances or news articles, but the pair community is small and everyone knows pretty much everything about everyone else.

The singles elements in a pair program do not exist in isolation from pair element. The real challenge - what's really hard about stringing together elements into a program - is the necessity of dulling the cognitive processes and allowing muscle memory to take over. XXX doesn't have the muscle memory of the pair elements to be able to do them without thinking about what she needs to do, especially because they have changed the technique on the elements that they did last year, so her muscle memory was restarted. She does have the muscle memory to be able to do 3T/3S in her sleep, but I suspect that was her undoing: in a program where 11 of the elements are new to you, it's easy to either underestimate or overestimate what you need to put into the two jumps. I could still see her inexperience in pairs - the tracking is considerably better than at Nationals but still not all there - but I also saw considerable improvement in their elements. It's hard to both rework all elements and learning perfect tracking in one off-season.

 

[moonvine]

Eh... 1) They're also assigned to Finlandia in a few weeks, 2) they have a bye to Nats, 3) her triples are suspect, which makes me question their longterm potential.

I don't think her triples are suspect just because she is not currently doing them. As someone else said, she's certainly done so before.
I can't decide if Ellie and Danny or Ellie and Timmy are my favorite. I'll probably figure it out at Nationals when I find myself cheering (slightly) more for one than another.

I can say it's a really good time to be an American pairs skater named Ellie.

 

[moonvine]

I haven't gotten the impression that there's a "hype train" for K/O?

If there isn't a hype train it's not for lack of me trying. They are SO GOOD yall.

 

[Trillian]

I just know that the tech panels were nailing her with q and < on her 3S pretty consistently at both 4CCs and Worlds, and I think that was something they got away with at IceChallenge and Golden Spin (not that we'll ever see any video footage from that event) in the fall, which gave them huge buzz and push heading into Nationals last year.

Compared to all the other powerhouse jumpers in U.S. pairs skating? None of the top teams right now are relying on SBS jumps as a high-scoring element, they just need to be solid enough not to completely tank them. Nobody in U.S. pairs skating is losing sleep over a 3S that might get dinged on the rotation sometimes, and frankly, there are a lot of other skaters who’d probably be thrilled with that kind of success rate.

I want to see how they look now that they've been together a year, before I get on board the hype train.

I haven’t seen any real hype for these two. The general take seems to be “maybe Danny can finally make an Olympic team and hopefully Ellie can find a more age-appropriate partner afterwards,” which seems to be a level of optimism that’s pretty commensurate with their actual performances. If there’s an “omg future Olympic champions!1!1!!” dialogue around them, I haven’t noticed, personally.

 

[moonvine]

Compared to all the other powerhouse jumpers in U.S. pairs skating? None of the top teams right now are relying on SBS jumps as a high-scoring element, they just need to be solid enough not to completely tank them. Nobody in U.S. pairs skating is losing sleep over a 3S that might get dinged on the rotation sometimes, and frankly, there are a lot of other skaters who’d probably be thrilled with that kind of success rate.



I haven’t seen any real hype for these two. The general take seems to be “maybe Danny can finally make an Olympic team and hopefully Ellie can find a more age-appropriate partner afterwards,” which seems to be a level of optimism that’s pretty commensurate with their actual performances. If there’s an “omg future Olympic champions!1!1!!” dialogue around them, I haven’t noticed, personally.

I guess I'm driving the train quietly. Choo-choo!

 

[Rukia]

I guess I'm driving the train quietly. Choo-choo!

One minute you're quietly driving the train and the next you're taking notes on a hour-long podcast for your internet friends. Enjoy cheering for your faves, it's way more fun that way.

 

[Karen-W]

Reagan Moss & Jakub Galbavy have created an IG team profile - https://instagram.com/reaganandjakub?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

[marshallpond]

Watched the practice of O'Shea and Kam in Broadmoor today. Kam did not land a single triple throw in their several attempts. They repeated and repeated it again and she couldn't land it. One of the coaches made her do it in the harness. It feels like she jumps, rotates, and makes no effort to land; she just crumbles.

But O'Shea is a joy to watch; simply amazing. Just on a totally different level. Their team though has speed and looks so powerful (well O'Shea looks powerful).

 

[Sylvia]

Fan Zone article on Maria Mokhova/Ivan Mokhov before they compete later this week at Nebelhorn Trophy:

Maria Mokhova and Ivan Mokhov: Athletes, Siblings and Friends - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Maria Mokhova and Ivan Mokhov were practically skating before they walked. With parents like Andrey Mokhov and Oksana Yakusheva, skating is part of the whole family's

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

Looking forward to their sophomore international season, the Mokhovs are bringing back their "Benise-Malaguena" short program paired with a new free skate to music from My Fair Lady. The new Waltzy tunes from the musical will contrast the high energy from their short program.
"We really liked this music (from My Fair Lady) and we thought it worked well with our skating style," Mokhov said. "We always try to skate to really positive programs. We want the audience to have a positive attitude and feel joy when they watch us. Good vibes are the goal. I think this program has a lot of contrast throughout with different paces and moods."
"We really enjoy skating for the audience," Mokhova said. "We want the audience to enjoy the program and come along the journey with us. I hope they will embrace the story we are telling with this program."

"Their younger brother Mikhail is also an up-and-coming singles skater" - Mikhail Mokhov currently has the highest Intermediate men's NQS total score.

 

[moonvine]

Watched the practice of O'Shea and Kam in Broadmoor today. Kam did not land a single triple throw in their several attempts. They repeated and repeated it again and she couldn't land it. One of the coaches made her do it in the harness. It feels like she jumps, rotates, and makes no effort to land; she just crumbles.

But O'Shea is a joy to watch; simply amazing. Just on a totally different level. Their team though has speed and looks so powerful (well O'Shea looks powerful).

He is a joy to watch because he is joyous (well, for me anyway) I don't think I've ever seen another skater just radiating the joy of skating like he does. And that's why I'm driving the train. That smile!

 

[acraven]

It's probably worth mentioning for new fans that Danny was the national novice (important word omitted there!) singles champion, with notably good skating skills. I'm very glad he was interested in switching to pairs when he grew a bit tall for singles.

 

[Karen-W]

Just had a thought occur to me in the past hour... Williams/Lewer were, obviously, set to compete on the JGP, however they ARE age-eligible for senior international competition. Something to ponder...

 

[marshallpond]

One new junior pairs team that will be making their competition debut in the NQS in Boston is Jared McPike and his new partner (forgot her name). Jared was the former partner of Jolena Grohne, who now skates with Reede Lunt.

So far, 4 junior pair teams are set to compete in Boston. 13 junior pairs teams signed up for the NQS series but 3 teams have yet to surface. One of that will be the new team of Jared.

Jared is in Colorado but competing singles novice men. He trains pairs in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

 

[marshallpond]

He is a joy to watch because he is joyous (well, for me anyway) I don't think I've ever seen another skater just radiating the joy of skating like he does. And that's why I'm driving the train. That smile!

And despite his accomplishments and talent, Danny seems like a nice guy. He was chatting up non-WASA pair teams that he did not know and welcoming them to Colorado. When Danny and Ellie skated, the rest on the practice ice session go to the boards because they are fast and Danny's arms are just so wide LOL

 

[ice coverage]

... I've added Grohne/Lunt to this group because it seems pretty likely they're not competing up a level next week at Broadmoor and would be more likely to compete Novice. ...

Grohne/Lunt are listed in Novice Pairs starting order for Broadmoor Fall Classic, so your prediction was correct.

They are among the three Novice Pairs making NQS debut at Broadmoor.
Plus Kovar/Apter are back for another NQS event.

 

[Karen-W]

Grohne/Lunt are listed in Novice Pairs starting order for Broadmoor Fall Classic, so your prediction was correct.

They are among the three Novice Pairs making NQS debut at Broadmoor.
Plus Kovar/Apter are back for another NQS event.

Glad to hear we have more Novice Pairs debuting! We need to rebuild depth at the lower levels so that it trickles up to the junior and senior levels in the coming years.

 

[Karen-W]

4 Novice teams - here are the known Novice teams - I've added Grohne/Lunt to this group because it seems pretty likely they're not competing up a level next week at Broadmoor and would be more likely to compete Novice. Guessing on the other 3 Novice teams - seems like the two PNW teams (Finkelstein/Williams and Lu/Lu) plus Kovar/Apter would be the most likely, but Tanner/Herbert could be traveling too.

Novice teams
Clara Finkelstein/Mark Williams 91.88 (Golden West), 78.43 (Glacier Falls)
Jolena Grohne/Reede Lunt (89.42 at non-NQS Cup of Colorado in Novice)
Milada Kovar/Nickolai Apter 93.24 (Golden West)
Joyce Lu/Wyatt Lu 88.22 (Golden West)
Taisiya Shapovalova/Sebastian Malczyk 98.00 (Golden West), 93.59 (Glacier Falls) (his older brother, Damian, has been assigned to represent Czechia in men at JGP #5 Budapest & JGP #6 Gdandsk)
Tallulah Tanner/Sam Herbert 88.95 (Battle of the Blades)
Tyler VanWagner/Patrick VanWagner 37.14 (Middle Atlantics)

There's a team in Oakton that is supposed to be in novice, but they haven't surfaced yet. Am wondering if they'd compete this year. I think they are Michael Chappa/Baylen Taich

Park Ridge, Illinois - Figure Skating on Instagram: "B&M tried their first double twist this week! 👏"

oakton_edge_skatingacademy on July 1, 2023: "B&M tried their first double twist this week! 👏"

www.instagram.com

Park Ridge, Illinois - Figure Skating on Instagram: "Learning new skills can be discouraging at times, but once you get it there’s no better feeling! This is our happy place!⛸️🙌"

oakton_edge_skatingacademy on May 30, 2023: "Learning new skills can be discouraging at times, but once you get it there’s no better feeling..."

www.instagram.com

As noted by @ice coverage - Grohne/Lunt are competing in Novice Pairs this week at Broadmoor Fall Classic.

And, as predicted by @marshallpond, Oakton novice team of Taich/Chappa are making their debut this weekend as well.

The other new Novice pairs team competing this weekend is Anna Krasnopeeva/Mitchell Castelletti, both out of the Starlight Ice Dance Club - she competed last year in Intermediate Pairs with Nickolai Apter and finished 4th at the US Pairs Final.

 

[Karen-W]

One new junior pairs team that will be making their competition debut in the NQS in Boston is Jared McPike and his new partner (forgot her name). Jared was the former partner of Jolena Grohne, who now skates with Reede Lunt.

So far, 4 junior pair teams are set to compete in Boston. 13 junior pairs teams signed up for the NQS series but 3 teams have yet to surface. One of that will be the new team of Jared.

Jared is in Colorado but competing singles novice men. He trains pairs in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Hmmmm... Cayla Smith is based in Fort Wayne. I haven't seen anything on her IG to indicate she has a new pairs partner, but I'll be excited whenever she does resurface with a new partner.

 

[moonvine]

And despite his accomplishments and talent, Danny seems like a nice guy. He was chatting up non-WASA pair teams that he did not know and welcoming them to Colorado. When Danny and Ellie skated, the rest on the practice ice session go to the boards because they are fast and Danny's arms are just so wide LOL

His dad is VERY nice. Have a funny story about meeting him at Cranberry Cup. I think the apple doesn't fall from the tree.

 

[marshallpond]

Hmmmm... Cayla Smith is based in Fort Wayne. I haven't seen anything on her IG to indicate she has a new pairs partner, but I'll be excited whenever she does resurface with a new partner.

I will check and confirm today if I see Jared.

I know that there's only 1 team that qualifies for the Junior Olympics and that is the team of Cayla and whoever is her partner. But they haven't surfaced yet in the NQS, so I am not sure if you need to have NQS scores to be allowed to go to the Junior Olympics

Taich/Chappa novice pairs team just need this Colorado competition to get into the sectionals. Chappa had a concussion and was away for 3 weeks to recover so that severely hampered their training. THey are also registered to compete in Boston but I think Chappa is also registered to do Texas to do his singles

 

[Oldfun]

I will check and confirm today if I see Jared.

I know that there's only 1 team that qualifies for the Junior Olympics and that is the team of Cayla and whoever is her partner. But they haven't surfaced yet in the NQS, so I am not sure if you need to have NQS scores to be allowed to go to the Junior Olympics

Taich/Chappa novice pairs team just need this Colorado competition to get into the sectionals. Chappa had a concussion and was away for 3 weeks to recover so that severely hampered their training. THey are also registered to compete in Boston but I think Chappa is also registered to do Texas to do his single.

Yes, they are team together

 

[Karen-W]

Yes, they are team together

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that Cayla has a new partner! I doubt we'll get any streaming from the Boston Open since SCoB used the pathetic "music rights" excuse to not stream Cranberry Cup/Open last month, so we'll have to wait until the US Pairs Final to see how Smith/McPike look together.

 

[BrightSkates]

USFS Technical Notification No. 298

Dated: Aug. 31, 2023
Re: Qualifying for the 2024 Prevagen U.S. Figure Skating Championships –
Minimum Total Element Score (TES)
Per rule 2505*, competitors who qualify for the senior events at the U.S. Figure Skating
Championships must also have met a minimum total element score (TES) at one of the
following competitions in the same season:
• Any National Qualifying Series (NQS) event
• A Sectional Singles Final
• The U.S. Pairs Final
• The U.S. Ice Dance Final
• Any ISU competition
*Additional information regarding Athlete Bye and Advancement Criteria can be viewed
here.
Athletes/teams must earn the minimum TES in both the short program/rhythm dance
and the free skate/free dance, but do not need to earn them at the same competition.
For the 2023-24 season, the minimum TES are:
• Pairs
o Short Program: 23.00
o Free Skate: 41.00

 

[Karen-W]

USFS Technical Notification No. 298

Dated: Aug. 31, 2023
Re: Qualifying for the 2024 Prevagen U.S. Figure Skating Championships –
Minimum Total Element Score (TES)
Per rule 2505*, competitors who qualify for the senior events at the U.S. Figure Skating
Championships must also have met a minimum total element score (TES) at one of the
following competitions in the same season:
• Any National Qualifying Series (NQS) event
• A Sectional Singles Final
• The U.S. Pairs Final
• The U.S. Ice Dance Final
• Any ISU competition
*Additional information regarding Athlete Bye and Advancement Criteria can be viewed
here.
Athletes/teams must earn the minimum TES in both the short program/rhythm dance
and the free skate/free dance, but do not need to earn them at the same competition.
For the 2023-24 season, the minimum TES are:
• Pairs
o Short Program: 23.00
o Free Skate: 41.00

all of the senior teams who have competed so far this year have achieved the TES mins for Nationals.

 

[marshallpond]

Watched the official practice ice this morning and Sadusky/Digerness were looking so good.