2022 Olympic Qualifying Changes?

Maybe Jackie Wong will start realizing that some of his sources don’t know how to read, and that reporting what they say as fact is problematic, and that he should be doing actual analysis and questioning of what he’s being told so as not to cause unnecessary consternation for the athletes affected.
 
I hope this week makes some of skating Twitter reconsider Jackie Wong's "expertise." He wrote yesterday that GER would qualify a men's spot to the Olympics to round out 24 skaters, when Fentz didn't make the free. That's not even a rule change: the spots always stop at 24th in the FS.

Regarding the "provisional spot," there is no such thing and never has been. It's not referred to anywhere in the document, and the process of allocating the spots is entirely unambiguous as long as you read the document. Which Jackie doesn't care to, apparently.

Anyway, notes from the ISU Congress where the procedure was submitted make their intention clear: https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/status/1375986783603859456
 
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ISR has a Men's spot. Whether Grandpa Bychenko is going is up to Papa Boris, no?

ETA: In the last line of the tweet describing the ISU reasoning, was the explicit understanding that by extending the number of members who qualify at Worlds, they also extend the number of nations whose judges can be included in the judges draw for the OWG. The Special Regs Rule 402 states that "13 Judges shall be drawn from those ISU members which have Skaters qualified for the Olympic Winter Games according to the results of the World Championships of the preceding year in the discipline concerned."
 
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I didn't realize there was such a...quiet anger towards Wong. I get he needs correcting, but some people seem angry with him beyond that.

I think his reporting was pretty irresponsible. He continued to post updates that implied the qualification was clearly one thing even when at a minimum, there was an alternate interpretation. It appeared that he wouldn’t take the time to read the ISU document. I understand that he was short of sleep from providing reporting on practices, but if that’s the case, he should have taken down the Olympic qualifiers. I know of at least one reporter who had something published but took it down because they couldn’t be certain it was right.

I’ve mostly been neutral on Jackie, but I found this disappointing. I also think that some of his Twitter behaviour can be a little immature and petty.
 
I'm totally out of the loop with skating twitter and skating fandom outside of FSU, so if has indeed been doing that AND he's started getting some sort of attitude based on his now sort of famous status within the community, then he's really changed since when he was just a guy volunteering his time to report on events.
 
Bychenko apparently said at Worlds that his result will not automatically earn him the spot so he is heading to Nebelhorn to fight for it 😄.
I talked to Bychenko after he was saying this to insist to him that he has the spot for Israel and there is no need to do further qualifying. This goes back to the journalists being told the wrong info and/or citing Jackie as their source.

The two pairs involved in the mess are both now openly sharing that they have the Olympic spots. I don't know why the ISU would hold off in just saying, even behind closed doors, that those skaters in other disciplines also have made it.
 
I'm totally out of the loop with skating twitter and skating fandom outside of FSU, so if has indeed been doing that AND he's started getting some sort of attitude based on his now sort of famous status within the community, then he's really changed since when he was just a guy volunteering his time to report on events.
Jackie is still a really nice guy. I think it was the absolute insistence that he was right until he wasn't and then the people giving the correct information were the ones confusing things was what people found disappointing.
 
Hungarian federation's article (March 26):
We have the Olympic quota! He skated the freestyle of his life and improved four places in his first 14th joint world championship in Chtchetinina Ioulia and Márk Magyar in the field of pair figure skaters, so according to the first calculations, the Olympic dream can come true.
...
And the individual best really came at the best time, as they fought one of the 16 quotas available in Stockholm.
“According to the calculations of us and the experts here, the 15th quota belongs to Ioulia and Márke, which we are very happy about, but I have to state: we are waiting for its official confirmation,” said dr. Vardanjan Gurgen, sports director of the figure skating federation.
ETA:
I don't know why the ISU would hold off in just saying, even behind closed doors, that those skaters in other disciplines also have made it.
From the QUALIFICATION TIMELINE on page 7:
"Inform By 11 April 2021 First list of NOCs having earned quotas from the ISU World Figure Skating Championships"

It really s*cks that the publication of the official document is so delayed!:mad: I agree that the ISU should have informed all the skaters & federations "even behind closed doors" by now.
 
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I think maybe you guys should be blaming the ISU for this, not Jackie. They were the ones who wrote a rule that’s clear as mud.

I listened to several of Jackie’s Instagram lives and as I recall he said the rules were unclear, that because he wasn’t on site he wasn’t able to verify with the ISU directly, that he was repeating information he had received from people who had consulted directly with the ISU, but that we’d have to wait for the ISU to clarify. It’s too bad if people took his words as authoritative but it’s not really his fault.
 
I think maybe you guys should be blaming the ISU for this, not Jackie. They were the ones who wrote a rule that’s clear as mud.

I don't think the document containing the rule is that unclear. I read the document and think it does pretty clearly outline it. I think it could have been helped with examples, but the rule itself is clear. The lack of clarity is mainly because it is changing from the way it has been done before and because people who haven't read the document are spreading misinformation.

I also think it's really clear if you watched the ISU Congress from 2018 (available on YouTube) that the document as written is the way it is intended to work.

I do think that the ISU could have helped things by publishing each day who had earned the spots. If necessary with a caveat "subject to confirmation with the IOC."
 
I think maybe you guys should be blaming the ISU for this, not Jackie. They were the ones who wrote a rule that’s clear as mud.

I listened to several of Jackie’s Instagram lives and as I recall he said the rules were unclear, that because he wasn’t on site he wasn’t able to verify with the ISU directly, that he was repeating information he had received from people who had consulted directly with the ISU, but that we’d have to wait for the ISU to clarify. It’s too bad if people took his words as authoritative but it’s not really his fault.
Yes and no. I also was active during those Lives, Jackie even referenced something I said at one point. Outside of those chats, the problem was the Tweets and his page that highlighted those spots. Not until Brezina called him out did he go back and modify that there could be an alternate method. I've said all over this board that the ISU should've just added a little blurb to their competition wrap-up articles, since I was told Thursday night by a competitor that someone (or people) within the ISU, on site, had told him he had earned a spot and it was to be officially announced Monday. That didn't happen.

3. Twenty-four (24) entries for Ladies and Men, sixteen (16) entries for Pairs and nineteen (19) entries for Ice Dance will be determined according to the classification outlined in paragraph 2 above. ISU Members who have earned the necessary points according to Rule 378, paragraph 2b) and c) will have the right for two (2) or three (3) entries if, in addition, they had two (2), respectively three (3) Skaters/Pairs/Couples qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance in the World Senior Championships immediately preceding the OWG. The remaining entries under this paragraph 3 will be attributed to the ISU Members with the best placed and qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance Skaters at the World Senior Championships immediately preceding the OWG.

4. The remaining open entries available will be filled by ISU Members in order of their placements at a Senior International Competition designated by the ISU and conducted in the autumn of the calendar year immediately preceding the Olympic Winter Games. The open entries are available only to: a) ISU Members which have not previously earned an entry, for only one entry per such ISU Member. b) ISU Members which have earned the necessary points for two (2) or three (3) entries but did not have two (2) respectively three (3) Skaters qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance at the World Senior Championships immediately preceding the OWG. Such ISU Members are entitled to enter one Skater in the qualifying event who, however, cannot be a Skater that had qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance at the World Senior 30 Championships immediately preceding the OWG.
That's not clear as mud for me.
 
I talked to Bychenko after he was saying this to insist to him that he has the spot for Israel and there is no need to do further qualifying. This goes back to the journalists being told the wrong info and/or citing Jackie as their source.

The two pairs involved in the mess are both now openly sharing that they have the Olympic spots. I don't know why the ISU would hold off in just saying, even behind closed doors, that those skaters in other disciplines also have made it.
Yes, Bychenko knew he had earned a spot. What he was talking about was that it is not a given that HE will be the one who gets it given his result at Worlds. His comment seemed to indicate that the Israeli federation could/will hold a skate off at Nebelhorn.

And yes, I totally agree with you that the misinformation being posted is causing a lot of confusion.
 
Yes, Bychenko knew he had earned a spot. Was he was talking about was that it is not a given that HE will be the one who gets it given his result at Worlds. His comment seemed to indicate that the Israeli federation could/will hold a skate off at Nebelhorn.

And yes, I totally agree with you that the misinformation being posted by certain people is causing a lot of confusion.
No- having talked to Bychenko recently, he was 100% under the impression that his 24th place did not qualify Israel an Olympic spot at all because of the countries above him potentially earning additional spots. Nebelhorn typically does not (or hasn't in a long time) allow multiple skaters from a country to go to the event unless it's host Germany and they've already gotten an Olympic qualifier, so it would only be one Israeli there anyways.
 
@tony and @Erin, thanks for your replies. I’m glad both of you found the rule clear - but it kind of begs the question of why there was so much confusion that people were asking Jackie about it. Maybe he would have been wiser just to say he wasn’t sure and leave it at that, but to be honest he looked awfully sleep deprived to me so perhaps it’s not too surprising. In any case, I do think making sure people understand how rules are applied is the ISU’s responsibility.
 
Yes, Bychenko knew he had earned a spot. What he was talking about was that it is not a given that HE will be the one who gets it given his result at Worlds. His comment seemed to indicate that the Israeli federation could/will hold a skate off at Nebelhorn.
The original question was actually about the Israeli NOC who have a tendency not to send their athletes even when they eared the spot (Tamar Katz case). Taking Bychenko right now is the most successful male skater in Israel if someone is sent at all it would have to be him. However, at that point (right after his LP) Bychenko didn't know he had a spot

Quoting the quick quote:
' (On the Olympic spot)Right now it’s definitely no - it wouldn't be possible to make the quota from the Worlds. So the next target is preparing for the qualifying championship'
 
No- having talked to Bychenko recently, he was 100% under the impression that his 24th place did not qualify Israel an Olympic spot at all because of the countries above him potentially earning additional spots. Nebelhorn typically does not (or hasn't in a long time) allow multiple skaters from a country to go to the event unless it's host Germany and they've already gotten an Olympic qualifier, so it would only be one Israeli there anyways.
I found the actual quote as opposed to the paraphrased one I referred to earlier and as you noted it is clear that he did not know he had a spot.

(On the Olympic spot) "Right now it’s definitely no - it wouldn't be possible to make the quota from the Worlds. So the next target is preparing for the qualifying championship."
 
Speaking of confusingly worded rules, have any of you ever tried to read FIG (gymnastics) qualifying rules? They take a needlessly complicated qualification system and word it in a way that is even more complicated. The ISU’s wording is actually a breeze in comparison even though I can see how it will be confusing to people.
 
I think maybe you guys should be blaming the ISU for this, not Jackie. They were the ones who wrote a rule that’s clear as mud.
Calling the rule unclear is what Jackie started saying after he had been called out. It’s like those people who keep saying the current judging system is so hard to understand when you know they haven’t studied it in the slightest. :shuffle:
 
Calling the rule unclear is what Jackie started saying after he had been called out. It’s like those people who keep saying the current judging system is so hard to understand when you know they haven’t studied it in the slightest. :shuffle:
I guess I only ever heard him say the rule was unclear so I can’t argue with you about that. But frankly, since the ISU seems unable to teach judges how to apply PCS and GOE properly, I generally prefer to blame them for everything. 😉
 
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The rule was crystal clear. It was misinterpreted for whatever reason. Why oh why do some people have such an issue with saying they got it wrong?
I guess I don’t understand why people care so much. I get mad about the fact that half a million people died in my country last year because we had a sociopath in the White House. About stuff like this - not so much. JMO.
 

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