2022 Nationals in Nashville

[tony]

You can’t have missed the politicization of the *********!!?? And that a large percentage of Republicans have indicated in polling that they will not get the ********* vaccine and that red and conservative states have much lower vaccination rates. I’m sure these same people have had many other vaccines in their lifetime, but nope not this one. Sure there have always been a small percentage of people that were totally against vaccines in the U.S. Or some who may have bad reactions to any vaccines that can’t risk it.

There's always going to be an us vs. them and there's always going to be a side to choose if there's an A and a B, but not every decision or way of thinking is linear. It's not as if the Republicans are the only ones who are over CV in general. I think people on all parts of the political spectrum have reduced their risk assessments by now, if you want to look at it that way. My state is red, my county is split down the middle politically, yet it is 97.32% vaccinated with at least one shot. That kinda ruins your line of thinking in a way. What if the remaining 2.7% voted more in favor of Biden?

But it still doesn't answer how a policy goes from mask required to..... mask required sans unvaccinated while not testing the vaccinated, changes a risk assessment for this specific event. Since I just said above that not everyone thinks the same, I truly am curious for an explanation on this one.

 

[Carolla5501]

The difference is if you’re vaccinated you’re not liable to use that valuable ICU space in the Nashville hospitals.


And you are statistically less likely to actually have Covid and give it to people sitting next to you


And it’s not a political statement to not get a vaccination. It’s showing your selfish and self-centered. Sadly rude and self-centered cross all political parties

 

[tony]

The difference is if you’re vaccinated you’re not liable to use that valuable ICU space in the Nashville hospitals.

Which has nothing to do with the people vaccinated at the venue IMO. Again, this was always a masks required event. Now if this was a free-for-all in a bar in downtown Nashville, I would say that point could be important. I don't know Nashville rules but I don't even think masks are mandated in most places there. The unvaccinated and 'daring' may find a way to get themselves put in the hospital, but the arena (with mask rules) isn't going to be a likely place comparatively speaking.

And you are statistically less likely to actually have ********* and give it to people sitting next to you

True on this account, but the risk is still not gone. My argument since the beginning of my comments has been if your mask has to stay on, then what changes for you? The flight you take to Nashville might have masked unvaccinated workers, the restaurant you go to may have unvaccinated wait staff, etc.

I don't think there's going to be a huge crowd of figure skating fans that will now not attend. We know there are a few here, but I think the majority will have been vaccinated and boosted yet still understand the risk the minute they step out of the bubble of their home.

 

[Flip Jump]

In April when I purchased my all event ticket I thought it strange that there was not a seat in between fans who were not family and a statement about showing a full vacation card or having a recent negative Covid test. I Know a booster was not even thought of at the time, but it was a USFS event and they should have had some procedures set in place. This would give spectators who were reluctant to get the vaccine time to possibly rethink their position or definitely not purchase tickets. Frankly I think putting these new guidelines in place 1 week before the event is unreasonable, but receiving a full refund is a nice option. This will be a different Nationals with no interaction between skaters and fans, but I’m grateful to be able to attend and see my friends from years past. Now I need to worry that my flight won’t get canceled.

 

[Carolla5501]

Which has nothing to do with the people vaccinated at the venue IMO. Again, this was always a masks required event. Now if this was a free-for-all in a bar in downtown Nashville, I would say that point could be important. I don't know Nashville rules but I don't even think masks are mandated in most places there. The unvaccinated and 'daring' may find a way to get themselves put in the hospital, but the arena (with mask rules) isn't going to be a likely place comparatively speaking.

True on this account, but the risk is still not gone. My argument since the beginning of my comments has been if your mask has to stay on, then what changes for you? The flight you take to Nashville might have masked unvaccinated workers, the restaurant you go to may have unvaccinated wait staff, etc.

I don't think there's going to be a huge crowd of figure skating fans that will now not attend. We know there are a few here, but I think the majority will have been vaccinated and boosted yet still understand the risk the minute they step out of the bubble of their home.

Well I’ve had a lot of flights over the past year, not as many as I used to have, but enough. And I’ve never seen a person working on the plane who wasn’t wearing a mask. The crew doesn’t take them off to eat near me so I’ll take my chances

as a matter fact I saw a person on a plane throwing one of the rude and selfish off the plane because he couldn’t be bothered to wear a mask. when Mr No Mask made his loud announcement about how he was never flying this airline again the person escorting him off the plane told him that was not a real problem as all of his future tickets have been canceled

 

[tony]

Well I’ve had a lot of flights over the past year, not as many as I used to have, but enough. And I’ve never seen a person working on the plane who wasn’t wearing a mask.

but that is exactly my point - they will be masked, everyone in the arena has to be masked. You won't know about the vaccination status of the airline worker or the restaurant worker, and you wouldn't have known about the other people in the arena. How is there a difference? Do people really think that there's a super rambunctious subset of figure skating fans who want to spend big money on Nationals, only to go and cause a scene about masks and get kicked out? I don't! They already canceled their trip plan when they saw the mask requirements. (and if someone here was going to throw away their all-event ticket money so easily, PM me so you can pay my rent next month).

 

[MacMadame]

Second, I’m still waiting for someone to explain how letting a bunch of people with vaccination records in to the venue without testing, and who will likely eat at some point, somehow makes it safer? I commented on it earlier and it got no reaction, but someone please tell me the difference whether you catch CV from someone vaxxed or unvaxxed? Maybe you think all vaccinated people have sat at home and not put themselves at any risk?

Yes, vaccinated people can get YKW. But that doesn't mean the risk is equal. Breakthrough cases for the vaccinated are very low. An unvaccinated person is 5x as likely to get YKW as an unvaccinated person.

True on this account, but the risk is still not gone.

The risk is never going to be 0% unless you cancel the whole event.

 

[tony]

Yes, vaccinated people can get YKW. But that doesn't mean the risk is equal. Breakthrough cases for the vaccinated are very low. An unvaccinated person is 5x as likely to get YKW as an unvaccinated person.

The risk at the end of the day is not one person in that arena is going to know whether someone near them has CV or not. All they will know is that they have a vaccination card. The ones who weren’t vaccinated and potentially could’ve provided proof of a negative test would’ve made the risk lower, no?…

The risk is never going to be 0% unless you cancel the whole event.

The risk is never going to be 0% unless you sit at home and never see any other person who has left that bubble.

 

[Tavi]

According to this recent non partisan analysis, the unvaccinated are more than 3x more likely to lean Republican than Democrat.

Unvaccinated Adults are Now More Than Three Times as Likely to Lean Republican than Democratic | KFF

A new KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor analysis finds that Republicans and Republican leaning independents, who represent 41% of adults, now make up 60% of the adult unvaccinated population across the country and that political partisanship is a stronger predictor of whether someone is vaccinated...

www.kff.org

According to this, about 39% of registered voters in Miami Dade are Democrats, 28% are Republicans, 31% have no party affiliation, and the remaining voters are affiliated with tiny minority parties.

https://www.miamidade.gov/elections/library/reports/voter-registration-statistics-cumulative.pdf

According to this, while 97.32% of Miami Dade residents have had “at least one shot,” only about 80% are fully vaccinated. No indication whether that includes a booster.

Florida COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker

This is your state and county equivalent level look at how many have gotten a dose or doses of the COVID-19 vaccine. Click on a state to see how many vaccines have been administered and you can drill down to the county level and see a bar chart that tracks the running total. Data for this...

data.democratandchronicle.com

Sadly, according to NYT, Miami Dade’s cases are up 1800% in the past 14 days and the positivity rate is 12%.

ETA Sorry the links don’t all work, but it’s easy enough to find the info with a google search.

 

[MacMadame]

The risk at the end of the day is not one person in that arena is going to know whether someone near them has CV or not. All they will know is that they have a vaccination card. The ones who weren’t vaccinated and potentially could’ve provided proof of a negative test would’ve made the risk lower, no?…

The unvaccinated can still attend so I'm not sure what your point is. As for the vaccinated, they are not just less likely to get YKW but also less likely to transmit it if they do get a breakthrough infection.

Anyway, I'm more thinking of the risk to the athletes because that's what these restrictions are about. If athletes are kept away from the audience for the most part and the audience has been tested or vaccinated, then the risk of the athletes getting YKW is pretty low especially if they are also vaccinated.

 

[tony]

The unvaccinated can still attend so I'm not sure what your point is. As for the vaccinated, they are not just less likely to get YKW but also less likely to transmit it if they do get a breakthrough infection.

The vaccinated are the ones who are not required to show any kind of test, regardless of whether they may have CV (and dare I say symptoms) or not. The unvaccinated either aren't going now or still have to show a recent within 3-day test. Regardless of who is less likely to carry and transmit, you're letting people who are vaccinated in without any kind of additional check. How can one not see that there's a higher risk with that population because of there being no additional verification in place? You're shutting out unvaccinated who test positive because you're checking for that. I guarantee that made many people become much more relaxed in attitude, when they should treat it the same as it was before.

Anyway, I'm more thinking of the risk to the athletes because that's what these restrictions are about. If athletes are kept away from the audience for the most part and the audience has been tested or vaccinated, then the risk of the athletes getting YKW is pretty low especially if they are also vaccinated.

Federations and the ISU have already shown they are capable of that. The athletes are no longer part of the fan events that some people were worried about, and everyone sitting in the stands with masks on shouldn't present issues. I'm sure they will have alternate exits out of the arena. The USFS gets flamed a lot but they've done a great job the last 14 or so months across events big or small.

 

[acraven]

@TanithandBenFan, thanks for posting the text of the email about ticket refunds. This is another case of my not receiving a USFS-related email I should have gotten. I still plan to attend Nationals, but I think one of my seatmates wants to cancel, so I need to follow up on this.

I'm curious: What was the return address on the email?

 

[livetoskate]

@TanithandBenFan, thanks for posting the text of the email about ticket refunds. This is another case of my not receiving a USFS-related email I should have gotten. I still plan to attend Nationals, but I think one of my seatmates wants to cancel, so I need to follow up on this.

I'm curious: What was the return address on the email?

[email protected]
I received their email today around 5:30pm.

 

[overedge]

I'm an "anti-masker" but I put up with it for certain buildings.

So in other words you only care about others' health and safety when it's convenient for you.

Stay home then.

 

[acraven]

Thank you, @livetoskate.

 

[Frau Muller]

Apparently they are now.
Which means the rest of us could have bought better seats. I wonder if they’ll resell or let us exchange.

But at least it will be less crowded for the rest of us.

Or…they’ll fill the empty seats with the cut-outs…with masks painted on?

 

[A.H.Black]

Does anyone know if there is an alternative to the clear app for those who don't use cell phones? There really has to be one, but I don't know if the USFSA has made arrangements or if those people will have to make a fuss when they get there.

 

[AnnM]

Does anyone know if there is an alternative to the clear app for those who don't use cell phones? There really has to be one, but I don't know if the USFSA has made arrangements of if those people will have to make a fuss when they get there.

I suspect original vaccination cards matched against an ID will also suffice. The main reason venues use the Clear app is for efficiency.

 

[MacMadame]

The unvaccinated either aren't going now or still have to show a recent within 3-day test.

And immediately after they are tested, they can go out and become infected and no one will know for another 2-3 days during which they can infect a ton of people.

USFS consulted with experts to come up with this policy (they list this in their email). Those experts clearly thought the vaccinated posed a low enough risk that they don't need to be tested throughout the week.

 

[Carolla5501]

If you’re looking for a process that’s going to be 100% safe, may I recommend Peacock in your living room


I feel like they are making a good faith effort and doing the best they can but some of you want absolute assurance and that doesn’t exist right now. Even if you tested everyone every day it’s not absolute assurance. You can get your money back and Peacock is five dollars a month


I expect that you will not have any interaction with skaters at this event. And honestly, the risk of you are giving Covid to a skater while we’re sitting in our seat is probably minuscule, Even if you’re eating or drinking and don’t have a mask on.

 

[Spikefan]

Does anyone know if there is an alternative to the clear app for those who don't use cell phones? There really has to be one, but I don't know if the USFSA has made arrangements of if those people will have to make a fuss when they get there.

I would want to know that information before 1/2 (last date for refund). I would call USFSA and the arena immediately. If the app is the only thing accepted the options are: get a cheap smart phone ASAP, plan to test as if unvaccinated or cancel and get a refund.

 

[Carolla5501]

Well this should make at least one poster happy


And for the rest of us it reduces the risk of those people who are afraid of needles and masks. They won’t be there


Wonder how many people will decide to get a refund who had already decided not to go for other reasons. Now they have an excuse. And of course the people who have been fire selling the tickets are going to be up in arms.

So responding to myself just because I’m curious. Either overnight a lot of all event packages on StubHub were sold or a lot of people pulled their package for a refund. When I looked earlier this week I think they were about 20 all event packages on sale, last night there were 11, this morning - five.

The number of tickets available for individual events doesn’t seem to have changed dramatically however

 

[Frau Muller]

If you’re looking for a process that’s going to be 100% safe, may I recommend Peacock in your living room


…

That’s been my Master Plan since Nashville Nationals was announced! I spend no money on ANYTHING (ballet, sports, concert, etc.) that can be watched in real time from my cozy sofa. Has nothing to do with the crud. I wish I had this option 40 years ago, when the only way to see 100% of an event was to dole-out hard-earned money for hotel, air fare, venue Tix, restaurants, etc.

 

[allezfred]

I will not be attending US Nationals, but I will say that if you have been able to get a vaccine and have not done so at this stage you are a selfish prick and deserve all the disruption to your life that being unvaccinated brings.

 

[Hedwig]

And immediately after they are tested, they can go out and become infected and no one will know for another 2-3 days during which they can infect a ton of people.

USFS consulted with experts to come up with this policy (they list this in their email). Those experts clearly thought the vaccinated posed a low enough risk that they don't need to be tested throughout the week.

are those PCR tests that are required?

Because a rapid test does not really help either way. They are way to insensitive to pick up a lot of infections. Especially if you go over three days. With a very fresh PCR test you are kind of safe but the other testing is really not doing as much as we hoped it would.

But it is a pet argument by many anti-vaxxers here in Europe - the pure unvaccinated who have to test and are therefore the SAFEST of them all vs the party hungry vaxxed people who then infect everyone.

Only - the reality is not as simple. Otherwise we would start to test everyone here. But most infections are not found with the rapid test or only after an onset of symptoms when the most infectious period is already behind you.

So again being vaxxed is the safest way for all activities. You are less likely to get it, less likely to spread it and much less likely to have a bad case (which it is all about in the end).

again - just in case you are talking about rapid tests which are widely used here and not PCR tests that don't take a whole day or two to process (then they are basically useless again). It it is PCR then I wonder why only once every three days, though. Then it stops being safe again.

 

[Hedwig]

I will not be attending US Nationals, but I will say that if you have been able to get a vaccine and have not done so at this stage you are a selfish prick and deserve all the disruption to your life that being unvaccinated brings.

Unfortunately very true. I try to keep an open mind for uneducated people who are bullied into strange thinking but I am having les and less patience and understanding even with that group.

 

[Bulletsdad]

There's always going to be an us vs. them and there's always going to be a side to choose if there's an A and a B, but not every decision or way of thinking is linear. It's not as if the Republicans are the only ones who are over CV in general. I think people on all parts of the political spectrum have reduced their risk assessments by now, if you want to look at it that way. My state is red, my county is split down the middle politically, yet it is 97.32% vaccinated with at least one shot. That kinda ruins your line of thinking in a way. What if the remaining 2.7% voted more in favor of Biden?

But it still doesn't answer how a policy goes from mask required to..... mask required sans unvaccinated while not testing the vaccinated, changes a risk assessment for this specific event. Since I just said above that not everyone thinks the same, I truly am curious for an explanation on this one.

Tony, I also live in Florida. I have a weekend house in Citrus County. 70% of Citrus voted for Trump and only 64% have gotten one jab. When I shop in Citrus, I am the only one masked, sans employees, at Winn Dixie. It's a little better at Publix, where about 25% are masked. Btw, I have to pass four "let's go Brandon" signs on the way to my house. Coincidence? I think not!

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Per email from the FOFS director, the Beijing send off reception is now invitation only. I hope the athletes will be virtual for it as they are going to be for the FOFS breakfast.

 

[tony]

Tony, I also live in Florida. I have a weekend house in Citrus County. 70% of Citrus voted for Trump and only 64% have gotten one jab. When I shop in Citrus, I am the only one masked, sans employees, at Winn Dixie. It's a little better at Publix, where about 25% are masked. Btw, I have to pass four "let's go Brandon" signs on the way to my house. Coincidence? I think not!

You already know the masked thing has been non-existent for a long time now all across Florida. Most people would be to the extreme if they went anywhere here, but in Miami, which was 53/46 for Biden in 2020, 80% of people have both shots and 97% have at least one. People can continue to make it political or realize at this point, with all the sources of proof that you need, a lot of people in general have moved on or have gotten much more lax, even past Florida. One thing I can tell you for sure - the nightlife or any sign of social life here isn't exclusive to Trump voters while the Dems all sit at home or masked up 24/7.

Which brings me to my next point- I know the risk stats get lower for those vaccinated/boosted. I'm the one who posted that CDC info a week or so ago in the CV forum. However, some of the comments in this very thread were making it seem like requiring vaccination at Nationals was going to make a difference and that people can feel safe and eat (remember how much of the eating and shuttle stuff were a big deal a few weeks ago?) when I'm repeatedly trying to remind people that the vaccinated are not being tested, and having your mask on is all you can do these days the minute you step outside. They still can have breakthrough cases- numbers of those are skyrocketing. Is it going to send you to the hospital? Most likely not. But what if someone vaccinated attends events earlier in the week and then starts to feel like they have a cold or whatever else? Odds are they aren't going to say shit nor will they be tested- because they have a vaccination card. I know people are going to argue and act like everyone is a saint and they will do the right thing, but be realistic for 2 seconds.

 

[Hedwig]

but that is a very different argument to what you wrote before that freshly tested unvaxxed people are safer. Which is just not true. In a way unfortunately. I really had high hopes for the rapid (self) tests but they were not the game changer I hoped they would be.