2021-22 ISU Grand Prix assignments announced

Dobre

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10,997
It seems a rather poor way to describe different difficult elements in figure skating as it implies that those different elements are worth the same amount. Which they aren't.

(Thereby leading to inexperienced fan confusion when the person with the clean triple axel loses to the person with the overrotated quad, etc.)
 

ErikWilliam

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863
It's a term used by a certain subset of fans who are not necessarily the most knowledgeable ones.
And it's probably a term not understood by a certain subset of fans who are possibly the least knowledgeable ones?
 

ErikWilliam

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863
Is there a reason you so want to make fetch happen here?

Back on topic, I just realized Brezina has two assignments and I am now wondering if he plans to skate forever.
Not especially. But why would you snarkily imply that those who use "ultra" are less knowledgeable fans? It's rude and uncalled for.

But yeah, when I saw Brezina's name on the GP, I thought he's been retired for a while.
 
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MsZem

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16,324
Not especially. But why would you snarkily imply that those who use "ultra" are less knowledgeable fans? It's rude and uncalled for.
There are certain Twitter/Reddit fans whose interest and knowledge of skating is, let's say, more recent.

But yeah, when I saw Brezina's name on the GP, I thought he's been retired for a while.
He was at Worlds!

Let us now look upon this picture of his first GP podium.
 

VGThuy

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35,261
Using Ultra-C to describe ladies skaters doing triple axels and quads don’t really make sense. At the time, the scoring system of gymnastics in the 1960s was capped at 10.00 and the highest value an element could get was a C level. So the Japanese MAG team started doing routines that included elements that were beyond C but couldn’t get any value other than a C since a D didn’t exist and they still could have had routines that met the 10.00 value if they didn’t do the “ultra-C” elements. Everything the Russian ladies are doing have an individual value and are in the COP and there are theoretically no scoring caps for TES in figure skating these days. Not to mention figure skating elements were never given letter ratings like A, B, C. Now, I may use it, as a joke, if a skater were to do something so difficult that it wasn’t in the COP yet, like a quintruple Axel and the ISU Tech committee had to scramble to give it a point value or ended up giving it the same value as the hardest jump already recognized in that current COP despite how unfair that is.

Just like the idea of “grand slam” or “golden slam” things were invented just to add more terms for comparing records and abilities for the stan wars.
 
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ErikWilliam

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863
We could all bitch about how STUPID and INACCURATE calling our sport "Figure Skating" is, too. Some things you just accept. If someone says Koz won't be competitive without Ultra-C, we know what that means. Not everything has to be a fight, you pick your battles and let the insignificant stuff slide. When all the Worlds top 10 are attempting ultra-C, then we can say it has no meaning. But at least right now any skating fan should know what it stands for. Or not. Just do what makes you happy. I don't think anyone really cares about this, do they?
 

MsZem

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We could all bitch about how STUPID and INACCURATE calling our sport "Figure Skating" is, too. Some things you just accept. If someone says Koz won't be competitive without Ultra-C, we know what that means.
I would have been very happy not to know what it means and not have to wade through this stuff in the GP thread. We have skating-specific terminology we can use, and I really don't see the point of going on about how we should adopt different terms because some fans like them.

Also, the origin of the name "figure skating" is pretty clear.
 

SkateFanBerlin

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876
I asked about ultra-c and regret it. Jesus, the last 3 pages have been about this. Anymore and I'm going to create a separate thread.

Anyone want to talk about skating? Impossible to understand the state of pairs. So many teams shaken up. New teams created. Has this happened before.

After Olys come rule changes. I wonder if there should be a cap on ice dance. Teams go on forever. The look seems stale - most teams doing thee impassioned lover thing. Want to see fresh new teams with new ideas able to work up the system.
 

marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
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13,920
Resentful of the fact I had to read through 3 pages to understand this latest conversation.
*Not all figure skating fans are gymnastics fans.
Also disappointed that I was stuck in a time warp and planning a possible trip to SC thinking it was going to be in Ottawa :wall:
 

ErikWilliam

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863
Resentful of the fact I had to read through 3 pages to understand this latest conversation.
*Not all figure skating fans are gymnastics fans.
I first saw the term months ago and I picked up the first time what it meant. I mean it took me less than one hot second to understand what was meant. I did do gymnastics as a kid, but I don't know much of anything about gymnastics. Not a fan. We should all know by now "Ultra" means 3a or quads for women. Pretty soon it will be passe. But you at least are not in the dark anymore about what we're referring to, if you even actually were.
 

MsZem

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We should all know by now "Ultra" means 3a or quads for women.
No, we should not all know this. It is not interesting and not necessary and please for the love of god can we just stop this inane discussion in this thread that has nothing to do with it.

I asked about ultra-c and regret it. Jesus, the last 3 pages have been about this. Anymore and I'm going to create a separate thread.
Please do and make it go away :D

Purple, Michelle Kwan, coffee yogurt, US ladies - any of these topics would be vastly preferable.
 
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kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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I had no idea what a GOAT was and wondered why people who like Hanyu were calling Hanyu a goat, which is generally an insult in (American) English.

I googled it, like many here are always telling each other, rather than feeling put-out, which I reserve for not understanding which skater or team someone is referencing by the names/initials they use when they post. Surely "GOAT" didn't originate as a figure skating term, unless, Phil Hersh invented it, and I'd ignored him.

This is FSU, so my unsolicited advice is to make sure your :rolleyes: muscles are in shape.
 

VGThuy

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We could all bitch about how STUPID and INACCURATE calling our sport "Figure Skating" is, too. Some things you just accept. If someone says Koz won't be competitive without Ultra-C, we know what that means. Not everything has to be a fight, you pick your battles and let the insignificant stuff slide. When all the Worlds top 10 are attempting ultra-C, then we can say it has no meaning. But at least right now any skating fan should know what it stands for. Or not. Just do what makes you happy. I don't think anyone really cares about this, do they?
I just think it's an interesting discussion. I'm not really arguing for or against it, but just expressing my observations about this term and showing my age by being grumpy about changing terminology. I'm just thinking out loud.

I think it's kind of a fun discussion. Like as a response to the above post, I could argue that although the term "figure skating" may not make sense any more with the absence of school figures being part of the competition, at least it has a history in this sport as it was a huge part of the development and competition for this sport for decades, especially during its formative years while it evolved into what we see now. And moves done in school figures are still not only being done today but are encouraged by the IJS in the footwork and MITF. Plus, even elements are defined by their shape (straightline, circular, serpentine) and although they obviously were not shapes in school figures, they are somewhat of a figure (even though modern day shapes like those are no longer made to strictly look straight, circular, or serpentine).

I had no idea what a GOAT was and wondered why people who like Hanyu were calling Hanyu a goat, which is generally an insult in (American) English.

I googled it, like many here are always telling each other, rather than feeling put-out, which I reserve for not understanding which skater or team someone is referencing by the names/initials they use when they post. Surely "GOAT" didn't originate as a figure skating term, unless, Phil Hersh invented it, and I'd ignored him.

This is FSU, so my unsolicited advice is to make sure your :rolleyes: muscles are in shape.
From my research, GOAT is a sort of a newish but VERY American term (see: https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/09/07/tom-brady-goat-dictionary/) that sort of came out and started to be used by not only all sports but many other facets of life. It also started to be use for phrases that were already being used in figure skating like when Michelle Kwan would be called "the greatest skater of all time" by those on MKF. I'd argue it's a vague enough term that can be applied to anything, not just sports because the term "greatest of all time" can apply to anything, even though I find it sort of an impossible term to deal with, and find it to be thrown around for stans to express their admiration and to use it as a way to start "discussions" about their GOAT v. his/her/their rivals.

To me, ultra-C just seems more specific to that particular sport and made more sense with it. Further, the ISU doesn't recognize things like "golden slams" nor was it part of our tradition. However, like everything, if people use something long enough, it will become part of figure skating lexicon no matter what my opinions are about how much sense it actually makes.
 

Sylvia

So happy the JGP season is back!
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66,872
When will tix for SC finally go on sale?
I posted something about that 3 pages ago ;): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ignments-announced.108402/page-4#post-6016055
From what Skate Canada tweeted, sounds like not for a while.
Anyone want to talk about skating? Impossible to understand the state of pairs. So many teams shaken up. New teams created. Has this happened before.
We usually have a separate thread in the Trash Can to discuss pairs each season, like the "Dance Hall" for ice dance now: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ing-the-bling-or-no-beijing-2021-2022.108381/

@clairecloutier, would you like to start one for the Olympic season?
 

kwanfan1818

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However, like everything, if people use something long enough, it will become part of figure skating lexicon no matter what my opinions are about how much sense it actually makes.
And like anything else that's used on this site, it will please some people, others will be neutral about it, it will annoy the sh!t out of others, and we'll discuss this for pages. (Is a bear Catholic?) And unless the Admins are annoyed and configure a global substitution -- was it "I'm a Plushy wannabe twit" at one point for a Plushenko diminutive? -- all of the terms will continue to be posted, and all the people will react as usual.
 

VGThuy

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And like anything else that's used on this site, it will please some people, others will be neutral about it, it will annoy the sh!t out of others, and we'll discuss this for pages. (Is a bear Catholic?) And unless the Admins are annoyed and configure a global substitution -- was it "I'm a Plushy wannabe twit" at one point for a Plushenko diminutive? -- all of the terms will continue to be posted, and all the people will react as usual.
Remember people actually got mad when "Plushy" and "Yags" was first starting to be used? I remember some Plushenko fans (maybe some of them who used "Zhenya" and thus got the substitution ;)) being angry that people were using it. Maybe some non-fans co-opted it and started using it like a slur, like the way the Tara World posters used Michelle Kwan's family nickname "Shelley" and used it as some sort of slur.
 

Sylvia

So happy the JGP season is back!
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66,872
Copying over this exchange re. how James/Radford likely got 2 GP assignments since it's on topic here:
I believe the split couple rule applies if one partner finished in the top 6 (or is it top 10?) at Worlds the past 2 seasons. It's possible 2019 Worlds counts, since there was no 2020 Worlds, so if that's the case, then it would be Vanessa that got her and Eric 2 spots.
That appears to be what happened: J/R got two spots based on J/C's last Worlds results.

The only split couple rules in the Announcements have been for those who placed 7-12 at the last two Worlds. The Announcement has no paragraph about those who placed 1-6 at the last X Worlds. The "X" has never been defined. It may very well be that the same two-season rules apply to those placing 1-6 as those placing 7-12. It's hard to imagine Savchenko wanting to turn down GP spots, regardless of how they'd place.

That would make Split Couple rules different from return skaters, where those placing 1-6 in the last 10 years could take the one-time option to return.
 

tony

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10,086
Remember people actually got mad when "Plushy" and "Yags" was first starting to be used? I remember some Plushenko fans (maybe some of them who used "Zhenya" and thus got the substitution ;)) being angry that people were using it. Maybe some non-fans co-opted it and started using it like a slur, like the way the Tara World posters used Michelle Kwan's family nickname "Shelley" and used it as some sort of slur.
Let's not forget Janny.

Actually, let's just call all the difficult sets of elements Janny.
 

SidelineSkater

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145
So how about those GP assignments?

Any new thoughts after a few days of mulling the lineups?

Great to see the Korean ladies get some representation with four skaters having two assignments - including three of them at NHK. Interesting NHK was the only GP to avoid a full slate of max Russian ladies. I thought there would be three at all the events! No matter how you slice it, the depth of ladies skating is well represented.

Out of curiosity, could Muramoto/Takahashi not have been invited to Skate America, due to not having a SB or WS high enough? Otherwise their US training base would have made them a great selection.

And yes, this is a really poor attempt at getting the conversation steered back to GPs :)
 

screech

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6,468
There are certain Twitter/Reddit fans whose interest and knowledge of skating is, let's say, more recent.


He was at Worlds!

Let us now look upon this picture of his first GP podium.
I remember people comparing his skating to Jeff Buttle back then, and my god is he ever a baby Jeff in that photo.

The reason fans started using the term was specifically that they wanted an abbreviated way of saying that.
Because 3A and 4S are too long...

I'm hoping/expecting that after the Olympics, it will be announced that quads will be allowed in the womens SP starting in the new quadrennial. IMO it seems unfair to restrict those that can do them, to 'even the playing field' for those that can't. It was permitted into the mens SP in 1998, when it was not yet an element being completed by the majority of skaters...
 

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