Favorite Skating Conspiracy Theories

[coppertop1]

I was also in that audience that night. I certainly did not turn my back or anything of the sort. However, that week I spoke to many non-Canadians in attendance who were extremely unhappy with the judging overall in ice dance at the time and at that competition in particular - and for many of them it had little to nothing to do with Bourne and Kraatz. I’ve read this account that you speak of before and I am wondering if those who write about it asked for proof of citizenship if those involved? I feel like history is being re-written by some with regard to exactly who had issues with the judging during that era and that competition. For instance, Rahkamo and Kokko were interviewed about their frustration with block judging and it wasn’t Canadians who submitted the petition about the judging.

The ice dance judging at the 2001 Worlds was horrible. The crowd booed all the way through the final flight. It wasn't just Bourne/Kraatz they were upset about. It was the judging in general. Tracy Wilson said the judges took ten steps backwards-- and not just because Bourne/Kraatz were off the podium.

 

[paskatefan]

How about Skate America 1997 when NoQuadTodd intentionally dislocated his shoulder because he saw 15 y/o Plushenko landing quads in the warm-up?

Seriously? If that's the case, that's one hell of a mean spirited conspiracy theory. I also think that nickname "NoQuadTodd" was very insulting & nasty!

 

[WillyElliot]

Seriously? If that's the case, that's one hell of a mean spirited conspiracy theory. I also think that nickname "NoQuadTodd" was very insulting & nasty!

No, just accurate. Or should I call him the King of Skating (except the quad), FranB?

 

[Spun Silver]

No, just accurate. Or should I call him the King of Skating (except the quad), FranB?

It's kind of anachronistic to taunt him for the lack of a quad IMO. He was going out as they were coming in. I think that fact may have affected his reputation retroactively because from what I've seen he was a very fine skater with an impressive record, and I'm a bit surprised that he's not more often talked about. (Imagine Ashley Wagner with six World medals instead of one!) When I saw him in either SOI or COI in the 2000s he had beautiful basics, was still doing triples and had presence such that he was my husband's favorite skater in the show both times we saw him. (I was a huge Sasha Cohen and Johnny Weir fan at the time.)

Btw, was that a real conspiracy theory at the time? It's hard to picture with Todd of all people -- or any skater, really.

 

[Simone411]

No, just accurate. Or should I call him the King of Skating (except the quad), FranB?

Well, I can say this much. FYI, I can personally guarantee you that @paskatefan is not FranB. I truly don't know who FranB is, and I've never heard of that person before. I've been around for a long time, and was a mod at one message board that paskatefan was a member of which was around 2003 or so.

I was also a member of the Todd Eldredge Message Board several years ago, and paskatefan was a member there, too. I've always loved Todd for his quality of skating. His technical and artistic qualities were immaculate, and of course, that is my opinion. I was also so proud and happy for him when he won the 1996 World Championships.

There are still skaters today that also haven't landed a quad, but I admire them for what they are capable of doing. One of those skaters is Jason Brown and I have respect for him as a skater just as I do Todd.

But I don't think it was very nice to accuse someone of being a pseud or troll, and I think that may be what you were implying with paskatefan. I happen to have a lot for respect for her, and I have respect for you, too, @WillyElliot. It still doesn't make it appropriate for anyone to accuse someone of being a psued or troll by just assuming that. ETA for correction.

 

[gk_891]

The ice dance judging at the 2001 Worlds was horrible. The crowd booed all the way through the final flight. It wasn't just Bourne/Kraatz they were upset about. It was the judging in general. Tracy Wilson said the judges took ten steps backwards-- and not just because Bourne/Kraatz were off the podium.

I agree the ice dance judging was terrible at the 2001 Worlds but not regarding B&K. While they definitely could've been higher in the OD, they lost synch in an important part of their FD and I honestly thought both the Lithuanians and Bulgarians should've been ahead of them in that portion of the competition. Interesting, the Canadian crowd gave a very dead reaction to Denkova & Staviski after their FD.

 

[el henry]

No, just accurate. Or should I call him the King of Skating (except the quad), FranB?

Who the heck is FranB?

Having met @paskatefan, um, not FranB. So, going with the interpretation that doesn't actually accuse someone of being someone else, #sarcasmfail.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

If I remember correctly, Fran Buhman (sp?) is/was THE Todd Eldridge uber fan like Trudi Marrapodi was for Brian Orser.

 

[Maximillian]

It does seem a little ridiculous to rag on Todd for having no quad considering he won his first Sr. National title two years after the first one was ever landed...

 

[maureenfarone]

I think Todd was 25 or 26 when he was learning the quad and I wasn't surprised that he never really was successful with it. I always enjoyed Todd's skating and still enjoy watching his performances. Don't know any skater that would intentionally injure themself and have no idea how WillyElliot could possibly know that Todd fell and dislocated his shoulder on purpose. I've seen paskatefan at several U. S. Nationals and know her name is not FranB. She is a wonderful supportive fan who cheers for many skaters including one of my favorites - who also barely had a quad - Ross Miner.

 

[allezfred]

The ice dance judging at the 2001 Worlds was horrible.

Fixed that for you.

Seriously, the programmes that season were all horrible. Fusar-Poli and Margaglio had the best of a bad lot.

It wasn't just Bourne/Kraatz they were upset about.

As someone who was there, it was mostly about that though which is fine. Natural that an audience would be most upset about their own skaters not doing well. Not sure why that is a controversial thing to say.....

 

[olympic]

Some of these really are silly rumors, but a stated conspiracy theory came from FC in 1980 that there was a German-speaking cartel (GDR, FRG, SUI, AUT) among the ladies' judges to stop Fratianne from winning and give it to Poetzsch. I think Fratianne was robbed but I can't swallow this.

 

[bardtoob]

It does seem a little ridiculous to rag on Todd for having no quad considering he won his first Sr. National title two years after the first one was ever landed...

But his team talked and talked about it for FOUR Olympic cycles ... And never landed one ... By the time the fourth Olympics came around other Americans were landing one or two and even trying three.

Some of these really are silly rumors, but a stated conspiracy theory came from FC in 1980 that there was a German-speaking cartel (GDR, FRG, SUI, AUT) among the ladies' judges to stop Fratianne from winning and give it to Poetzsch. I think Fratianne was robbed but I can't swallow this.

The tradition was to hold down skaters with poor figures if it did not effect the overall placement of the skater, but they certainly did not hold down Beillmann although getting first did nothing for her overall standing ... In addition to the rule of marking poorly performing skaters lower, but they certainly did not mark down Poetzsch enough.

 

[bardtoob]

How about Jan Hoffman being sold up a creek by Frau Muller so she could get her Olympic Gold Medalist and Carlos Fassi could his in 1980. The dude got the most points but still lost

 

[bardtoob]

How about Hoffman becoming a bitter old judge that did not even watch the skating, hence saying he did not see Kerrigan's 3T-3T at the Olympics. He just marked according to politics, as had been done to him.

 

[JasperBoy]

The ice dance judging at the 2001 Worlds was horrible. The crowd booed all the way through the final flight. It wasn't just Bourne/Kraatz they were upset about. It was the judging in general. Tracy Wilson said the judges took ten steps backwards-- and not just because Bourne/Kraatz were off the podium.

I was in the audience that night too, along with a group of Canadian and American fans. Notes were circulated along the rows suggesting that people turn their backs on the award ceremony. I don't know who started the notes.
My group was disgusted with the judging but were not willing to be so rude. We voted with our feet....left the arena before the awards ceremony began. So many people left it's surprising there was anyone in the stands to turn their backs.

 

[olympic]

But his team talked and talked about it for FOUR Olympic cycles ... And never landed one ... By the time the fourth Olympics came around other Americans were landing one or two and even trying three.



The tradition was to hold down skaters with poor figures if it did not effect the overall placement of the skater, but they certainly did not hold down Beillmann although getting first did nothing for her overall standing ... In addition to the rule of marking poorly performing skaters lower, but they certainly did not mark down Poetzsch enough.

Agreed. Poetzsch should have been lower in the SP

 

[olympic]

How about Hoffman becoming a bitter old judge that did not even watch the skating, hence saying he did not see Kerrigan's 3T-3T at the Olympics. He just marked according to politics, as had been done to him.

Is this true. His mark alone changed the podium, then

 

[VGThuy]

I think to be fair to Hoffman, we also need to take the other four judges to task too.

 

[Marco]

At 2000 Worlds, there was a rumour that right after Kwan and Butyrskaya skated, someone had asked Slutskaya to dial it down a notch to ensure Butyrskaya could retain her title over Kwan (even if she were to come second to Kwan in the free). Slutskaya felt she had it in her to beat Kwan outright for the gold and therefore refused the request. The rest is history.

 

[Seerek]

Some of these really are silly rumors, but a stated conspiracy theory came from FC in 1980 that there was a German-speaking cartel (GDR, FRG, SUI, AUT) among the ladies' judges to stop Fratianne from winning and give it to Poetzsch. I think Fratianne was robbed but I can't swallow this.

FWIW, Linda didn't seem particularly interested in discussing possible conspiracies during her TSL interview.

 

[aftershocks]

No, just accurate. Or should I call him the King of Skating (except the quad), FranB?

Completely off-base and out-of-context, not to mention unfair. Your negative tagging of Todd Eldredge for not landing a successful quad in competition, is very reminiscent of a lot of people thinking that Evan Lysacek was quadless simply because he knew he didn't need to include quads in his program at the 2010 Olympics in order to win. Evan did successfully land quads during his competitive career, but few people seem to remember that fact, perhaps because they are more fixated on Evan's sans quads performances at the 2010 Olympics. During the course of Evan's career, quads were not an absolute must. They only became a must, as we know, after Plushenko's 2010 Olympics tantrum, and Patrick Chan's subsequent successful effort in mastering quads to go along with his exceptional skating skills. Chan's effort culminated in winning his first Worlds in 2011.

Todd Eldredge was a late-bloomer artistically, but he was always an exceptionally gifted jumper. Quads were becoming more important as a weapon during the latter years of Todd's career, but still they were not the be-all and end-all they have become. In any case, Todd worked extremely hard at mastering that extra revolution at a time when his career was winding down. Had he been training quads consistently (and had they been seen as crucial) earlier on in his development, he would have been one of the top guys brandishing that weapon. During the 1990s and early 2000s, quads were being landed by a few guys, but the point value did not make them a must-have.

Todd began working hard on quads a little too late in his career, mainly to try and ace an extra weapon. He was nearly there with landing his attempts consistently. As an exceptional jumper with good technique, height and rotation, I don't see any reason to believe Todd wouldn't have aced quads eventually. Had he been born at a later time, or blessed with more competitive years, coupled with good health, he would most likely have comfortably mastered a full arsenal of quads. With Todd's athleticism and his confident, cat-like ability to land jumps, it's silly to suggest otherwise, or to negatively label him. But I guess, par for the course, for those Todd-haters who have nothing else better to do.

FYI: Todd Eldredge is a three-time Olympian, a six-time U.S. National champion, a two-time U.S. silver medalist, and a six-time World medalist, including a World championship win in 1996. He is also the 1988 Junior World champion, and the 1987 Junior World silver medalist. Todd retired from eligible skating after the 2002 Olympics, eight years before the tides turned toward quads becoming essential in men's figure skating. So, the fact that Todd Eldredge was actively training quads and courageously attempting them in competition in the last several years of his career, at a time well before quads were seen as crucial, speaks volumes.

 

[aftershocks]

Slutskaya felt she had it in her to beat Kwan outright for the gold and therefore refused the request. The rest is history.

Michelle Kwan still won gold at Worlds in 2000, 2001, 2003 (adding to her 1996 and 1998 wins). Kwan would also have won hands down in 1999 had she not been under the weather, which is an excuse no skater worth their salt ever uses. And I'm not using it as an excuse either, it's simply a fact.

At 1999 Worlds, Kwan had great programs, as usual. Fate intervened for Butryskaya with her Otonal fp, and I was happy for Butryskaya's memorable and deserved redemption! It's also a fact that many in the skating community took every opportunity available to push for others to beat Kwan. And thus, that's what makes Kween's career all the more phenomenal, especially her latter three wins at Worlds!

 

[tony]

Michelle Kwan still won gold at Worlds in 2000, 2001, 2003 (adding to her 1996 and 1998 wins). Kwan would also have won hands down in 1999 had she not been under the weather, which is an excuse no skater worth their salt ever uses. And I'm not using it as an excuse either, it's simply a fact.

At 1999 Worlds, Kwan had great programs, as usual. Fate intervened for Butryskaya with her Otonal fp, and I was happy for Butryskaya's memorable and deserved redemption! It's also a fact that many in the skating community took every opportunity available to push for others to beat Kwan. And thus, that's what makes Kween's career all the more phenomenal, especially her latter three wins at Worlds!

Kwan would've had to have been spot-on in her free skate though even with a clean SP. Maria did have the skate of her life and Michelle's Ariane didn't seem to be well-received this event-- the one time she performed it in ISU-eligible competition. Remember she landed 6 triples in her free skate (some tight) and narrowly won the silver over Tatiana Malinina who had next to no choreography yet 5 wonderful triples.

I've always been curious as to whether Butyrskaya would've pulled off the short program win if Michelle went clean. I really liked Carmen (and those kicks on both toe picks!), and the judges did put her ahead of Maria two months earlier at the Japan Open when she doubled her triple toe and Maria skated clean.

 

[aftershocks]

Kwan would've had to have been spot-on in her free skate though even with a clean SP. Maria did have the skate of her life and Michelle's Ariane didn't seem to be well-received this event-- the one time she performed it in ISU-eligible competition. Remember she landed 6 triples in her free skate (some tight) and narrowly won the silver over Tatiana Malinina who had next to no choreography yet 5 wonderful triples.

I've always been curious as to whether Butyrskaya would've pulled off the short program win if Michelle went clean. I really liked Carmen (and those kicks on both toe picks!), and the judges did put her ahead of Maria two months earlier at the Japan Open when she doubled her triple toe and Maria skated clean.

Sure, as I said Butryskaya somehow seemed fated to pull off this win in retrospect. She was so passionate about skating, despite not having great support from her fed, and despite her stiff knees. All hail to those who go above and beyond their talent level, utilizing everything in their arsenal to fashion their magic moment! Otonal was an undeniably exceptionally beautiful program for Maria B.

Michelle's Ariane was an interesting program, but not necessarily the most exciting crowd-pleaser. In fact, her best and most magical performance of Ariane was at 1998 World Pros. She never reached that same level with it again. For me, Michelle's Carmen sp was different and memorable. I too loved those toe-pick kicks. Those are the moves that stand out for me in that 1999 sp after all these years, along with Maria's Otonal fp performance and win.

But yes, MK needed to skate flawlessly in both programs, which was not generally hard for her to accomplish. However, being weakened by a cold makes aceing a figure skating program a little less certain. Stuff happens. Had MK skated her sp cleanly, she would surely have been in first or second place, instead of 4th.

 

[bardtoob]

FYI: Todd Eldredge is a three-time Olympian, a six-time U.S. National champion, a two-time U.S. silver medalist, and a six-time World medalist, including a World championship win in 1996. He is also the 1988 Junior World champion, and the 1987 Junior World silver medalist. Todd retired from eligible skating after the 2002 Olympics, eight years before the tides turned toward quads becoming essential in men's figure skating. So, the fact that Todd Eldredge was actively training quads and courageously attempting them in competition in the last several years of his career, at a time well before quads were seen as crucial, speaks volumes.

Oh yeah ...

Jr. Worlds 1987 is when Rudy Galindo won.

1992 Nationals was when Todd was not on the podium but Mark Mitchell was.

1996 was when Rudy Galindo won Nationals although Todd won Worlds.

At the 1998 Olympics Kulik had a quad, and at the 2002 Olympics everybody on the podium had at least two, including Timothy Goebel.

 

[kwanette]

Todd will forever be one of my favorite skaters. He had gorgeous basics and "cat feet"..and is one of the nicest people one could meet.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Todd will forever be one of my favorite skaters. He had gorgeous basics and "cat feet"..and is one of the nicest people one could meet.

And,dare I say,the sexiest. They don't build figure skaters like that any more.

-BB

 

[aftershocks]

Oh yeah ...

Jr. Worlds 1987 is when Rudy Galindo won.

1992 Nationals was when Todd was not on the podium but Mark Mitchell was.

1996 was when Rudy Galindo won Nationals although Todd won Worlds.

At the 1998 Olympics Kulik had a quad, and at the 2002 Olympics everybody on the podium had at least two, including Timothy Goebel.

And? So what! What's your point?

 

[bardtoob]

And? So what! What's your point?

He seemed pretty vulnerable and under prepared as a competitor.