Canadian Pairs 2019/2020 Season News and Updates

[Andora]

While I completely agree, I can say with absolutely confidence, if that has been my dd, she also would have skated. I am assuming parents, if they are even there, are in the stands so would not be involved, although I am not sure even I would have been able to stop dd in a situation like that.

I realize it is very difficult for those of you who have not had children skate at this level, but even before this level, those that have what it takes to get there are made differently. Their brains work differently. Maybe not all, but certainly many. Being a parent to an elite figure skater is gut wrenchingly awful sometimes. Okay, often. Multiply whatever pain you think they live, however hard you think they work, by 10 and you might be getting close.

I didn't say anything about a parent - I'm wondering if coaches are trained to watch for situations like this. Maybe not. And if she was in shock as has been suggested above it could be hard to catch, etc. etc., I can see as others have pointed out. It's just really tough and doesn't seem like it should, even to young athletes.

 

[Colonel Green]

It's very difficult to say anything about the chain of decision-making here (which clearly went awry at some point) without knowing a lot more than we do about what the on-site medical people determined and told the coaches and/or the referee.

 

[cdn skate fan]

To start off, the rinkside medical personnel did not go out on the ice to assess her as she lay there having fallen on the ice from way up in the air right in front of where they were sitting. They stood up at the boards and some words were exchanged back and forth between her partner and the EMS, then he helped her get up and go over to the coach. At the time I thought it was completely inappropriate for her to be getting up off the ice without medical assistance after a fall like that. None of this is good press for a federation that is trying to drum up interest in pairs.

 

[mackiecat]

Yep I once bellyflopped on a double axel that went very wrong during in a program. I restarted my long program. Skated the whole session, got off and told my dad that my knee hurt. He took me to emergency. My knee was fine but I had 2 broken ribs. That was just a practice, in competition the adrenaline would be also going

 

[Vase]

It's very difficult to say anything about the chain of decision-making here (which clearly went awry at some point) without knowing a lot more than we do about what the on-site medical people determined and told the coaches and/or the referee.

I agree.
Personal opinion, I feel and would hope that a coach knows their athletes to realize the right call under mostly any circumstance.
So many scenarios, she’s maybe quiet and shy and told them she can still skate.
But with loose teeth, a parent should’ve been called for, assuming they didn’t send the 13yr old to nationals alone.

 

[yfbg722]

While I completely agree, I can say with absolutely confidence, if that has been my dd, she also would have skated. I am assuming parents, if they are even there, are in the stands so would not be involved, although I am not sure even I would have been able to stop dd in a situation like that.

I realize it is very difficult for those of you who have not had children skate at this level, but even before this level, those that have what it takes to get there are made differently. Their brains work differently. Maybe not all, but certainly many. Being a parent to an elite figure skater is gut wrenchingly awful sometimes. Okay, often. Multiply whatever pain you think they live, however hard you think they work, by 10 and you might be getting close.

I can 100% vouch for this. My daughter was injured before junior worlds. She had two injuries actually. Skate Canada came to assess her and through tears after a sim she assured them she could still compete. They needed her and her partner to compete to hold onto three spots because even injured they were Canada's best option. Skate Canada cleared her to compete and she did it. Did I want her to? Absolutely not. But it's very hard to say no to a determined athlete, a coach and a federation. They did place high enough to hold onto the spots so it paid off and she recovered but it was hard to watch as her mom. Another time she took a bad fall off ice and sprained her ankle so badly it was swollen to the size of a baseball. The first thing she said to me when I saw her was that she was SURE she'd be able to get a skate on it the next day. Pairs girls are the toughest, craziest chicks out there, and you're absolute right that being their parent is "gut wrenchingly awful sometimes".

 

[puglover]

My daughter fell on her arm at a pre-competition practice in Montreal. She came off the ice with signs of shock. She was seen by the medical personnel at the rink and they bundled us off straight away to the local hospital. X rays were taken and I was told it was not broken and she could skate. She did skate and actually won a medal - although the wrist was swollen. She even did the water slide at the hotel. This was before cell phones. That evening someone else looked at the x ray and realized it was a break. They only had our home phone number and my husband was at the lake with the other kids and so we did not know until we got home that her wrist was broken. By then it was very swollen and hard to cast. I felt terrible that I let her skate but she was also very determined and I am not sure I could have stopped her. Fortunately she did not fall again on that arm.

 

[triple_toe]

With all due respect, it doesn't f*cking matter how determined these girls are or what they're made of. I skated at an elite level for years and pushed through all sorts of pain because injuries were treated as some sort of moral failing and I was proud of myself for doing so, but I still feel the effects of it 10 years after quitting. Pushing through some horrific injuries are part of what lead to my ultimate retirement from the sport. The girl is 13. It's not her call. The coaches should have withdrawn the team. This type of bs needs to stop, but as we all know, the culture of this sport is far from healthy. This type of hideous disregard for the well being of the athletes is so ingrained that not only is this normalized, anything less than pushing through the pain is frowned upon. That kind of attitude has long term physical and psychological consequences.

We need to stop conflating suffering with success.

 

[4rkidz]

What medical expertise was there qualified to assess? As First aiders or St Johns are NOT?

 

[skatingluver]

I was sat where the skaters entered the ice and watched her wiping away tears when she stepped onto the ice before they skated. There was absolutely no way the poor kid should have been allowed to skate. I’m disgusted her coach allowed that to happen.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

You don’t get two loose teeth and NOT get a concussion. Maybe she was in shock at the time but surely got symptoms afterwards. By any protocol she should have had her neck immobilized. Coaches need their first aids renewed every three years. sarcasm But hey, when you are a very competitive coach, you want your kids to compete. So much time and money invested... sarcasm off. Coaches in general not just skating coaches focus so much on performance at D Day that they loose their mind and oversee injuries as pebbles on the road. Keep rollin’ baby, keep rolling

 

[Tinami Amori]

Here is a private post from a Russian family on a private russian chat (living in Canada now) who trains in the same club/rink as Emy Carignan - Bryan Pierro and were present at the Canadian Nationals.

"These kids are from our club. All that is stated in the article is true. She has a broken knee cap in the right leg, left hand, a split lip and and broken teeth. There is info (inside the club people) that she also has a concussion.

"A horrid fall. The Canadian and Quebeck skating entities posted about it. And we were shocked by the commentary. They all write that she is such a "hero". I am quite outraged to read these announcements. And i have the same question "How did they let a child with broken bones out to skate?". They were skating 4th in the order. In other words, there was enough time to do a medical evaluation on the child, to some degree properly. It's understood, a coach can not diagnose a bone break. But there is always a medical team on site. And i am quite certain she did not get any shots (pain shots). They (medical team) function by protocol. Step too left, step too right - you get a firing squad (you get shot). That's the Canadian mentality. They pretend to be so positive, want to see positive in everything, even when the fact of nothing positive is apparent.".

"Ребята из нашего клуба. Все как описано в статье. У нее перелом првого колена, левого запястья, разитая губа и поломанный зуб. В клубе поговаривали, что еще сотрясение.

Падение ужасное. В ленте все организации по фигурному катанию Канады и Квебека написали об этом. И нас очень поразили комментарии. Все пишут про то, какой она герой. Я буквально в гневе пребывала, читая эти сообщения. И у меня точно такой же вопрос. "Как ребенка с переломами выпустили на лед?" Они катались четвертыми. То есть время вполне было достаточно, чтобы более не менее осмотреть ребенка, как следует. Понятно, что тренер не мог диагностировать переломы. Но там бригада скорой помощи стоит всегда. И я уверенна, что никаких уколов ей не ставили. У них все по протоколу. Шаг вправо, шаг влево - расстрел.
Такой у них менталитет. Они все такие позитивные и хотят во всем видеть позитив, даже там где его явно быть не может."

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Here is a private post from a Russian family on a private russian chat (living in Canada now) who trains in the same club/rink as Emy Carignan - Bryan Pierro and were present at the Canadian Nationals.

"These kids are from our club. All that is stated in the article is true. She has a broken knee cap in the right leg, left hand, a split lip and and broken teeth. There is info (inside the club people) that she also has a concussion.

"A horrid fall. The Canadian and Quebeck skating entities posted about it. And we were shocked by the commentary. They all write that she is such a "hero". I am quite outraged to read these announcements. And i have the same question "How did they let a child with broken bones out to skate?". They were skating 4th in the order. In other words, there was enough time to do a medical evaluation on the child, to some degree properly. It's understood, a coach can not diagnose a bone break. But there is always a medical team on site. And i am quite certain she did not get any shots (pain shots). They (medical team) function by protocol. Step too left, step too right - you get a firing squad (you get shot). That's the Canadian mentality. They pretend to be so positive, want to see positive in everything, even when the fact of nothing positive is apparent.".

"Ребята из нашего клуба. Все как описано в статье. У нее перелом првого колена, левого запястья, разитая губа и поломанный зуб. В клубе поговаривали, что еще сотрясение.

Падение ужасное. В ленте все организации по фигурному катанию Канады и Квебека написали об этом. И нас очень поразили комментарии. Все пишут про то, какой она герой. Я буквально в гневе пребывала, читая эти сообщения. И у меня точно такой же вопрос. "Как ребенка с переломами выпустили на лед?" Они катались четвертыми. То есть время вполне было достаточно, чтобы более не менее осмотреть ребенка, как следует. Понятно, что тренер не мог диагностировать переломы. Но там бригада скорой помощи стоит всегда. И я уверенна, что никаких уколов ей не ставили. У них все по протоколу. Шаг вправо, шаг влево - расстрел.
Такой у них менталитет. Они все такие позитивные и хотят во всем видеть позитив, даже там где его явно быть не может."

I am so disgusted by all of this. The last part is so true. Blinded we are. Someone from the medical team should have been required to check her before letting her skate. A real medical team, not just first aids.

I have seen coaches taking no action when there were bad fumes or too much Carbon monoxyde (!) in the arena. I still do not know if it was because of ignorance or just because they didn’t want to interrupt lessons and lose money. It freaks me every time. I am so ashamed there images made it world wide.

 

[mag]

"These kids are from our club. All that is stated in the article is true. She has a broken knee cap in the right leg, left hand, a split lip and and broken teeth. There is info (inside the club people) that she also has a concussion.

Okay, I had no idea it was this bad. That is insane. I don’t see how she could have possibly have passed even a basic screening from the coaches. What were they thinking?

My earlier point was that skaters do often train and compete in a lot of pain. We may not like it, but it is what they do, and yes, the Physio carries on long after they retire. What happened here is not that.

 

[dds262]

As a dentist - I took one look at her and knew she had suffered some significant oral trauma. Look at how swollen her lower lip is!! She probably couldn't even speak clearly....and the broken bones....some heads need to roll....you don't need to be a medical professional to know this girl was really injured. How many of the "adults" that allowed her to skate have kids of their own??? Would they have allowed their child out on the ice after that????

 

[dramagrrl]

I think it is extremely troubling that after the very dubious decision to allow her to compete, she ended up being hailed as a heroine on national television (in Rod Black's "essay" that closed the coverage of Canadians on CTV/TSN). What is that kind of messaging going to teach her (and other young skaters) about "bravely pushing through the pain" and skating while seriously injured?

 

[insideedgeua]

I don’t know what the protocol is in Canada, but at ISU events it is the skater that must sign the withdrawal form. A coach can not sign the form to make this decision on behalf of the skater.

I was at a JGP with a skater who was about to be loaded into an ambulance and the skater had to sign the paperwork to withdraw. It was very clear that obviously this skater was not going to compete, yet the coach couldn’t withdraw on their behalf.

It seemed ridiculous at the time, but I can only assume that this is the case because at some stage a coach has made the decision on behalf of a skater and then there was an issue over this.

 

[mackiecat]

She skating with gauze in her mouth. There was a medical team who examined her there but I don’t know the qualifications

 

[Coco]

What if it had become dislodged? She could have choked on it! Smh....

 

[kwanfan1818]

I can understand not letting coaches withdraw a skater, but a Federation should be able to, based on medical evaluation.

 

[Erin]

In other news, Skate Canada is sending Laurin & Éthier and Levesque & Hudon to Bavarian Open, so I would guess that those teams are the ones being considered for the open junior worlds spot.

I really liked Laurin & Éthier at Canadians. Didn’t hurt that they were skating to Ever After, which I love.

 

[triple_toe]

I don’t know what the protocol is in Canada, but at ISU events it is the skater that must sign the withdrawal form. A coach can not sign the form to make this decision on behalf of the skater.

I was at a JGP with a skater who was about to be loaded into an ambulance and the skater had to sign the paperwork to withdraw. It was very clear that obviously this skater was not going to compete, yet the coach couldn’t withdraw on their behalf.

It seemed ridiculous at the time, but I can only assume that this is the case because at some stage a coach has made the decision on behalf of a skater and then there was an issue over this.

A 13 year old cannot sign a legal contract, so I'm sure there's a way around this

 

[Andora]

I'm sorry, but the best case scenario here is it points out a hole in athlete protection that Skate Canada, coaches, etc., need to learn from. I understand shock, I understand determination, I get that there have been other less serious situations in the past that parents here have experienced-- it doesn't matter. This situation should be avoided as best as possible in the future.

I have no idea where this "she's so brave" business comes from. Spin? That pair girls seem to share DNA with X-Games competitors, ski jumpers, etc., and it's just expected they take terrifying spills in stride? None of this is ideal.

 

[dramagrrl]

I really liked Laurin & Éthier at Canadians. Didn’t hurt that they were skating to Ever After, which I love.

Slightly OT, but I also love the Ever After soundtrack, and I feel forever robbed that the world never got to see the LP to that music that David Wilson choreographed for Kimmie Meissner. (She ended up switching to a typical Lori Nichol program before the competition season began.)

 

[Xsktrx]

That's interesting IF there is possibility that McIntosh/Toste are moving on to other things. Would make sense of the "TBD" for the second jr world spot.

How skate canada fills that is beyond me as most of the other teams have glaring weaknesses.

Here’s the answer. Recently posted on coach Andrew Evans Instagram. Brandon appears to be moving on with school and Brooke is looking for a new partner and will continue in pairs. Check out the link below and the lovely seven picture history of their time as a pair together. Nice ending to a successful partnership. Hope we see more great things from Brooke.

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[Colonel Green]

I’ll miss seeing them develop, but best of luck to Brandon in his future plans. Brooke is super-talented, so hopefully they can find somebody good for her.

 

[Catherine M]

Good luck to Brooke in finding a new partner. Hopefully she'll be able to find someone who matches her skill level.

And good luck to L/E and L/H at the Bavarian open in their race for the 2nd spot to jr worlds. I'd give the edge to L/E due to their sbs jumps.

 

[Sk8mom123]

Here’s the answer. Recently posted on coach Andrew Evans Instagram. Brandon appears to be moving on with school and Brooke is looking for a new partner and will continue in pairs. Check out the link below and the lovely seven picture history of their time as a pair together. Nice ending to a successful partnership. Hope we see more great things from Brooke.

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Wow!! Wish them both all the best. I’m sure Brooke will have her selection of potential partners. Shes surrounded by awesome coaches. She’s amazing and best of luck to Brandon.

 

[Xsktrx]

So often the end of a pairs partnership ends with someone getting hurt or left behind. Brooke & Brandon’s story feels like it came to the appropriate happy ending. Can’t wait to see what (as the coach puts it) Brooke’s next chapter looks like!

 

[Vase]

Brandon was one skater that I wanted to watch grow and mature in this sport, he had such musicality and grace. I’ll miss watching him compete.
Best of luck to Brooke, I don’t think it’s easy finding a partner.