I, Tonya

[Tinami Amori]

This is a movie, not a skating event.

... and i was wondering why we're not seeing any marks or medal ceremonies...

Everyone had dresses like that back in the early 90s. It was the style of the times. But there probably many worse than that.

... you mean you're agreeing with what i said earlier? fantastic....

that was pretty bad also. but.. it was less "busy" and the "idea/geometry" was not bad, just the execution and proportions. early 90's dresses were over the top across the board, for most girls.

 

[BaileyCatts]

That's your tasteless disaster? It's gaudy and early 90s, but nowhere near as tacky and cheap as her Nationals dress: http://media.oregonlive.com/oregonian/photo/2014/01/-1d595878b94847f2.JPG

Totally agree. That 94 Olympics dress was really not that bad. I mean, it was nice. It was the 90's! I look at that picture and think "yep, that was a early 90's era dress". Although the skirt wasn't quite right on her.

But I will always believe that Tonya specifically designed that 94 Nationals purple monstrosity dress as a big "feck you" to the US judges. She had much nicer dresses that she made herself, so we know she can make nice dresses. They might not have been couture, but they were presentable, and she looked good in them. But that 94 Nationals dress .... that dress was sending a message. I'll believe that til my dying day!

 

[cmk]

... and i was wondering why we're not seeing any marks or medal ceremonies...



... you mean you're agreeing with what i said earlier? fantastic....

It wasn't just the ladies costumes that could be over the top. 90's eras ice dance costumes were really over the top. Punsalan/Swallow dressed as race cars, the Russians had some interesting choices. The ugliest (although it was considered difficult at the time) figure skating move ever has to be the besti squat.

I did watch the European ladies and though Mae Bernice Meite was undermarked. Kostner was really overmarked- she fell on the 3lutz, and had mistakes on almost everything else but still scored high. Bradley doesn't think Carolina should do the 3lutz at Olympics because the impact of missing it screwed everything else up.

I did manage to watch most of the today show. Shibutanis were on, but just modeled the Olympic uniform (team jacket, pants, shoes). I watched the rest thinking they were going to skate, but they showed a clip of one of the today hosts skating. Alex gave her a 9, Maya gave her an 8.

 

[Tinami Amori]

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/en.../anigif_enhanced-buzz-16618-1376951972-46.gif

 

[Vagabond]

I saw the movie this evening. I enjoyed it, but it is not a movie for everyone. This is a movie with some deeply flawed, even tragic, characters, told by unreliable narrators. The Tonya Harding character is no saint, and she herself at once recognizes (some of) her faults without knowing how to overcome them.

Any skating or history purists will be disappointed. The movie fudges some major facts for the sake of narrative.

Spoiler: Plot Twist

For example, the movie suggests that the IOC did not decide until after the 1992 Games to hold the next Winter Olympics in 1994. The decision was actually made several years earlier.

Margot Robbie uses two different accents as Tonya: one when she addresses the camera, and one during the flashbacks. The one where she addresses the camera is probably not even intended to be naturalistic. The one in the flashbacks isn't quite the same as Harding's actual accent, but it is very close.

Spoiler: How the Movie Treats "The Incident"

Although the movie for the most part shows the buildup from the unreliable points of view of Tonya Harding, there is a bit from a news report in which it is said that Gillooly said that Harding was in on the planning from the beginning, thus completely undercutting what the narrators have told us.

The last scene of LaVona and Tonya together was

 

[berthesghost]

I don't mind the artistic license they took with facts and dates, but two scenes that stuck out to me because they were events I'd never heard of and seemed OTT and unrealistic were the steak knife incident and the last scene with Tonya and mom. After seeking the movie I thought "why did they make that up, it doesn't even make sense and just seems sensationalized and unbelievable". Then I found out most of the script was based on recent stories Tonya told them directly. that's our Tonya!

But the one thing that they left out that I felt was classic was I swear I remember during all of the craziness and Tonya being in Norway and everyone focusing on her, Lavonna was shown on the news being taken out of her home on a stretcher after some kind of attack (trouble breathing or something) and the whole thing seemed like such disfunctional craziness. That was better than anything shown in the movie.

 

[alj5]

I quite liked the film. Casting was great, skating accuracy was better than I expected.
My favorite two performances were Allison Janney and the guy who played Shawn.

I did come away more sympathetic to Tonya. I think that the story of her (and Jeff's) involvement/knowledge was plausible. One of the scenes that struck me was towards the end when LaVona comes to see Tonya in the apartment. "You look young with your hair like that" mom says. "I'm only 23." Tonya says.

I work with a lot of young adults in my job. From the 18-22 year old corpsman away from home for the first time with a high school education and 12 weeks of medical training, to 22-25 year old Ensigns/nurses, to 25-29 year old MD residents. I came away feeling that Tonya was expected to be one of the young nurses/residents, but with the preparation/background of a corpsman.

I know that wasn't the point of the scene (yes, mom was a b..ch), but it really struck me that she was both young chronologically and even younger emotionally/developmentally. I'm glad she seems to be happy.

 

[SmallFairy]

Both Allison Janny and Margot Robby got Oscar nominations I, Tonya also got a nomination for best film editing.

 

[cmk]

Rawlinson encouraged most of her other skaters to also get an education. I don't know why she didn't do it with Tonya. I think it was the sharp edges doc where Diane said "Tonya would be nothing without skating". Tonya's mom told Tonya to make a choice between skating and school when Tonya was having trouble in high school-Tonya chose skating. She did get her ged later. Tonya's high school was also unwilling to work with her regarding her skating schedule (there were more hours of practice required back then as well because of the figures).
In contrast, when Tonia K ran into a similar problem with her original high school, Tonia's mom found a high school that would work with her and give her time to practice. Tonia K later completed college, and was a late bloomer ( I think she has to have the record for 4th place finishes at us nationals . Tonia K did go from failing to qualifying at 93 worlds to consisting being in the top 4 after 94 (usually behind Michelle, Tara, and Nicole), and did do well enough at worlds to keep all 3 spots in 98 after both Tara and Nicole withdrew.

 

[Yazmeen]

Totally agree. That 94 Olympics dress was really not that bad. I mean, it was nice. It was the 90's! I look at that picture and think "yep, that was a early 90's era dress". Although the skirt wasn't quite right on her.

But I will always believe that Tonya specifically designed that 94 Nationals purple monstrosity dress as a big "feck you" to the US judges. She had much nicer dresses that she made herself, so we know she can make nice dresses. They might not have been couture, but they were presentable, and she looked good in them. But that 94 Nationals dress .... that dress was sending a message. I'll believe that til my dying day!

Gee, since you seem to be suggesting she threw caution to the wind wearing that dress: I wonder if she would have worn it if there was no whack and Nancy was competing...

 

[berthesghost]

Both Allison Janny and Margot Robby got Oscar nominations I, Tonya also got a nomination for best film editing.

Just saw that too! Which pretty much aligns with everything I said here. No noms for picture, director or screen play.

 

[Yazmeen]

Just saw that too! Which pretty much aligns with everything I said here. No noms for picture, director or screen play.

And amazing how it got a nomination for editing considering it was so OBVIOUSLY poorly edited by students or interns according to one of our "experts" here...

 

[berthesghost]

And amazing how it got a nomination for editing considering it was so OBVIOUSLY poorly edited by students or interns according to one of our "experts" here...

Yes, I literally when I read that

 

[bardtoob]

Tonya's mom told Tonya to make a choice between skating and school when Tonya was having trouble in high school-Tonya chose skating.

When someone is so natural at something so hard as skating, it probably gave her little tolerance for the effort required to succeeded at something that does not come so naturally, especially as a teenager.

 

[berthesghost]

Totally agree. That 94 Olympics dress was really not that bad. I mean, it was nice. It was the 90's! I look at that picture and think "yep, that was a early 90's era dress". Although the skirt wasn't quite right on her.

But I will always believe that Tonya specifically designed that 94 Nationals purple monstrosity dress as a big "feck you" to the US judges. She had much nicer dresses that she made herself, so we know she can make nice dresses. They might not have been couture, but they were presentable, and she looked good in them. But that 94 Nationals dress .... that dress was sending a message. I'll believe that til my dying day!

the oly dress was classic 80s/90s and very much like those worn by Elaine, Debi, Jill, Kristi, Surya, Tara etc... of all the things that went wrong in Norway, the costume wasn’t one of them. Tara was regularly made fun of in the press for her costume choices, yet she not only won medals with them on but now sits in the broadcast booth criticizing other skaters’ costumes like she’s on “fashion police” or something. In other words: the judges don’t care anywhere near as much as tonya keeps saying they did. If you want to win, land the damn jumps. Anyone who insists Nancy was handed titles because she wore nice costumes seriously needs to rewatch the ladies LP from Lillehammer.

 

[pixie cut]

I realize I'm late weighing in on Tonya's dress malfunction at 93 nationals, but I don't think the issue was her undoing the dress as she skated her short program. Some people thought she deliberately didn't fasten it correctly to begin with. I believe the dress had a double fastener as a safety precaution so that if one clasp undid there was a back up. She only did one of the two fasteners. I think what Morry was insinuating was the Tonya wanted to delay the start of her program so she created a diversion.

 

[VGThuy]

The problem with that 1994 Olympic dress was that it was so personality-less and so un-Tonya.

 

[Yazmeen]

I realize I'm late weighing in on Tonya's dress malfunction at 93 nationals, but I don't think the issue was her undoing the dress as she skated her short program. Some people thought she deliberately didn't fasten it correctly to begin with. I believe the dress had a double fastener as a safety precaution so that if one clasp undid there was a back up. She only did one of the two fasteners. I think what Morry was insinuating was the Tonya wanted to delay the start of her program so she created a diversion.

I cannot attest to what really happened, and while Morry does look like a jerk bringing this up now, it would be incredibly stupid of him to keep telling this story if he didn't have SOMETHING more than just his own opinion that points to it being a deliberate action on Tonya's part.

He could just simply be a jerk; but again, to borrow from Roseanne Roseannadanna, it was "always something" with Tonya.

 

[VGThuy]

I think Morry is allowing his frustrations with actually dealing with Tonya (especially after the 1992 Olympics) and always having something come up with her and the post-whack narrative of how the whole world was against her to cloud his judgment on that particular incident.

 

[Vagabond]

the oly dress was classic 80s/90s and very much like those worn by Elaine, Debi, Jill, Kristi, Surya, Tara etc... of all the things that went wrong in Norway, the costume wasn’t one of them. Tara was regularly made fun of in the press for her costume choices, yet she not only won medals with them on but now sits in the broadcast booth criticizing other skaters’ costumes like she’s on “fashion police” or something. In other words: the judges don’t care anywhere near as much as tonya keeps saying they did. If you want to win, land the damn jumps. Anyone who insists Nancy was handed titles because she wore nice costumes seriously needs to rewatch the ladies LP from Lillehammer.

One of the most fascinating scenes for me was one in which the Tonya Harding character confronts a judge and asks why she is marked so low when she's got the jumps and the judge says that they also care about presentation. Tonya then says something about not being able to afford fancy dresses. Other than when there's a costume violation (and, as mentioned upthread, one of Tonya's dresses did violate the rules), presentation was not about dresses. If this is scene is based on what Harding told interviewers, then she either (1) still really doesn't understand what the second mark measured/measures or (2) doesn't want to admit that her presentation skills weren't up to snuff.

 

[VGThuy]

I think Tonya internalized a lot of the catty, backstage gossip as she rose through the skating ranks growing up and her mother enforced that attitude by saying nothing they did was good enough for the establishment. I can see more local skating clubs and such making bigger deals about it as a way to undermine Tonya's confidence and/or simply because they were that snotty. I also think individual higher-ups at the USFS and Diane with her need to remake Tonya to make her presentable did not help matters. I could see that once Tonya got a bit of success those things didn't matter so much until she started losing to Nancy and it all came crashing back as if that was the only thing that caused Nancy to beat Tonya.

This is why I think people shouldn't underestimate what a big deal it is to win Nationals. Getting there out of the huge pool that you started with growing up and learning to skate and started competing and dealing with all the internal attitudes, prejudices, and cliques and etc. can some times be harder than international competitions because once you're represented by the US, that's all they see really. International panels don't have the same baggage that local ones and even national ones may have. That said, if you can show you work hard and can bring the hardware, then I can see national officials caring less about the other stuff.

 

[Yazmeen]

^^^THIS!

Every time Tonya (and her defenders) bring up the tiresome "the Association and the judges were against me/her" argument, I offer one big counterargument: Rudy Galindo.

Let's be frank, the "Association" wasn't in love with him either, nor were the judges. But instead of blaming everything on his tough upbringing, losing his pairs partner with whom he was really shining, the losses of his father, brother and coaches, actually living in a trailer and having no money for expert coaching, he decided to work his butt off and take one more shot at glory. And with a stellar pair of programs at 1996 Nationals, he was rewarded over the Association's favorite and took home a National championship for the skate of his life. He showed he could work hard and bring the hardware, leading to World bronze, a great pro career where he was a beloved fan favorite, and now he's a respected coach.

I can't help but wonder what could have been had Tonya shut out the outside voices, buckled down, stayed in shape, and worked her ass off and gotten her triple axel consistent again in 1993. I think she would have smoked Nancy in both 1993 and 1994 Nationals and possibly been the one on the 1994 Olympic podium. But of course, it didn't happen. And nothing that went wrong for her during that time period was her fault, of course...

 

[Vagabond]

I can't help but wonder what could have been had Tonya shut out the outside voices, buckled down, stayed in shape, and worked her ass off and gotten her triple axel consistent again in 1993. I think she would have smoked Nancy in both 1993 and 1994 Nationals and possibly been the one on the 1994 Olympic podium. But of course, it didn't happen. And nothing that went wrong for her during that time period was her fault, of course...

That portion of the film dealing with this period suggests that she was aware that she was partly responsible for her own predicament but didn't know how to banish her inner demons.

 

[Inessence]

I think going through a tumultuous divorce in 1993 was a huge emotional and physical distraction.

 

[Winnipeg]

Tonya's hair also was not great. I think, however, it is the 80/90 style I am assessing rather than her hair specifically because her hair looked nice on the documentary.

I never minded Tara's dresses. ?!

 

[skatfan]

Tonya's hair also was not great. I think, however, it is the 80/90 style I am assessing rather than her hair specifically because her hair looked nice on the documentary.

I never minded Tara's dresses. ?!

Kristi's hair was a mess too. That over-permed stuff was everywhere!

 

[Winnipeg]

Yes, the hair styles of the day don't seem attractive today!

 

[Yazmeen]

Kristi's hair was a mess too. That over-permed stuff was everywhere!

Oh, God, the frizzy ponytail. Blech...

 

[meggonzo]

If you want to win, land the damn jumps. Anyone who insists Nancy was handed titles because she wore nice costumes seriously needs to rewatch the ladies LP from Lillehammer.

I don't think anyone questions her medal from Lillehammer (only to say she should have won gold), it's 92 Olys, 92 Worlds, 93 Nats, etc. that were the problem.

 

[berthesghost]

I don't think anyone questions her medal from Lillehammer (only to say she should have won gold), it's 92 Olys, 92 Worlds, 93 Nats, etc. that were the problem.

wait.. people think Tonya didn’t medal in France not because she fell in the SP under 6.0 but because they think 9 different judges from various countries and cultures all agreed that Nancy’s neon yellow Costume was prettier? that’s the funniest thing I’ve ever heard!
Gosh, Nancy must have been furious when her black Vera Wang costume cost her a medal in Prague