2018 Olympics Team Event Qualification

[VGThuy]

Can Russia actually compete in this event? OAR did not qualify

I'm sure if the IOC gives individual sporting federations latitude to decide for themselves to recognize a team made up of only OARs so long as all members are approved by the IOC through the process they put forth, then the ISU will definitely allow a "Russian" team to compete in the team event.

 

[Sylvia]

Published yesterday (Dec. 14): http://isu.org/news/127-owg-figure-...ied-teams-for-the-team-event?templateParam=15

Direct link to the 6-page PDF: ISU Communication No. 2134 - OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES 2018 ENTRIES/PARTICIPATION FIGURE SKATING TEAM EVENT

Qualified Team Entries
1 Canada 6084
2 Russia 5924
3 United States of America 5055
4 Japan 4345
5 China 4231
6 Italy 3801
7 France 3652
8 Germany 2806
(9)* Spain 1858
10 Israel 1521 (can use “additional athlete quota” for ladies entry)
11 Republic of Korea 1397 (can use “additional athlete quota” for pairs entry)

* Spain has not qualified for the Ladies and Pair Skating individual events. Consequently, they are not considered as a Team. However should a late replacement be made (ESP is 2nd stand-by in Pairs), the Team would qualify and therefore the last team currently qualified, Team 11, Republic of Korea (KOR) would no longer be qualified for the Team Event.

Stand-by Team Entries
1 Australia 1320
2 Ukraine 1124
3 Czech Republic 1069

 

[Vagabond]

 

[misskarne]

*is intently staring at all the pairs-qualified countries to please use their spots*

 

[Coco]

Slow on the uptake here...so if North Korea doesn't use there pairs spot it will knock South Korea out of the team event?

 

[misskarne]

Slow on the uptake here...so if North Korea doesn't use there pairs spot it will knock South Korea out of the team event?

Why would it do that?

EDIT: Oh, I think I see where you've gone wrong. No, North Korea already gave up their spot, and it went to Japan, which is why we're now talking about Spain.

 

[Marco]

So the Russian ban does not affect the team event? I don't understand...

 

[Vagabond]

So the Russian ban does not affect the team event? I don't understand...

It appears that there will be a team of Olympic Athletes from Russia (OAR) in the Team Event.

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. -- F. Scott Fitzgerald

 

[Bellanca]

Neutral flag, uniforms, etc. --- it's still Russia. Everyone knows this except the IOC, apparently. And, of course, they want Russia, OOPS, pardon me, the "clean, neutral athletes" to participate in the team event... Because, lest we forget, Russia has been "banned" ... sort of.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

The ban can be lifted after the opening ceremony, so at some point, OAR may become RUS.

 

[kwanfan1818]

EDIT: Oh, I think I see where you've gone wrong. No, North Korea already gave up their spot, and it went to Japan, which is why we're now talking about Spain.

The original Pairs alternates for the individual event were: JPN, BLR, ESP. When North Korea gave up its spot, it was given to JPN, moving Spain to second alternate.

If two current spots are returned, or if one current spot is returned, and Belarus declines it, then Spain would get the Pairs spot, and thus qualify for three individual events and the Team Event, becoming the 9th qualifier, and bumping South Korea to first standby for the TE. Unless this happens, Spain is out of the equation altogether for the TE.

While all of the teams that qualified by the end of GPF had to confirm with the IOC that they were using those spots by 11 December (Olympic Qualification Document) -- and if any of the original 10 returned their spots or didn't confirm in time, the reallocation deadline by the IOC is Thursday, 21 December -- that doesn't mean that South Korea is safe, because, according to ISU Communication 2119, 11 January is the deadline by which members have to give the ISU a list of entries by name (including up to three substitutes), and any unallocated spots not on the official form are redistributed to the standby list by no later than 20 January. It's possible South Korea and Spain won't know who is in the TE until 20 January, and, looking at the form, I guess Korea would list their Additional Athlete Quota Pair as Pairs entry 1 (regardless of whether they're in the TE) and Spain would list their AAQ Lady as Ladies entry 1, just in case.

 

[Coco]

And unlike normally when I ask questions on FSU I actually did try and research this one myself! I just couldn't find the right document.

What is the tiebreaker in the team event? Say two countries end up with the same total number of placement points. Do they add up the sum of TSS of both short programs and long programs for all competitors or is it just the long program? I assume one of those is the tiebreaker. I suppose they could drop the highest placement for each country or the lowest placement for each country and then look at points but I would prefer them to add up the total TSS points are earned.

 

[chattila]

The ban can be lifted after the opening ceremony, so at some point, OAR may become RUS.

So the athletes may have to pack two sets of outfits...OAR for the opening cerem and RUS for whenever the ban is lifted? In the case of the figure skating Team Event, they might begin as "The OARs" -- since the Team Event commences one day before the Opening Cerem -- but may complete the event as "Russians"? Very odd. Something tells me that, in general, this is going to be one memorable Olympic Winter Games, hopefully for good reasons.

 

[Sylvia]

And unlike normally when I ask questions on FSU I actually did try and research this one myself! I just couldn't find the right document.

What is the tiebreaker in the team event?

Scroll to the end (section titled "4) ISU JUDGING SYSTEM – RESULT DETERMINATION"): http://isu.org/docman-documents-lin...-qualification-system-figure-skating-v11/file

When forming the intermediate and final result, in case of a tie between Teams, the tie breaking procedure will be used taking into consideration
 The highest aggregate Team points per Team from the two (2) best places in different disciplines will break the tie;
 If they remain tied, the highest total sum of the segment/total scores of the two (2) skaters/couples, who build the tie, will break the tie;
 If they remain tied, the highest aggregate Team points per Team from the three (3) best places in different disciplines will break the ties;
 If they remain tied, the highest total sum of the segment/total scores of the three (3) skaters/couples, who build the tie, will break the tie;
 If these criteria fail to break the ties, the Teams will be considered tied.

 

[RoseRed]

@Domshabfan @chattila No they can't. The suspension of the ROC may be fully or partially lifted following the commencement of the Closing Ceremony. And it won't necessarily be. Russia wanted any suspension to be only for the 2018 Games, but it's indefinite. The point is that the soonest it can be lifted is at the conclusion of these Games. I suppose in theory they could lift it in the middle of the closing ceremony and the athletes could march there as Russia, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[Bellanca]

The ban can be lifted after the opening ceremony, so at some point, OAR may become RUS.

It has been suggested that any of the country’s athletes competing under a neutral flag (OAR) will be referred to as Olympic Athletes from Russia. Maybe this is what you are thinking about or referring to when suggesting it is possible that they will be become Russia (RUS.) at some point before the closing ceremonies because basically, they are no longer neutral athletes, they are Russian athletes per the “seemingly significant” concessions that have been made. So, in effect, you are correct

 

[Bellanca]

@Domshabfan @chattila No they can't. The suspension of the ROC may be fully or partially lifted following the commencement of the Closing Ceremony. And it won't necessarily be. Russia wanted any suspension to be only for the 2018 Games, but it's indefinite. The point is that the soonest it can be lifted is at the conclusion of these Games. I suppose in theory they could lift it in the middle of the closing ceremony and the athletes could march there as Russia, but I doubt that will happen.

This is also the case. Sources and family members in Russia tell me that they are waiting to see what Putin may (still) do before it is all said and done, for he can be fickle as April weather. Bottom line, no one wants a boycott, and so concessions have been made to Russia.

 

[reut]

The original Pairs alternates for the individual event were: JPN, BLR, ESP. When North Korea gave up its spot, it was given to JPN, moving Spain to second alternate.

If two current spots are returned, or if one current spot is returned, and Belarus declines it, then Spain would get the Pairs spot, and thus qualify for three individual events and the Team Event, becoming the 9th qualifier, and bumping South Korea to first standby for the TE. Unless this happens, Spain is out of the equation altogether for the TE

I have a question: why would Japan return their pairs' spot? They don't have minimum scores?

 

[skatingguy]

I have a question: why would Japan return their pairs' spot? They don't have minimum scores?

That's one possibility. Other reasons that a country might not use an Olympic slot could include citizenship issues, or injury.

 

[misskarne]

Japan won't return their pairs spot. They have two citizenship eligible teams with the minimums. It's not going to happen barring some kind of disaster.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I have a question: why would Japan return their pairs' spot? They don't have minimum scores?

JPN was given the Pairs spot PRK returned, and they accepted it. What that did was move ESP up a spot in the alternates list.

The conditions under which ESP could get a Pairs spot are:

• Two spots -- any two spots, whether two from any two countries or two from any one country -- are returned by the January deadline.
• One spot is returned by any country, and BLR turns it down

The returned spot(s) doesn't have to be from JPN, and it's unlikely to be from JPN, which has two Pairs with citizenship and the minimums. Had RUS been banned outright, or if Russia pulled its team (or made it unviable for athletes to choose to compete), that was one possibility discussed. Another is that someone's citizenship doesn't come through -- the only skaters discussed recently represented ISR: Tankova, because no one knew if she was a citizen, and Tkachenko, who didn't get it -- or there is only one eligible Pair that is injured.

 

[reut]

Well, Tankova is going, so no problem there. And it very much looks like Russia is going and competing. And let's hope everyone is healthy. So at the moment it looks more like a hypothetical suggestion in case someone is injured. I see.
Thanks for the explanation!

 

[Sedge]

The ban can be lifted after the opening ceremony, so at some point, OAR may become RUS.

Would that involve a costume change like Laurine Lecavelier's in her Grease program?

 

[kwanfan1818]

So at the moment it looks more like a hypothetical suggestion in case someone is injured.

The unfortunate part is that it leaves the question open well into January, however remote the chance. I think they should lock the TE in December, and only make changes if one of the original 10 has to WD, and then look at the alternates list for TE at the time of the TE WD.

 

[seabm7]

According to this Korean news, Spain did not submit the team entry until the deadline:

http://news.sbs.co.kr/news/endPage.do?news_id=N1004570933

 

[misskarne]

According to this Korean news, Spain did not submit the team entry until the deadline:

http://news.sbs.co.kr/news/endPage.do?news_id=N1004570933

Wait, what does this mean?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Google translate says that they didn't submit the team entry form until the 12th; the 11th is the deadline.

According to Communication 2134, Spain would only qualify for the TE if enough Pairs withdrew and they qualified their Pair from the alternates list. Submitting the team entry form would be a placeholder for them just in case.

http://www.isu.org/communications/15654-2134-owg-2018-qualified-teams-for-team-event/file

I haven't heard of any citizenship or debilitating injuries for the teams ahead of them, but maybe I'm behind.

 

[seabm7]

Wait, what does this mean?

It seems that the Spain Federation thought they could not get the pair ticket, which would have given them the team event entry instead of South Korea.

Spain is No. 2 in the waiting list of pairs. However, Belarus did not submit an entry to Euro, creating a speculation if they still have an Olympic eligible pair or not. Spain could be virtually No. 1 in the waiting list.

Czech Republic did not submit an entry to Euro, either. But it has been known for a while that Duskova is recovering from her ACL injury.

 

[misskarne]

Righto. I just got super confused because I had thought they were behind Australia and then I thought maybe I missed something.

 

[kwanfan1818]

No, Spain was 9th on the list of scorers, Israel was 10th, Korea was 11th, and Australia 12th. Spain hadn't qualified in at least three individual disciplines, but they could have submitted the form for the TE by the January 11 deadline, just in case their Pair qualified off the alternates list.

The Pairs alternates list after Nebelhorn was:

1. JPN
2. BLR
3. ESP
4. GBR
5. KOR
6. HUN

JPN got PRK's spot when they didn't claim it by the deadline, moving BLR to first on the list and ESP to second on the list.

I didn't realize that the BLR Pair that qualified at Nebelhorn, Danilova/Kamianchuk, the only senior Pair from BLR with the TES minimums, weren't entered. That bumps ESP to first alternate.

I thought Duskova was on her way back and is expected to compete in KOR. But if she doesn't, or there is another withdrawal, the Spanish Pair would be in, but Spain would not be able to compete in the TE.