Skate Canada won’t host Alberta events due to sports gender law

[MacMadame]

So if born female athletes take testosteron to increase their strength it's doping but if a man identifies himself as women he/she is acepted? Are there no rules about testosterone levels from WADA? Can a man's testosterone level be lowered enough by transgendering to match a woman's?

No, that's not how it works. There are testosterone limits for every sport for the female category at the elite/international level.

Why not do a quick Google search instead of pearl-clutching?

The way I see it, if it isn't an issue for kids before they hit puberty, then why not just require that all competitions below a certain level (novice, pre-novice?) be mixed-gender categories? Seems like that would be a lot easier on competition organizers - less judges/officials if you have 1 event instead of 2 per category/level.

You mean like already happens in many domestic competitions for many of the categories?

As an adult ice dancer, I not only competed against men but against little girls -- which is a lot more unfair as they usually won unless they were really bad because they were "so cute." Yes, a judge at a competition said that to me after I lost to a cute kid who made mistakes when I did not. (The only time I won against a kid was when one kid was completely off the beat the entire dance. )

 

[Kiki5375]

No, that's not how it works. There are testosterone limits for every sport for the female category at the elite/international level.

Why not do a quick Google search instead of pearl-clutching?

Well I did google it and I did not find anything about testosteron level for transgender women. I am trying to understand so this was an honest question since so many of you seem to know everything about the medical aspect of this topic.
Thank you for your polite info though

 

[kwanfan1818]

Well I did google it and I did not find anything about testosteron level for transgender women.

There aren't testosterone levels for transgender women. There are testosterone levels for women, where there are women's categories. All women need to meet them.

 

[tangerine dream]

The way I see it, if it isn't an issue for kids before they hit puberty, then why not just require that all competitions below a certain level (novice, pre-novice?) be mixed-gender categories? Seems like that would be a lot easier on competition organizers - less judges/officials if you have 1 event instead of 2 per category/level.

I can't see them doing that. It's already hard enough to keep boys in the sport as they tend to get made fun of. Competing against girls and losing to them is hardly going to help.

 

[kwanfan1818]

In ballet, another pursuit in which young boys are greatly outnumbered by girls and because of which their peers can make their lives hell, the trend has long been to have separate boys' classes with male teachers.

Every time I see a recital where the young students have to have bunny tails attached to their tights because that makes them "too cute," I want to hurt someone.

 

[gkelly]

The way I see it, if it isn't an issue for kids before they hit puberty, then why not just require that all competitions below a certain level (novice, pre-novice?) be mixed-gender categories? Seems like that would be a lot easier on competition organizers - less judges/officials if you have 1 event instead of 2 per category/level.

At these nonqualifying levels, everyone who signs up for a local competition before registration closes gets to compete.

Across the whole competition, the total number of competitors would be the same regardless of whether there are multiple separate small and medium-sized events at each level or just one big event for everyone who registered at that level.

The total number of skaters would be the same, so the total number of official-hours would be the same, and therefore pretty much the same number of officials.

What might be different is that with more large events and fewer small ones, it would be less convenient to offer officials reasonable-length breaks. For each large event, they'd either be on or off. Which might require more officials total to make sure no one has to be on the stand for two or more large events in a row, with maybe a resurface in between if they're lucky.

 

[Orm Irian]

I can't see them doing that. It's already hard enough to keep boys in the sport as they tend to get made fun of. Competing against girls and losing to them is hardly going to help.

If a small boy's ego is so fragile that he can't handle losing to a person with a different set of genitals, he doesn't need a protected category to compete in, he needs better parenting.

 

[overedge]

I get the sense that a lot of these people shrieking about men "pretending to be women" and invading women's changing rooms have never actually been in a women's changing room.

Guess what?

1) There are women and girls who were born female and have never been anything other than females who also don't want other women to see their bodies. They could be shy, they could feel there is something "wrong" with some part of their body, there could be any number of reasons. In women's changing rooms, women who feel this way tend to get changed in the corners, with a towel or something else draped over them, or in the toilet stall where they can shut the door and have some privacy. No one is running around showing off their body.

Another thing that men tend not to understand: there are no urinals or other fixtures in women's changing room that require the users to show their genitalia. Women do their business in stalls with closed doors.

2) Changing rooms are for changing. Usually every woman or girl in there is changing their clothing as fast as they can so they can go do something else. Despite what you might have seen in porno films, women generally don't hang around in the nude for a long time in there. And a lot of changing rooms at rinks are smelly (thanks, hockey players) and cold, which are also incentives to get in and out as quickly as possible.

3) If someone in a women's changing room is acting inappropriately, like staring intently at other women's bodies for a long time or making questionable comments, you can bet that word will get around very quickly to watch out for that person. Or if their behaviour is really unsettling, they might get reported to the rink management, their coach, or their club. Women generally don't put up with that kind of behaviour in changing rooms because they get more than enough of that sh*t in the rest of the world.

So the idea that a man "pretending to be a woman" is going to go into a women's changing room and wave their junk around in front of everyone and traumatize them is just ridiculous.

 

[fsfann]

Unlike a lot of trans athletic rules, under Skate Canada's rules, such a person would not have to medically transition at all to compete with women in domestic competitions, so they would have a physical advantage. But, what are the odds of such a thing happening, especially if they want to qualify for international competitions where the rules are different?

And should the concern about your hypothetical sitiuation dictate everything when most trans skaters won't be in such a position? Should it really be all or nothing? Is that fair? Do we deny trans girls who have not gone through puberty and have not medically transitioned the opportunity to compete as girls even if it makes them feel even more distressed and excluded than they already feel? If there isn't a physical advantage pre-puberty, maybe the younger kids really should all just skate together - male and female - as has been suggested. What about the more recreational adults who aren't competing for funding and just want to enjoy the sport, be who they are, and feel welcome in figure skating? Why exclude trans women from that? Maybe there should just be just one singles category for them as well?

What are the odds? I have no idea. But if someone really wants to go to the Olympics and could do so by identifying as a different gender, then it is certainly within the realm of being a possibility. Especially if they don't have the technical chops to compete in the men's category when it comes to technical content.

 

[Kateri]

What are the odds? I have no idea. But if someone really wants to go to the Olympics and could do so by identifying as a different gender, then it is certainly within the realm of being a possibility. Especially if they don't have the technical chops to compete in the men's category when it comes to technical content.

It is not possible unless that person is willing to spend several years becoming, to all intents and purposes, biologically female. This is not something that men are willing to do, even for sport.

I don't have a link, but iirc, not too long ago, some right-wingers tried to do a reality show or something that would follow some men who were going to pretend they were trans, and enter women's competitions. As soon as the men were told what they'd have to do, in order to be allowed to compete, and the effect it would have on their bodies, they all dropped out, and the idea was cancelled.

This. Is. Not. A Thing. That. Happens.

 

[Allskate]

What are the odds? I have no idea. But if someone really wants to go to the Olympics and could do so by identifying as a different gender, then it is certainly within the realm of being a possibility.

Once again, Skate Canada's rules apply only to domestic competitions, not international ones. Simply identifying as female will not allow them to compete as a woman at the Olympics. But, competing as a woman at domestic competitions would prevent them from competing internationally as a male skater.

I get the sense that a lot of these people shrieking about men "pretending to be women" and invading women's changing rooms have never actually been in a women's changing room.

I don't see a lot of people in this thread shrieking about changing rooms. Maybe I have them on ignore. I find that feature useful.

 

[MacMadame]

It is not possible unless that person is willing to spend several years becoming, to all intents and purposes, biologically female. This is not something that men are willing to do, even for sport.

Which has been stated several times by several people in this thread. At this point, we aren't dealing with a good-faith argument.

I don't have a link, but iirc, not too long ago, some right-wingers tried to do a reality show or something that would follow some men who were going to pretend they were trans, and enter women's competitions. As soon as the men were told what they'd have to do, in order to be allowed to compete, and the effect it would have on their bodies, they all dropped out, and the idea was cancelled.

It was Ben Shapiro and the rest of the Daily Wire and they didn't drop the idea entirely. They turned the movie into a "comedy" because conservatives are obsessed with this idea and they refused to drop it even after being given hard proof that it's stupid and doesn't happen.